Looking for honest opinions about construction experiences.

3,171 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by 87IE
Builder93
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For those of you who have or will be doing construction/remodeling/design projects (commercial or residential):

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?
Burn-It
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I remodeled and added about 250 sq-ft about 5 years ago. I had a good experience with the architect, who also became my GC. For the most part, he seemed to know what he was doing until he didn't. He would try sending me change orders for his mistakes. He subcontracted the HVAC work and that turned out like ***** I learned to really pay attention to details from the bidding process and daily walkdowns to see what progress was being made (could not live in the house while renovations were being made).
AKA 13-0
Tumble Weed
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I expect him to give me a bid, and then I determine if it is satisfactory. No delays, no excuses. Firm due date.

Sometimes the subs will take a project and torpedo your timeline. I had a sub take a month to do a frameless shower glass. My projects never run late, never one hour, but this guy burned me. Tried to save a little dough, and it showed that he was second tier.

I buy all materials and they show up for the install on nearly all of my projects. It simplifies the bidding process for them.

I had one guy that was scared to death of my wife. He would call me and ask me to talk to her. She weighs 120 soaking wet, but she had him buffaloed.
shihitemuslim
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Going with a builder that has long relationships with the sub contractors is important. That is key. If the contractor doesn't have much experience with a particular subcontractor, you may get screwed.
IslandAg76
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It will cost more and take longer than you think so plan for that.

Define some penalties for not being completed by stated completion date, with allowances for weather.
"Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member of Congress....
But then I repeat myself." Mark Twain
BeardedWoodsman17
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Currently managing a historic remodel and some things that should have been anticipated are:

1. It always will cost more than you think
2. It will take longer than you think and the GC should anticipate this and build that into their schedule
3. There should be mutually agreed upon consequences for not hitting the contractually agreed upon completion date
4. Ensure that the plans were not designed off of assumptions but reality of what is present conditions prior to starting work
5. Ensure plans are properly coordinated prior and not have different trades doing something completely different
6. If you are trying to match historic material do not expect it to be cheap
Builder93
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Not the format of answers I was expecting. Are you guys who answered in construction or are you the end user?
evan_aggie
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To be fair, you asked 3 questions w/o specifying a "format" to follow.


Quote:

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?

I'll play along regarding a kitchen remodel:
What are your general expectations going into the process? That the GC would handle everything and make the "right" decisions always.

What do you wish was done better? Not feel like I had to be GC#2 and correct a number of decisions and/or half-assed worked that either escaped their attention or the GC thought was OK.

Was it a good or bad experience? It was an average experience. I can do a better job than most people because I care more about my home than they do, but that would involve all of my time and it isn't my job. Hence a GC is needed.
ABATTBQ11
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In midsize commercial...

Expectations:
1. Owner won't make up their mind or know what they want.
2. The A/E will be an arrogant ***** who will leave a lot of things out, design things that don't work, and then blame you for it.
3. Subs will want to get paid twice for everything.

Done better?
1. More accountability for the A/E from the owner. Too often they blow their design schedule and expect it to be made up in the construction schedule to meet the same delivery date. A/E's also need to be more accountable for ****ty designs and conflicts.
2. See #1

Experience?
It's generally a ****show that comes out fine.
YellAg2004
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Builder93 said:

For those of you who have or will be doing construction/remodeling/design projects (commercial or residential):

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?
I'll take a stab at things. For my background, I work in heavy civil construction.

Edit: My answers are in regards to my experiences on our residential remodel work.

My general expectations going into any project are that the Contractor is knowledgeable about the work he is proposing to perform, that he shows up when he says he will, that he will execute the work in the timeline he agrees to, and that he will perform quality work. I am willing to be reasonable with modifications to the cost & timeline when assumptions are laid out up front and differing conditions are found. I am not willing to be flexible on doing what you agree to (i.e. show up to perform work), being knowledgeable about the work you are performing, or performing quality work.

The experience I had was poor because the contractors I was working with didn't show up when they told me they would with the number of guys they told me they would. Consequently the work took significantly longer than what I was originally told. What added insult to injury was the fact that if I wasn't standing there watching the guys work, corners would be cut or things were damaged around the house that the contractor wouldn't just own up to so we could determine a resolution.
ABATTBQ11
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BeardedWoodsman17 said:

Currently managing a historic remodel and some things that should have been anticipated are:

1. It always will cost more than you think
2. It will take longer than you think and the GC should anticipate this and build that into their schedule
3. There should be mutually agreed upon consequences for not hitting the contractually agreed upon completion date
4. Ensure that the plans were not designed off of assumptions but reality of what is present conditions prior to starting work
5. Ensure plans are properly coordinated prior and not have different trades doing something completely different
6. If you are trying to match historic material do not expect it to be cheap



That's not always realistic. Sometimes assumptions are all you have to go off of because fully documenting or establishing existing conditions is cost prohibitive or unrealistic. It's usually easier to simply include contingencies for necessary changes and proceed with some basic assumptions.
Aggietaco
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Everyone wants everything too fast and too cheap these days and thinks they will not sacrifice quality. This is true of Owners, Design Team, and Contractors. Very few people are willing to pay (time and money) for the quality they expect.
BeardedWoodsman17
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Except for the when the structure was gutted allowing for the Design team to walk the site yet refused to actually step foot on site and just went off the partial designs from the original blue prints instead of field verifying any dimension.
Builder93
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Thanks for replies. I am doing a bit of market research on my own. The responses don't surprise me. Some are things I would say and some are things people say that I've worked for. Some are things people say for whom I would chose not to work.

I think the construction business gets a bad rap because the process is very similar to the process from 50 years ago while everything else has gotten faster and more efficient. Construction projects are all custom and people don't like to wait for custom work even when they say they do. I left the design part of the biz long ago when I looked around and realized that the people I was working with had a very limited background and were not willing to really be the expert in the room when they were expected to be. I've been involved in all parts of construction and I think too many construction people are willing to let their clients drive them instead of standing firm with realistic expectations. Think under-promise, over-deliver or vice versa. It happens all the way from architects to engineers to GC's to subcontractors. I've been thinking about new ways to approach the process and deliver something good while keeping expectations realistic. My primary thoughts start with client education.

PS Also, I think people in the industry generally need more training. Just about anyone can be a "professional", especially in residential.
PFG
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Quote:

What do you wish was done better?


Just finished a residential build on semi rural, acreage property. Huge disappointment in job site cleanliness.

The roll off dumpster was the only form of trash collection and of course, each sub used it about as good as my 2 year old uses a spoon or fork - only when it suits them.

I've got enough construction BS laying around that I'll be picking up nails, taco foil, and cig butts for another year.

It's got me pissed off enough to consider starting a company that does construction site preservation and clean up.
TMoney2007
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After a couple questionable to bad experiences with contractors, my family tends to be our own contractor/GC and hire subs directly. I've worked in commercial and residential drywall for a few years and I'm pretty handy so I can project manage most things.

One the last renovation we did, I can say the thing that really bugged me was that one sub wouldn't give me a quote, even though he had a clear scope of work. One sub was constantly calling with questions about things that he should be able to figure out by himself. Either that or he needed to be thinking far enough ahead that we could talk through them at the end of the day when I visited the jobsite. This same guy then decided to act like getting information from me was super hard when I answered the phone every time he called and came by the job once a day. Then he decided to trash talk me to my sister (we were doing the project together)...

Having worked in commercial construction, I know that there are plenty of people out there who can be self sufficient for the most part and I don't have a problem paying extra for that.

I think as a contractor, I would say that the biggest takeaway would be that many of your customers are going to have full time jobs. Making a little bit of time to talk through things every day is obviously a good thing. I am generally pretty busy at work so I don't want to be answering questions every couple hours most days.
one MEEN Ag
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Builder93 said:

For those of you who have or will be doing construction/remodeling/design projects (commercial or residential):

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?
For a change of pace in these answers, this weekend I am putting the final bells and whistles into a major home renovation that I started earlier this year. We redid the kitchen and redid the floors for the whole house. Everything I could DIY, I did.

Here's my advice on budget: There is no 'cost savings' with DIY home renovation. Any money you save on DIY goes straight back into buying higher quality products and finishes. I had X amount of dollars to spend in general, by doing it myself I was able to get nicer things and do projects that I would've normally had to leave out.

And my advice on scope of work: Fixing things up leads to fixing up everything adjacent to it as well. We started out replacing our floors which requires pulling up the shoe moulding. When we went to put the new floors in, we realized the shoe moulding would be a new white color and not the yellowed 20 year old white the baseboard is.

So now replacing flooring included:
-Painting the baseboards
-Painting the doors to match the baseboards
-Updating the handles and hinges

In the kitchen, painting the cabinets and putting in a backsplash turned out to include replacing the countertops, updating the stovetop, oven, and microwave, moving the microwave over the oven, new sink and faucet, and draw pulls.

Every update I've been happy with the final product, and I don't miss the extra money I've spent because the job looks like its been done right. But damn am I ready to stop spending money on updating the house.


TMoney2007
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Our current project ended up getting new baseboard and door casings throughout because it wasn't in great shape and it would've taken away from the finished product.
Builder93
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one MEEN Ag said:

Builder93 said:

For those of you who have or will be doing construction/remodeling/design projects (commercial or residential):

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?
For a change of pace in these answers, this weekend I am putting the final bells and whistles into a major home renovation that I started earlier this year. We redid the kitchen and redid the floors for the whole house. Everything I could DIY, I did.

Here's my advice on budget: There is no 'cost savings' with DIY home renovation. Any money you save on DIY goes straight back into buying higher quality products and finishes. I had X amount of dollars to spend in general, by doing it myself I was able to get nicer things and do projects that I would've normally had to leave out.

And my advice on scope of work: Fixing things up leads to fixing up everything adjacent to it as well. We started out replacing our floors which requires pulling up the shoe moulding. When we went to put the new floors in, we realized the shoe moulding would be a new white color and not the yellowed 20 year old white the baseboard is.

So now replacing flooring included:
-Painting the baseboards
-Painting the doors to match the baseboards
-Updating the handles and hinges

In the kitchen, painting the cabinets and putting in a backsplash turned out to include replacing the countertops, updating the stovetop, oven, and microwave, moving the microwave over the oven, new sink and faucet, and draw pulls.

Every update I've been happy with the final product, and I don't miss the extra money I've spent because the job looks like its been done right. But damn am I ready to stop spending money on updating the house.



It's funny you say that about the scope creep. As a professional, I most likely could have told you what you were in for before you started and probably would know other techniques to keep the scope from creeping into other areas. When I used to do remodeling I would start with, "What is your budget?" Most people either don't know their budget or don't want to give it to you thinking they will feel you out and see how they can haggle. I can tell you hands down, every time someone gave me a budget, they got more than they paid for.
flown-the-coop
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Builder93 said:

PS Also, I think people in the industry generally need more training. Just about anyone can be a "professional", especially in residential.
In Texas you have to have a license for Interior Design, but not to be a GC to build a new home, much less remodel one. Changed about 10 years ago due to lobbying by the industry to remove license requirement. What's funny, is the interior design license resulted from lobbying as a way to restrict entrants into the industry.

I would want either a highly sourced recommendation or a list of 10 most recent projects then call 3-4 of the owners to gauge experience. Would compare scope of projects they did with what you intend. Adding an addition is not equal to a master bath remodel.
TMoney2007
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flown-the-coop said:

Builder93 said:

PS Also, I think people in the industry generally need more training. Just about anyone can be a "professional", especially in residential.
In Texas you have to have a license for Interior Design, but not to be a GC to build a new home, much less remodel one. Changed about 10 years ago due to lobbying by the industry to remove license requirement. What's funny, is the interior design license resulted from lobbying as a way to restrict entrants into the industry.

I would want either a highly sourced recommendation or a list of 10 most recent projects then call 3-4 of the owners to gauge experience. Would compare scope of projects they did with what you intend. Adding an addition is not equal to a master bath remodel.
Yeah, the lack of contractor and subcontractor licensing is kind of crazy...
CapCity12thMan
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You will have a miserable experience and wish you never did it. Contractors suck.
ABATTBQ11
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BeardedWoodsman17 said:

Except for the when the structure was gutted allowing for the Design team to walk the site yet refused to actually step foot on site and just went off the partial designs from the original blue prints instead of field verifying any dimension.


Yeah, that's bull****. See my comment about arrogant A/E's. Once had one that pulled similar **** with a gutted space.

They had "measured" column and wall locations, and we had gotten the space laser scanned (like $5k IIRC) because the owner was interested in verifying the space and structural locations were critical. We sent them the scan and dimensions, and they then threw us under the bus in an owner's meeting because they were wrong and had put them well behind schedule, "waiting on us for nothing but a waste of money."

The scan was apparently way off from their measurements, but when I asked them where and by how much, all I got were vague generalities. After some pushing, they finally sent a CAD file of their layout. I overlaid that onto the scan, pulled dimensions for all of the discrepancies, and went out with an APM to field measure. Turns out, the scans were spot ****ing on (surprise, surprise) and the A/E's field measurements were off by FEET in some instances and they blew some wall thicknesses by 8". Their "measurements" would have turned into a total ****show.

We told them that we went out and fields matter and weren't seeing any discrepancies with the scan and inched them to walk and measure with the owner to settle out once and for all. They unceremoniously declined and said they'd just use the scan since it was already paid for, but any structural discrepancies wouldn't be on them.

Yeah. **** you guys too.
ABATTBQ11
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You have to work clean up into your contracts and hold them to it. I don't know about residential, but a commercial GC typically has no problem back charging and billing a sub for not cleaning up their ****.
TMoney2007
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I'm sure the laser scanning company heard that same story 1000 times.
ABATTBQ11
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TMoney2007 said:

I'm sure the laser scanning company heard that same story 1000 times.


Not really. They were kind of shocked because the A/E was telling the owner that they shouldn't get paid for the work (through us), and they said they'd never gotten that kind of response. They bent over backwards trying to make the owner happy for us and fugue out what was going on. We were on really good terms (ready to pay them either way), and they'd done great work for us in the past. I got really ticked that they were throwing my vendor under the bus and trying to short change them, and I had to back off several angry emails during that whole thing. That bull**** still pisses me off.
PFG
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Yeah, I (home owner) was naive and let the roll off be the only form of exterior clean up.

How do commercial const do this? Companies that come in weekly to tidy up and charge a per month fee?
one MEEN Ag
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Builder93 said:

one MEEN Ag said:


For a change of pace in these answers, this weekend I am putting the final bells and whistles into a major home renovation that I started earlier this year. We redid the kitchen and redid the floors for the whole house. Everything I could DIY, I did.

Here's my advice on budget: There is no 'cost savings' with DIY home renovation. Any money you save on DIY goes straight back into buying higher quality products and finishes. I had X amount of dollars to spend in general, by doing it myself I was able to get nicer things and do projects that I would've normally had to leave out.

And my advice on scope of work: Fixing things up leads to fixing up everything adjacent to it as well. We started out replacing our floors which requires pulling up the shoe moulding. When we went to put the new floors in, we realized the shoe moulding would be a new white color and not the yellowed 20 year old white the baseboard is.

So now replacing flooring included:
-Painting the baseboards
-Painting the doors to match the baseboards
-Updating the handles and hinges

In the kitchen, painting the cabinets and putting in a backsplash turned out to include replacing the countertops, updating the stovetop, oven, and microwave, moving the microwave over the oven, new sink and faucet, and draw pulls.

Every update I've been happy with the final product, and I don't miss the extra money I've spent because the job looks like its been done right. But damn am I ready to stop spending money on updating the house.



It's funny you say that about the scope creep. As a professional, I most likely could have told you what you were in for before you started and probably would know other techniques to keep the scope from creeping into other areas. When I used to do remodeling I would start with, "What is your budget?" Most people either don't know their budget or don't want to give it to you thinking they will feel you out and see how they can haggle. I can tell you hands down, every time someone gave me a budget, they got more than they paid for.
Builder, I agree completely that you could've saw this coming from a mile away. And if I answer honestly I could say I did too. I'm a married man and wives take no prisoners when it comes to updating kitchens.

I can see both sides about the budget question. Nobody wants to get taken for a ride and stories about contractors screwing over homeowners are common. I can guarantee you if I had told my countertop contractor how much I would've been willing to spend, he would've upped his prices by a few hundred bucks. A builder is in a different position than an individual contractor, but it can add up.

TMoney2007
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PFG said:

Yeah, I (home owner) was naive and let the roll off be the only form of exterior clean up.

How do commercial const do this? Companies that come in weekly to tidy up and charge a per month fee?
Commercial cleanup usually includes site cleanup in each sub's contract. The GC will back charge the sub if it becomes a problem.
Builder93
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one MEEN Ag said:

Builder93 said:

one MEEN Ag said:


For a change of pace in these answers, this weekend I am putting the final bells and whistles into a major home renovation that I started earlier this year. We redid the kitchen and redid the floors for the whole house. Everything I could DIY, I did.

Here's my advice on budget: There is no 'cost savings' with DIY home renovation. Any money you save on DIY goes straight back into buying higher quality products and finishes. I had X amount of dollars to spend in general, by doing it myself I was able to get nicer things and do projects that I would've normally had to leave out.

And my advice on scope of work: Fixing things up leads to fixing up everything adjacent to it as well. We started out replacing our floors which requires pulling up the shoe moulding. When we went to put the new floors in, we realized the shoe moulding would be a new white color and not the yellowed 20 year old white the baseboard is.

So now replacing flooring included:
-Painting the baseboards
-Painting the doors to match the baseboards
-Updating the handles and hinges

In the kitchen, painting the cabinets and putting in a backsplash turned out to include replacing the countertops, updating the stovetop, oven, and microwave, moving the microwave over the oven, new sink and faucet, and draw pulls.

Every update I've been happy with the final product, and I don't miss the extra money I've spent because the job looks like its been done right. But damn am I ready to stop spending money on updating the house.



It's funny you say that about the scope creep. As a professional, I most likely could have told you what you were in for before you started and probably would know other techniques to keep the scope from creeping into other areas. When I used to do remodeling I would start with, "What is your budget?" Most people either don't know their budget or don't want to give it to you thinking they will feel you out and see how they can haggle. I can tell you hands down, every time someone gave me a budget, they got more than they paid for.
Builder, I agree completely that you could've saw this coming from a mile away. And if I answer honestly I could say I did too. I'm a married man and wives take no prisoners when it comes to updating kitchens.

I can see both sides about the budget question. Nobody wants to get taken for a ride and stories about contractors screwing over homeowners are common. I can guarantee you if I had told my countertop contractor how much I would've been willing to spend, he would've upped his prices by a few hundred bucks. A builder is in a different position than an individual contractor, but it can add up.



It's all about the relationship and the trust built through connections and past experiences. The problem is that it really does go both ways. It's not just the contractor who has to be honest.
HCS
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I have been a residential remodeling contractor for 27 years. We are a design-build firm and I highly recommend this process for many reasons. Number one there is one point of accountability. You don't have a builder and designer blaming each other. Number two a good design-build firm will take full advantage of the integration of the processes and solve problems in design where it is much less expensive.

Texas has no requirements for insurance; you want to make sure that the contractor carries enough general liability to pay for your building and all of its belongings and you also want to make sure that they have some kind of workers' liability.

Ask about documentation. You should expect to see contracts, change orders, specifications, inspection reports to name just a few.

Ask about processes such as the design process, communication, dust control, job closeout, warranty, pre-construction planning, etc..

Ask for a list of their regular client meetings. You should see regularly scheduled meetings that cover things like, change orders, draws, schedules and general client happiness.

I would ask what they are going to do to minimize ongoing utility costs and what they recommend to improve durability.

Construction projects at every scale have a lot of moving parts. It takes a good system and a well-run company to keep up with everything, keep the project on schedule, on budget, and with a thrilled client.
ABATTBQ11
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PFG said:

Yeah, I (home owner) was naive and let the roll off be the only form of exterior clean up.

How do commercial const do this? Companies that come in weekly to tidy up and charge a per month fee?


As someone else said, it's typically in their contract that they have to clean up their space/work daily/weekly. If they're not doing it or are doing a bad job of it, the GC will warn them once or twice, then use their own guys or some kind of temp labor to clean and then send them a bill/not pay that much of their contract. Some GC's will clean up themselves but either make their subs give them a credit on their contract or just simply do it for the subs to keep them happy and get lower numbers. The thinking, and reality, of the latter is that the subs know they're working on a clean jobsite and don't need to worry about cleaning costs with that GC, so they bid lower to them than their competition because it's preferable work. Collectively, the GC typically saves money and headache between all the subs.

This is part of why GC's and owners hold retainage. It's to ensure work gets done and provides leverage for compliance. The sub may be done with their work, but if they leave the site looking like **** with all of their trash, the GC can and probably will withhold retainage payments until they clean it up.
87IE
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Quote:

What are your general expectations going into the process?

What do you wish was done better?

Was it a good or bad experience?
The GC would be up front with the timeline (including scheduling some "rain days")

The GC communicates frequently and doesn't try to BS

Overall a OK experience because I expected delays.


Quote:

I think the construction business gets a bad rap because the process is very similar to the process from 50 years ago while everything else has gotten faster and more efficient
I'll disagree with this to an extent. To me it gets a bad rap because of

  • fly by night folks that take your $$$ and run
  • any tom dick or harry putting a sign on his truck claiming to be a contractor (I do recognize that the homeowner should do their homework and check them out)
  • Unrealistic expectations. People look at a faucet at one of the box stores and see $150.00 and think it "should" only cost $50 to install it. Few people think about the overhead costs including insurance, paying the office staff, rent, etc.
  • Above mentioned surprises that pop up. Quoting flooring install before seeing the condition of the sub-floor.
  • piss poor subcontractors

To me a good contractor needs to
  • communicate
  • own up to mistakes and take ownership of his/her sub screw-ups and fix it
  • be honest when a homeowner wants the mona lisa on a "dogs playing poker" budget.

The whole process is a two-way street. I'd hate to hear horror stories from good contractors that dealt with PITA customers.
It's Laken Riley, not Lincoln you idiot
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