What all goes under siding?

4,647 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by SeMgCo87
stridulent
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On the corner of our house, there is a small section of each wall that is siding instead if brick. Each wall of this corner has a 48x48 inch window that I am planning to replace with a window that is half the size (more privacy from neighbors).

In doing so, I'll of course have to frame in, insulate, and drywall the new area that exists from the reduction. These are all things I've done before. However, I've never replaced siding before and I'll need to add whatever goes under siding in the areas where the windows no longer are.

What all do I need?
Long Live Sully
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Post pics.. I don't understand your exterior corners.
BrazosDog02
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On current builds i believe there is house wrap. On my home it goes lap siding, stud, bead board...inside of room. Lol.
stridulent
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BrazosDog02 said:

On current builds i believe there is house wrap. On my home it goes lap siding, stud, bead board...inside of room. Lol.
OK, I wasn't sure if the house wrap included everything or if there are different layers.

I'm basically wanting to know what should be installed between wall studs and exterior siding.
chipotle
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Siding
Tyvek
Plywood
Then your wd framing
evan_aggie
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I never understood tyvek. I see builders put that up and it's flapping in the wind and seams all mangled. Then they tack it down all over... just a 'mostly' functional barrier to keep water out and moisture lower?
ECC
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Probably more info than you need but it's a good primer on wall assemblies.

BSI-001: The Perfect Wall
ABATTBQ11
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evan_aggie said:

I never understood tyvek. I see builders put that up and it's flapping in the wind and seams all mangled. Then they tack it down all over... just a 'mostly' functional barrier to keep water out and moisture lower?


Somewhat. On older homes, felt (think roofing felt) was used instead.

It acts as a barrier between the siding and plywood sheathing to help keep moisture from the plywood. The tyvek/felt should be overlapped from the ground up, kind of like siding, so any water that gets behind the siding should flow down the tyvek/felt behind it instead of soaking into the plywood.

This is important at joint locations like corners or windows where you'll butt joint siding to trim. You can caulk the joint, but the caulk is only semi-permanent. It won't last forever. The permanent barrier behind it gives any water that gets into the joint a pathway down and out the wall without exposing the structure.
TMoney2007
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evan_aggie said:

I never understood tyvek. I see builders put that up and it's flapping in the wind and seams all mangled. Then they tack it down all over... just a 'mostly' functional barrier to keep water out and moisture lower?
It's an air and water barrier. It's a totally functional barrier... They don't tack it down any more than they have to because any hole in it is going to be a weak point and vertical seams get taped. Most installations I see put up as big a piece as they possibly can.
agnerd
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You're replacing a window just to get more privacy from the neighbors? Can you just put up some translucent window film on part/all of the window instead?

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=window+film+frosting
stridulent
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The current windows are also really ugly and not energy efficient at all.
GrimesCoAg95
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What is your siding? Lap? Chipotle has it right on, but I want to add that you need to get the house wrap right. That means it goes under the current house wrap at the top and over the current house wrap at the bottom and seal the vertical seams with the proper tape.
stridulent
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Thanks. I will start from the bottom and work my way up with the house wrap. If I get 9 ft high pieces, I may only need one piece on one of the walls. I'm planning to go ahead and replace the existing wrap or w/e is under there.
BrazosDog02
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How would one add tyvek properly to an 1860's build? I have one wall that isn't 18" limestone and as stated it's pretty much lap siding, studs, beadboard. I'd like to remove the siding carefully, insulate and also house wrap it but I don't know what to do where the one wall meets the two limestone walls on either side. Right now, when the sun shines right, you can see light through the wall from the inside of the room. Would be nice to madernize that a bit.
The Kraken
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chipotle said:

Siding
Tyvek
Plywood
Then your wd framing
Not always. Could be Thermoply instead of plywood and a house wrap.
stridulent
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What kind and thickness of plywood should be used under the tyvek?
The Kraken
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3/8" OSB is typical
ABATTBQ11
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Match whatever is already there
Kenneth_2003
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TMoney2007 said:

evan_aggie said:

I never understood tyvek. I see builders put that up and it's flapping in the wind and seams all mangled. Then they tack it down all over... just a 'mostly' functional barrier to keep water out and moisture lower?
It's an air and water barrier. It's a totally functional barrier... They don't tack it down any more than they have to because any hole in it is going to be a weak point and vertical seams get taped. Most installations I see put up as big a piece as they possibly can.


Tyvek is NOT an air barrier. Vapor can pass, but not liquids.
JP76
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Match whatever is already there


This


Are these bedrooms and are these the only windows in them ?

What size are the new windows going to be ?

Seems like a lot of work and expense for more privacy. What about internal shutters or 90% solar screens ?
Aggietaco
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Tyvek house wrap is an AWB.
Belton Ag
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New World Ag said:

3/8" OSB is typical
7/16"
The Kraken
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You're correct...not sure what I was thinking.
Kenneth_2003
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Aggietaco said:

Tyvek house wrap is an AWB.
From DuPont...

https://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/construction-materials/building-envelope-systems/faqs/wb-faq.html#Question3
Quote:

Is DuPont Tyvek a vapor barrier?

No, DuPont Tyvek is not a vapor barrier. It is made with unique material science to keep air and bulk water out while allowing moisture vapor inside walls to escape.
It'll stop the wind, but it does not stop movement at the molecular level.
SWCBonfire
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BrazosDog02 said:

How would one add tyvek properly to an 1860's build? I have one wall that isn't 18" limestone and as stated it's pretty much lap siding, studs, beadboard. I'd like to remove the siding carefully, insulate and also house wrap it but I don't know what to do where the one wall meets the two limestone walls on either side. Right now, when the sun shines right, you can see light through the wall from the inside of the room. Would be nice to madernize that a bit.


Likely answer: you would take the beadboard off, add in fireblocking (it probably has little/none and is post framed if 1860's), insulate the stud bays, sheath with either osb+housewrap, zip wall osb sheathing, taped foam board w/ water barrier, or thermo-ply*. You would then need to nail on 1x2 furring strips outside of the new sheathing along the studs, and then re-apply the beadboard. Window bucks/sills, soffit trim, and corner trim will have to be moved/revamped to accomodate the additional thickness.

The house has survived this far because any water that has gotten behind the beadboard has been able to dry out to the inside & outside in a timely manner. Put that same siding directly on sheathing with no air gap, and the back of the siding will start to rot as soon as it gets wet.

Water needs to sheet down the weather resistant barrier (housewrap or zip) where the layer below is under the bottom of the layer above. Get this wrong (especially around the corners of the window), and you've got problems. Probably not a job for someone who is asking what's under siding.

*thermo-ply is cardboard with a waxy, water resistant outside that supposedly doesn't require taping to be airtight (enough). It's crap, but it's very thin. It seems like a termite magnet to me.
stridulent
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JP76 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

Match whatever is already there


This


Are these bedrooms and are these the only windows in them ?

What size are the new windows going to be ?

Seems like a lot of work and expense for more privacy. What about internal shutters or 90% solar screens ?
It is the corner of the master bathroom and the tub is right in front of one of the windows. We're remodeling the entire bathroom. The cost for the windows was pretty minor compared to everything else.

One window will be 48 x 24 and one window will be 48 x 12.
Aggietaco
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That's exactly what an air barrier is, you don't want to stop water vapor from being able to escape the envelope.

Tyvek is an air and water barrier.
stridulent
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Doing the work today and low and behold there is no OSB sheathing on the house currently. It's just studs, some old black house wrap, then OSB lap siding. I guess I'll add some sheathing as long as it doesn't throw anything off.
ABATTBQ11
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stridulent said:

Doing the work today and low and behold there is no OSB sheathing on the house currently. It's just studs, some old black house wrap, then OSB lap siding. I guess I'll add some sheathing as long as it doesn't throw anything off.


How old is this house?

Also, probably no need to add sheathing if it isn't there. As someone noted above, any water that gets in is probably drying out just fine because it's not getting trapped between sheathing and siding. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
stridulent
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1993 in Houston.
BrazosDog02
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SWCBonfire said:

BrazosDog02 said:

How would one add tyvek properly to an 1860's build? I have one wall that isn't 18" limestone and as stated it's pretty much lap siding, studs, beadboard. I'd like to remove the siding carefully, insulate and also house wrap it but I don't know what to do where the one wall meets the two limestone walls on either side. Right now, when the sun shines right, you can see light through the wall from the inside of the room. Would be nice to madernize that a bit.


Likely answer: you would take the beadboard off, add in fireblocking (it probably has little/none and is post framed if 1860's), insulate the stud bays, sheath with either osb+housewrap, zip wall osb sheathing, taped foam board w/ water barrier, or thermo-ply*. You would then need to nail on 1x2 furring strips outside of the new sheathing along the studs, and then re-apply the beadboard. Window bucks/sills, soffit trim, and corner trim will have to be moved/revamped to accomodate the additional thickness.

The house has survived this far because any water that has gotten behind the beadboard has been able to dry out to the inside & outside in a timely manner. Put that same siding directly on sheathing with no air gap, and the back of the siding will start to rot as soon as it gets wet.

Water needs to sheet down the weather resistant barrier (housewrap or zip) where the layer below is under the bottom of the layer above. Get this wrong (especially around the corners of the window), and you've got problems. Probably not a job for someone who is asking what's under siding.

*thermo-ply is cardboard with a waxy, water resistant outside that supposedly doesn't require taping to be airtight (enough). It's crap, but it's very thin. It seems like a termite magnet to me.


Sounds pretty straightforward. Water doesnt get behind it because it's under a roof line and it's a porch wall. Studs are 2x4 dimensional Cypress. Definitely not something I'd pay someone else to do.

In mine of work, I've seen so many "pros" **** up simple jobs and half ass tasks that there is no way In he'll im Paying someone else to hire some dudes so he can stand around and point at things. I'd have to do a TON of research myself to know that he knows what he's doing. If I have to do all that research anyway, I may as well just do the job myself and know it's done properly.
ABATTBQ11
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SWCBonfire said:

BrazosDog02 said:

How would one add tyvek properly to an 1860's build? I have one wall that isn't 18" limestone and as stated it's pretty much lap siding, studs, beadboard. I'd like to remove the siding carefully, insulate and also house wrap it but I don't know what to do where the one wall meets the two limestone walls on either side. Right now, when the sun shines right, you can see light through the wall from the inside of the room. Would be nice to madernize that a bit.


Likely answer: you would take the beadboard off, add in fireblocking (it probably has little/none and is post framed if 1860's), insulate the stud bays, sheath with either osb+housewrap, zip wall osb sheathing, taped foam board w/ water barrier, or thermo-ply*. You would then need to nail on 1x2 furring strips outside of the new sheathing along the studs, and then re-apply the beadboard. Window bucks/sills, soffit trim, and corner trim will have to be moved/revamped to accomodate the additional thickness.

The house has survived this far because any water that has gotten behind the beadboard has been able to dry out to the inside & outside in a timely manner. Put that same siding directly on sheathing with no air gap, and the back of the siding will start to rot as soon as it gets wet.

Water needs to sheet down the weather resistant barrier (housewrap or zip) where the layer below is under the bottom of the layer above. Get this wrong (especially around the corners of the window), and you've got problems. Probably not a job for someone who is asking what's under siding.

*thermo-ply is cardboard with a waxy, water resistant outside that supposedly doesn't require taping to be airtight (enough). It's crap, but it's very thin. It seems like a termite magnet to me.


I can attest to this. I had a window sill rot out because the bottom corner of the window was not wrapped correctly. The housewrap (felt) had a small tear in it at the corner and it wasn't sealed at all against the window frame. Water would get behind the trim, through the tear, and to the sill. Over time it rotted out.
SeMgCo87
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stridulent said:

The current windows are also really ugly and not energy efficient at all.
It may be just as cost effective to replace only the windows with low "e" dual pane windows. Replacement windows are manufactured without mounting flanges.

Also, if any of these windows provide fire egress from a bedroom (5 to 5.7 SF req'd), it certainly would violate (many) city codes, and you may want to check with your home Insurance provider...it may affect coverage, too.
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