I think I'm getting screwed

3,733 Views | 41 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by ABATTBQ11
Ag_07
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AG
So fence company is supposed to get started on a new wooden fence at the house next week. I signed the contract over a month ago. They were back logged and that's why the delay.

Well today he emails me and says that due to mills shutting down and a low supply of materials that the cost is going to increase by $2 per foot.

Now part of me wants to tell him to go pound sand and that I signed a contract for $24 per foot.l and that's what it should be done. Hell at $26 I probably don't choose him for the job. But at the same time I don't wanna a crappy fence job because he's pissed off at me.

Is it typical for a companies to do this and should I be fighting this? For the record I do believe him because I've had issue finding wood for other projects around the house I just don't think it's fair.
Canyon99
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Does your contract mention anything regarding an increase in cost of materials versus the contract amount? If not, I'd respond that he can do it for $24 linear foot as agreed upon in the contract.
Ag_07
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Nope

And I think that's why I'm inclined to say that he needs to honor the contract and if not then he needs to let me out and I need to reassess my other bids.
planoaggie123
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As mentioned make sure no clause for material rate increases but at minimum i would get another quote or two before you finalize your decision. I would be concerned about him trying ot make up costs as the project goes on if you get him back down to the original quote.
planoaggie123
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Him changing the price has already gotten you out of the original contract so you are good there....not a lawyer but i think i remember that from Mr. Swim's class
Canyon99
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Good point. Sounds like this guy would cheap out in other areas to make up the additional $2.
planoaggie123
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...i apparently have lots of thoughts on this...

That $2 just eats into his margin. He will still do fine on the job. I am guessing there are not a TON of people shelling out $thousands on a fence in this economic environment so he should want your money if i had to guess but could be wrong...
Ag_07
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So after looking back at the other quotes I got and comparing that with the new price it looks like it's only gonna be $100 over the lowest quote.

It's not right but it's not worth saving $100 to have others come requote since it's been over 30 days and basically starting all over at square one.

So yes...I am getting screwed but not bad enough to deal with the headache of restarting the process
ABATTBQ11
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planoaggie123 said:

...i apparently have lots of thoughts on this...

That $2 just eats into his margin. He will still do fine on the job. I am guessing there are not a TON of people shelling out $thousands on a fence in this economic environment so he should want your money if i had to guess but could be wrong...


Oddly enough, I've anecdotally seen a **** ton of new fences going up recently. It seems like their business must be booming, at least here.


Also, OP should demand he do it at the quoted price. It's on him for a) not getting to it sooner and b) not having language in his contract to cover his ***.

ETA just saw OP's last post. Ask him to meet you in the middle. He quoted $24 and you have every right to hold him to it. Going up from there is doing him a favor. If you're willing to go up, he should be willing to go down.
Ag_07
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Yeah I thought about that too.

Like I said I'm skeptical about holding him to it because I'm afraid of the final product I'll get. Whether it's skimping on nails, not setting the post deep enough, or cutting corners on other materials.

And yeah fence companies are busy as hell here. People are spending more time at home and not wanting to look at their old fences and realizing they need new ones.
nhamp07
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AG
Just offer to split the difference and go $1 per foot.
BrazosDog02
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AG
1.). Forcing you into a different price voids the contract.

2.). If you force him to eat the extra cost, he will make up the difference somewhere else. If it's enough money for him to risk pissing you off by asking you to pay it, then it's enough to figure out how to recover another way.

3.) **** happens. Maybe he didn't want to have a truckload of material sitting on your driveway for two months while he got to the project. Maybe he got behind from rain. Maybe he sucks as scheduling. Maybe his crew got COVID. I don't know but bear in mind there is possibly a reason it came to this.

4.). Did I understand you to say his new price is $100 bucks over your CHEAPEST bid? how cheap was this guy? Sounds like the lower end of your bid pool, so, maybe that explains stuff above.

You'll just have to weigh the factors. If it were me, I would never ask a customer to eat more money than agreed. If I HAD to do that then I would be up front about it and explain it and ask him how he wished to proceed. If it was really a "**** happens" scenario then I have to lay it out there and see if my customer wants to work through it with me. If he told me to pound sand then I'd have to decide how to recoup that cost, kill the deal, or whatever I needed to do to make it work. For me, I do have situations that create tight margins that may put me at risk for a situation but I also usually have some jobs that are very profitable that allow me to eat it and offset that scenario if needed.

Crappy situation.
ABATTBQ11
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Guy could have also bid low intending to get the job, then ask for more.
Comeby!
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I doubt this is a 50' linear foot fence so the incremental is much more than $100. Read the contract, tell him to eat it what corner is he going to cut to make that up? Nails? A sack a concrete or two? Just be there during the construction. They still will try to maximize their board on board overlap. Just supervise and call Bs when something looks dumb.
txag2008
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Where are you finding anyone to install at $24/ft (or $26 for that matter). Assuming this is your typical 6 ft backyard cedar fence, $24-26 is questionably low.
713_Ag
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I just had a 6 ft cedar fence with rot board installed in Houston for $19/ft. That included trash haul off
jtraggie99
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txag2008 said:

Where are you finding anyone to install at $24/ft (or $26 for that matter). Assuming this is your typical 6 ft backyard cedar fence, $24-26 is questionably low.
I assume it's side-by-side and not board on board. That would be ridiculously low for board on board.

I'm actually in a similar boat. I was scheduled to have my fence replaced in March. Then everything went south and I put it on hold. I contacted my contractor a few weeks ago and told him I was ready to go. He mentioned that material prices had gone up some recently, but they would honor the price we had previously agreed to. They did not have to do that, as the initial time frame had expired, but I was thankful they did.
Comeby!
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Not typical they would honor it. Ultimately they have one fence to install so there's not much of a repeat customer market. Well other than reviews and word of mouth.
fka ftc
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Lumber prices just shot through the roof recently. We knew is was coming, but we got our 07/08 increases from lumber supplier and depending on material increases were 30%-50% higher on average. We are a small builder but purchase $250k+ per month on average. I would suspect retail prices that most small fence guys are paying have gone up even more.

As others have said above, holding him to that price is going to be one unhappy contractor and he will save in other areas. Sounds like he is being fair in the increase, and I can assure you the increase in material costs is absolutely valid.

For you and the contractor, would be best to have an expiry on the contract if work doesn't start within 30 or 60 days. If prices had gone the other direction and you were aware, you would want the option to reprice lower.
toolshed
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Guy could have also bid low intending to get the job, then ask for more.
While there are contractors out there that are unscrupulous, this likely is not the case.

Also, OP, you aren't being "screwed" as you want to call it. Being screwed would be if he did the work, then said, "By the way, materials cost more so I'm charging you more". He was honest, told you up front there was an increase in materials, likely more than he could absorb, and came to you to let you know this.

Lumber, as mentioned, has seen pricing increases through the roof and shortages of materials, especially in the pressure treated materials. Covid shutdowns have caused shortages on lumber, and with the added processes for pressure treating, delays are even longer and prices, as with all supply and demand, have increased due to high demand and low supply.

4x4x8's that were in the mid $7 range a few months ago are now mid $12. 2x4x16's that we use for rails are around $12 ea vs $7-8 range. Cedar has also seen an increase.

Should contracts be written to account for this sort of thing? Yes. Should contractors just eat exorbitant materials increases? No. And I'd say the fact that he came to you first to explain things says he's trying to do the right thing. If you don't have to replace your fence now, wait until pricing goes back down. I guarantee the other bids you got will likely not be good with the increases in materials. They will want to rebid them accordingly.

As a contractor who makes it a practice to give a price and stick to it, unless the customer changes the scope, or something like this happens to the market, I find if frustrating that the customer's first thought is that the contractor is being shady, lying, trying to screw them, etc.. There are plenty of honest contractors just trying to make a living, same as everyone else.
IronMan92
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Would you share name and contact? How was their quality?
FincAg
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I'd be willing to pay 35 a foot. I got quoted 55 a foot back in early March.
CapCity12thMan
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i was just quoted $23/sq ft in austin
planoaggie123
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Board on board? What kind of post?
toolshed
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Hopefully you mean LF ?
planoaggie123
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$55 per foot for board on board fence??

I would either google how to do it and do it on own or find some laborers on a street corner and have them do it after buying materials for them. I may be wrong but that seem insanely high. My fence is only 3 years old (just bought home) but I would have to assume it is 200+ feet. I couldn't imagine paying that much.
jtp01
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In all reality, the contractor should have sourced the materials on the day you signed the contract. In my opinion, he should eat any cost overruns. Just because he played lumber market roulette, no reason you should foot the bill for his misstep. If material costs went down, would he be willing to lower his installed price? Spoiler alert, heck no he wouldn't.

You acted in good faith that he would perform the project at an agreed upon price. Taking a hard line could leave you looking for another contractor, but I have found myself refusing to reward this behavior.
BrazosDog02
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Guy could have also bid low intending to get the job, then ask for more.


As I said, if you're working with low bidders, then you get exactly what you bargain for.
713_Ag
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No issues with quality and fence looks great. His name is Sergio 832-571-0579
fka ftc
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jtp01 said:

In all reality, the contractor should have sourced the materials on the day you signed the contract.
Just to point out, that "in all reality" this is not reality in the realm of small contractors, particularly labor intensive fence contractors. They would have no ability to future proof lumber prices nor store materials for any length of time. The more proper way for both parties to solve for the issue here is to write into the contract a very standard "quote / price is good for xx days". Not trying to be argumentative, I just think its a tough stance to tell the contractor tough cookies given the price change in the lumber market is somewhat unprecedented and not predictable.

Options here are to find another contractor, accept the higher price, wait for lumber prices to go back down, or least preferable try and strong arm the contractor to perform the work at a price where he probably makes no margin and likely loses money.
toolshed
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But it sounds good to say!
jtp01
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I won't argue the point about small contractors because I've been one. But given the opposite scenario and lumber market tanking would you argue that the contractor should modify the contract in favor of the customer?

The OP can do as he pleases and nothing I'll say will change it. If the quote said "good for xx days" and the contract was executed in that timeframe the contractor would have assumed liability for sourcing the material.
PabloSerna
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CapCity12thMan said:

i was just quoted $23/sq ft in austin
SF vs. LF

If the fence is 6FT tall - you just got quoted $138/LF.

fka ftc
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jtp01 said:

I won't argue the point about small contractors because I've been one. But given the opposite scenario and lumber market tanking would you argue that the contractor should modify the contract in favor of the customer?

The OP can do as he pleases and nothing I'll say will change it. If the quote said "good for xx days" and the contract was executed in that timeframe the contractor would have assumed liability for sourcing the material.
I would absolutely agree that if the contractor made the promise to hold the price, then they should hold it. Also agree that if the reverse was true and the market was declining or they were otherwise able to source the materials at a substantially lower price, the right thing would be to pass at least a portion of those savings to the customer.
Builder93
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AG
fka ftc said:

jtp01 said:

I won't argue the point about small contractors because I've been one. But given the opposite scenario and lumber market tanking would you argue that the contractor should modify the contract in favor of the customer?

The OP can do as he pleases and nothing I'll say will change it. If the quote said "good for xx days" and the contract was executed in that timeframe the contractor would have assumed liability for sourcing the material.
I would absolutely agree that if the contractor made the promise to hold the price, then they should hold it. Also agree that if the reverse was true and the market was declining or they were otherwise able to source the materials at a substantially lower price, the right thing would be to pass at least a portion of those savings to the customer.


This actually happens sometimes. Contractors will offer good faith money to help the relationship or throw in some extras. The bad thing is to always assume the contractor is screwing you. The types of lumber hikes we've experienced lately are the kind that can put some companies under. I think the guy had some cajones for looking out for his bottom line. I dont know how the contract was written if there was one, but if the contract gave a timeframe to accept he should honor it to the best of his ability. Of course it may not hurt to ask for more if the rates hit you fast. When i was a small time remodeler, I would have people with nice company provided health insurance and benefits try to talk me down all the time and assume I was screwing them. I was barely able to cover my healthcare costs, nevermind retirement or 401k.
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