Contractor problems

2,045 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by CapCity12thMan
Dark_Knight
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7:52a, 9/21/22
AG
Has anyone had experience with firing a contractor from a job, and them trying get money they don't deserve and being unwilling to negotiate on price for services already rendered, even though they messed up?

I've already lawyered up, but just wanted to see how other home owners have fared in a similar situation.
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tgivaughn
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7:58a, 9/21/22
AG
Vicariously?
Yes, indeed in Aggieland
IMHO and am sticking to it
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to tgivaughn • 9:02a, 9/21/22
AG
tgivaughn said:
Vicariously?
Yes, indeed in Aggieland


How'd it go for you?
The contractor was terminated because they didn't do what we asked in framing a new bathroom. They also left a water leak, propane leak, and exposed live electrical wiring after they did some demo work. There were some other things, but those were the biggest issues.

They wanted 50% of the contract, which is punitive and is illegal. There are some other underhanded and shady things they tried to do as well, in particular with the total project costs. Now they've lawyered up and are asking for even more money through these different statutes and acts.

I'm just worried this will have to go to court, since this contractor is an ass.
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tamufan
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9:05a, 9/21/22
Of course we now want to know who is the contractor. Especially me; I am in the market for a contractor, as it were. But the ongoing litigation probably prevents you from saying.... And perhaps the moderators.
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to tamufan • 9:06a, 9/21/22
AG
tamufan said:
Of course we now want to know who is the contractor. Especially me; I am in the market for a contractor, as it were. But the ongoing litigation probably prevents you from saying.... And perhaps the moderators.


Unless you're in the Midlothian/Waxahachie area, I don't think you'll need to worry.
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planoaggie123
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 9:22a, 9/21/22
AG
Sorry to hear. The one positive I gather is that you have not "over-paid" at this point...if correct...good for you. That is a common mistake.

I have only had to fire one contractor but that was due to him flooding our house and we got insurance involved immediately and his insurance covered all costs. The guy was actually fairly nice about it.

Sorry...not much help...shocked this guy is lawyering up...do you agree you owe any money (but less than his claims) or believe you owe no money?
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to planoaggie123 • 9:50a, 9/21/22
AG
planoaggie123 said:
Sorry to hear. The one positive I gather is that you have not "over-paid" at this point...if correct...good for you. That is a common mistake.

I have only had to fire one contractor but that was due to him flooding our house and we got insurance involved immediately and his insurance covered all costs. The guy was actually fairly nice about it.

Sorry...not much help...shocked this guy is lawyering up...do you agree you owe any money (but less than his claims) or believe you owe no money?


I agree I owe some money for sure. We've offered to pay for what was already done, minus the cost to fix it since the framing was done incorrectly and they never did any drawings. We've tried to come to the table, but they refuse and think we should pay them a crap ton more money they didn't earn.
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planoaggie123
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 9:54a, 9/21/22
AG
Sounds like you are doing the right thing and he is being an ass and maybe has poorly bid a few other jobs and trying to make up for it.

Hopefully logic / reason will win out....max maybe using an arbitrator which would have an independent view on the situation and rule reasonably....an incomplete job does not earn one profit....profit is at the end...costs should be covered and that is all.
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mrmill3218
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 10:08a, 9/21/22
AG
Dark_Knight said:
Has anyone had experience with firing a contractor from a job, and them trying get money they don't deserve and being unwilling to negotiate on price for services already rendered, even though they messed up?

I've already lawyered up, but just wanted to see how other home owners have fared in a similar situation.
Where are you located? I have a renovation company and would love to take a look at your project.

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tgivaughn
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10:16a, 9/21/22
AG
If you have lawyered up, then he/she will explain all the swords & shields you have to pound as the lines form for battle. For the other side, all this SOP; hopefully you chose wisely a construction-savvy one ... the yelling & pounding chests Phase 1 that is not too costly.

Phase 2 I remember as you having to pony up $10 if going to court to let "Daddy" decide who's the winner & how much. The other side might be on retainer, so it doesn't sting so much but they also carry that reputation into court.

Phase 3 is where you win but out of those proceeds the lawyer needs a lot of it, if not most of it.

Aggieland history is so full of roll-the-dice spec.house cracking foundations on volatile clay "supporting" soils that many fix-it businesses prospered. Some spec.house builders were used to paying $10,000 to them via the Owners, just to settle out of court. Today's settlement amounts IDK.

Sorry you got a bum steer from a friend, Realtor, banker, trusted group as member but some other reference sources might be

Those that inspect the work, outside of City Code limitations = residential architects & engineers TX-licensed & free of referring friends

Hire a licensed home inspector to a) select a builder then b) inspect all work prior to closing

BBB ratings, although these have become watered down by white collar mgt this decade

Google/other ratings (not self-serving Yelp!) although these are not in-the-biz and know what to look for
IMHO and am sticking to it
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CapCity12thMan
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11:40a, 9/21/22
AG
Yes. I called out my contractor for some substandard work - while they were doing it and gave them a chance to fix it. They decided to terminate the contract, and then subsequently filed a mechanic's lien to get paid the full contract amount.

How much money are you talking about they think they are owed? Going straight to a lawyer needs to make financial sense here, as. that will be expensive.

The whole mechanic's lien process requires certain tings with the contract and transactions for it to hold water.

EDIT here is link from an attorney who is on the construction side of the house...this sort of outlines how a contractor should go about things, so arm yourself with this to know what is going on: https://loveinribman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Texas-Lien-Law-Summary-2022.pdf

EDIT 2 - this whole "filed a mechanic's lien" was an empty threat. When they did it we immediately lawyered up and spent a few thousand dollars for some letters back and forth that really didn't amount to anything. The period to move forward with the lien expired, and after that I contacted the company (who was under new ownership at the time), and we signed a lien release to get it off country records.

So...my advice - wait until this contractor actually does something before spending money on lawyers. Whenever you do come to an agreement on what he is to be paid - if you do - get him to sign a lien waiver saying all bills paid...this protects you from him walking out with your money and having an avenue to come back at you for more...or if it is not a lien waiver - some other document to basically end all transactions - your lawyer should help you here.
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Dark_Knight
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12:31p, 9/21/22
AG
I appreciate all the input.

I did have to lawyer up because they were refusing to work with us. At first they wanted $9800 on top of the work done, which is ridiculous. Now, they sent a letter from their lawyer asking for $21k, just pulling numbers out of the blue.

There's more to it and difficult to get it all explained here.

It's a company so they have deeper pockets, so we'll see what happens. Everything they've done has felt like scare tactics.

Regardless, what they're doing and asking for is ridiculous and possibly illegal. I'll let the lawyer hash it out. I'm prepared to take this as far as I can, I'm not going to be bullied.
Because I'm Batman!

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Milwaukees Best Light
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5:25p, 9/21/22
AG
Just because they are a company does not mean they have deep pockets. They might be cash strapped and delaying them long enough for their attorney to burn through the retainer might do them in.
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JBLHAG03
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10:12p, 9/21/22
AG
If there are no drawings, how do you know they didn't frame it right and/or how can you prove they didn't frame it right.

As far as legal battles are concerned, it's not what you know but what you can prove.
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to JBLHAG03 • 10:47p, 9/21/22
AG
Because there are no drawings for one, two there isn't enough space to account for shower, toilet, and a sink. We also asked for space for small storage. Where the sink should have gone in as was discussed, the shower door would hit it. I measured things myself after the fact and discovered their mistake, then they tried to come back and tell me there was never going to be a sink in the new bathroom......how do you not have a sink? The stupidity of these people and the lack of preparation is astounding.

What I can prove is that they messed up and didn't do what we asked, evaded our requests for adequate project costs, and left hazards after they did demo work. All of it reason enough for us to fire them.
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Agthatbuilds
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 7:51a, 9/22/22
Dark_Knight said:
Has anyone had experience with firing a contractor from a job, and them trying get money they don't deserve and being unwilling to negotiate on price for services already rendered, even though they messed up?

I've already lawyered up, but just wanted to see how other home owners have fared in a similar situation.


Do you have a contract with said contractor?
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to Agthatbuilds • 11:29a, 9/22/22
AG
Yup. That still doesn't mean much.
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Agthatbuilds
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 11:42a, 9/22/22
Dark_Knight said:
Yup. That still doesn't mean much.


All my contracts spell out how to fire me or for me to fire the client, what payments are due when, agreed upon standards of work, notices of deficiency and curative time lines.

Wrong emoji. Sorry
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to Agthatbuilds • 11:53a, 9/22/22
AG
Their contract said for a written notice, which I did. It had been over 30 days since they had even been to the house and did anything. I had asked repeatedly for a comprehensive break down of prices, but they never gave us that info until months later and that was the last straw.
They wanted up to 50% of the contract price for termination, which is illegal, but we arent even in agreement over the price because they lied about the project price.


All the work they ever did was some demo work and framing for a new bathroom, which was little more that 6' x 6'. Hardly worth the ~$13k they were originally trying to get from us, definitely not worth $21k theyre trying to collect now. The entire project itself isn't worth $20k, but they tried to tell us it would in total cost over $30K, meanwhile, they were going to charge insurance $36K. So they were trying to double dip.
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bmcghee03
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10:02p, 9/27/22
AG
Any updates on this Dark Knight?

Long time lurker here, and on the subcontractor side of home building. What they are doing is definitely punitive. Fortunately in my experience Texas Law is very, very favorable to homeowners in home renovation disputes. With regards to the lien experience. I have learned through unfortunate experiences that if very, very precise deadlines and communication are not followed to a T it is about 1/50 that a contractor actually successfully files a lien that sticks. If you say they took months to even send you documents, I doubt they are following through on the rigorous lien process. A lawyer would likely shut any lien down very quickly. At that point based on the project cost and what the contractors expenses were it likely won't make sense for him to continue to pursue it.

If you're in the Dallas area by chance and need referrals for someone to continue the project once resolved feel free to reach out via PM! As a sub I work with alllllll different types of GC's see the good and the bad!
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CapCity12thMan
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In reply to bmcghee03 • 9:23a, 9/28/22
AG

Quote:
I have learned through unfortunate experiences that if very, very precise deadlines and communication are not followed to a T it is about 1/50 that a contractor actually successfully files a lien that sticks.
this part is true, although they seem like such technicalities I would be hesitant as a homeowner that they hold enough water to make the process fall over.

for example, one of the criteria is that BOTH spouses (if both are named owners of the property) must sign a contract in order for a lien to be exercised on it. As such, I never have my wife sign anything contractual with work done on the house...in our previous lien experience, we both signed. If it were to happen again, would this one little technicality void the lien? I don't know and hope I don't ever again have to find out.
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Agthatbuilds
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In reply to CapCity12thMan • 10:35a, 9/28/22
CapCity12thMan said:

Quote:
I have learned through unfortunate experiences that if very, very precise deadlines and communication are not followed to a T it is about 1/50 that a contractor actually successfully files a lien that sticks.
this part is true, although they seem like such technicalities I would be hesitant as a homeowner that they hold enough water to make the process fall over.

for example, one of the criteria is that BOTH spouses (if both are named owners of the property) must sign a contract in order for a lien to be exercised on it. As such, I never have my wife sign anything contractual with work done on the house...in our previous lien experience, we both signed. If it were to happen again, would this one little technicality void the lien? I don't know and hope I don't ever again have to find out.


That's what I've been told. Both spouses need to sign and it needs to be notarized to enforce a lien. Never tried it though.
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bmcghee03
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In reply to CapCity12thMan • 12:51p, 9/28/22
AG
In most cases where the mortgage is signed by both spouses the short answer is yes, it would voin the lien. It doesn't necessarily mean the contractor couldn't sue you as the lien process is not the only means of recovery in construction/home improvement.

But in most cases, if a contractor does work in an occupied home and are at the point of trying to final a lien, they are pretty much screwed. The lien wouldn't pay until the house sells.

90% of the time the "Notice of Intent to File Lien" is really just a scare tactic to get you to pay.

(obviously we are all Aggies here and would never use this to our advantage to not pay a bill where work was performed adequately).

On one hand people like inexpensive contractors but it's those guys who don't have the overhead of attorney's, office staff sending invoices in a timely manner, etc. that end up getting screwed by homeowners who know these laws in and out
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CapCity12thMan
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In reply to bmcghee03 • 1:53p, 9/28/22
AG

Quote:
90% of the time the "Notice of Intent to File Lien" is really just a scare tactic to get you to pay.

this was my experience except they actually did file it, but THEN never did anything to foreclose on it. According to the law they had one year to do so. In that span of one year, they handed the business over to the son, who I actually thought in mediation he was being reasonable but his parents wouldn't listen to him. I contacted him to sign a lien release and we are done. The lien and release are still on record in Travis county though but should not be an issue during the sale.

In short I had a long list of work that wasn't done in a workmanlike fashion (or to code) and when I called them on it, in an effort to get them to fix it before going any further - they terminated....and THEN did the lien thing...for the full amount of the contract when they weren't but 75% finished.

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