Evap coil and home inspection question

1,296 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by TexAg1987
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Home inspection for our house on the market was today. The AC tech recommended the system be upgraded to a R410A system from the current R20 due to a leak in the evaporator coil. They didn't say how they determined but the home inspector had noted signs of water at base of inside unit.

We currently are renting to some friends short term who are military and being stationed elsewhere and they have been running the AC at 70 for weeks while humidity here has been around 80% because she was pregnant ( had kid last week) and he called to tell me water was pouring out of the secondary. My thought is the signs of water was from the AC condensation.

A few questions

Am I wrong to be pissed he recommended an upgrade on my dime?

How do I know how he determined a leak? He didn't say how he determined and he only showed one pressure reading on the report.

It's a working system!!!!! How much would it cost to replace the evap coil on a 4 inch on unit? I'm thinking a fair counter would be half the cost of the coil replacement.

What do y'all think?

Edit to say the tech also got the manufacture year wrong. That's basic so I wonder how much attention to detail was actually paid
htxag09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You can have an ac company come out to inspect it and verify there isn't a leak. Or you can just tell the buyer no.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Agreed. Any idea on the cost of replacing coil? Not saying there isn't a leak. I'd rather sell than walk but also want to be fair.
Dr. Doctor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Probably about 3 to 4k to replace evap coil and change out.

Buddy recently had it done in north Houston, but just evap coil. If there is a leak, A) it wouldn't cool, B) makes conversion a little easier.

If you have a infrared temp gun, you can check temperature rise of the system. Should be 15F or so.

~egon
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dr. Doctor said:

Probably about 3 to 4k to replace evap coil and change out.

Just coil? The quote for everything is 6900. It's a Goodman currently and they quoted a Bryant

Buddy recently had it done in north Houston, but just evap coil. If there is a leak, A) it wouldn't cool, B) makes conversion a little easier.

System is cooling and has been keeping up regardless of weather lately ( high humidity, heat)

If you have a infrared temp gun, you can check temperature rise of the system. Should be 15F or so.

The AC tech report noted air supply () temp at least 6 feet after coil at 62 and air entering as 77

Home inspector noted 21 degree between supply and return air. It's cooling just fine


~egon


BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
21 degree split is fantastic.

Water coming out of the secondary has nothing to do with a coil leak and everything to do with a primary drain being plugged which is why there is water in the pan.

The coil is always wet under it inside the unit. That's how AC systems work.

Sounds to me like the ac tech needs to head back to ac tech school and you need a new company if you want to go further. I would tell the buyer to pound sand.

Coil leaks cause poor AC performance and the only real way to identify one is with a "sniffer" type tool or perhaps dye. Refrigerant leaks don't have to be at a coil. But either way, that 21 degree split won't be 21 degrees in a week or two if you actually have a leak.
GtownRAB
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We had a small pinhole leak in ours and all the Freon slowly leaked out. AC seemed to be running fine, but house was slowly getting warmer because AC wasn't cooling. We paid $1700 to replace the coil and refill with Freon. This was from a very reputable company, but I have head $3-4K easy, not sure why ours was cheaper.

From your other comments, yours seems fine. But as others have said, get an AC company to test and confirm it.

Apparently over the last decade there is a ton of ACs with defective coils, there was a class action suit but it was thrown out a few years ago.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thanks guys, I think y'all are correct that it's functioning fine. That was my first thought too.

I did call the AC company that did the test and they are going to forward me the job site notes and pics taken by the technician when they're back in the office tomorrow. I am wondering how he came to the conclusion to replace the entire system so hopefully it does shed light on that.

My stance as the seller is we should address repairs and not upgrades. The only other issue was two tabs from a shingle missing and a nail pop at one of the stacks on the roof. He also noted our anti siphon had been removed. I have a feeling the home inspector was trying to give the buyers some meat and recommended an hvac inspection and the AC tech went overboard.

Y'all have a great 4th celebration!
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Goodnight Irene said:

Thanks guys, I think y'all are correct that it's functioning fine. That was my first thought too.

I did call the AC company that did the test and they are going to forward me the job site notes and pics taken by the technician when they're back in the office tomorrow. I am wondering how he came to the conclusion to replace the entire system so hopefully it does shed light on that.

My stance as the seller is we should address repairs and not upgrades. The only other issue was two tabs from a shingle missing and a nail pop at one of the stacks on the roof. He also noted our anti siphon had been removed. I have a feeling the home inspector was trying to give the buyers some meat and recommended an hvac inspection and the AC tech went overboard.

Y'all have a great 4th celebration!


AC tech sounds iffy. BUT....Anti siphon missing is a safety and health issue. That's why that got marked. As a roofer, nail pops will leak if they aren't right now. Missing tabs indicate storm damage or aging shingles starting to fail. That's why that got marked. Both of these are going to be thorns in the side of the seller.

Realtors LOVE roof issues. Big ticket items with a lot of leverage.
htxag09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BrazosDog02 said:

Goodnight Irene said:

Thanks guys, I think y'all are correct that it's functioning fine. That was my first thought too.

I did call the AC company that did the test and they are going to forward me the job site notes and pics taken by the technician when they're back in the office tomorrow. I am wondering how he came to the conclusion to replace the entire system so hopefully it does shed light on that.

My stance as the seller is we should address repairs and not upgrades. The only other issue was two tabs from a shingle missing and a nail pop at one of the stacks on the roof. He also noted our anti siphon had been removed. I have a feeling the home inspector was trying to give the buyers some meat and recommended an hvac inspection and the AC tech went overboard.

Y'all have a great 4th celebration!


AC tech sounds iffy. BUT....Anti siphon missing is a safety and health issue. That's why that got marked. As a roofer, nail pops will leak if they aren't right now. Missing tabs indicate storm damage or aging shingles starting to fail. That's why that got marked. Both of these are going to be thorns in the side of the seller.

Realtors LOVE roof issues. Big ticket items with a lot of leverage.

Wouldn't realtors dislike/want to avoid all issues, especially roof issues? A deal is already done, any issues that come up in an inspection have a chance to disrupt that deal.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I honestly thought the roof would be the sticking point. It had been a full price offer and then they came back after the inspection with the amendment to fix roof shingles and nail pop as well as the full ac upgrade.

We offered $1500 in concessions to cover the eventual replacement of the evap coil and I said we would take care of the roof. Their counter was don't worry about the roof but $4000 in concessions for the AC.

After weighing the options and realizing they want to close by the 23 and to go back to market would cost time and additional carry costs, I think we are going to go ahead with that even though in principle it irks me. I am still going to check out the ac techs field notes tomorrow and see why he recommended that.

Anti siphon wasn't even brought up by buyer, just noted in the report I saw.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think it's double edged. They want to make sure the house is not a POS but also can't give any home a clean bill. So they need to have items, even if they're minor. It can also be a negotiation tool once the house is "under contract."

But the HVAC report now screws the buyers should anything go wrong in the first year. The home warranty that they are purchasing probably won't cover anything HVAC related because of his report. Oh well
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
htxag09 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

Goodnight Irene said:

Thanks guys, I think y'all are correct that it's functioning fine. That was my first thought too.

I did call the AC company that did the test and they are going to forward me the job site notes and pics taken by the technician when they're back in the office tomorrow. I am wondering how he came to the conclusion to replace the entire system so hopefully it does shed light on that.

My stance as the seller is we should address repairs and not upgrades. The only other issue was two tabs from a shingle missing and a nail pop at one of the stacks on the roof. He also noted our anti siphon had been removed. I have a feeling the home inspector was trying to give the buyers some meat and recommended an hvac inspection and the AC tech went overboard.

Y'all have a great 4th celebration!


AC tech sounds iffy. BUT....Anti siphon missing is a safety and health issue. That's why that got marked. As a roofer, nail pops will leak if they aren't right now. Missing tabs indicate storm damage or aging shingles starting to fail. That's why that got marked. Both of these are going to be thorns in the side of the seller.

Realtors LOVE roof issues. Big ticket items with a lot of leverage.

Wouldn't realtors dislike/want to avoid all issues, especially roof issues? A deal is already done, any issues that come up in an inspection have a chance to disrupt that deal.


Kinda depends on which side of the transaction they are on.

Yeah goodnight, looks like they were hitting the big ticket items. No one cares about roofing or backflow...but if the dang AC goes out it's a problem.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I received the field notes yesterday and there were a few discrepancies between those and the submitted report. The year model, the evap notes as dirty on one and clean on the other, and the notes saying system was fully charged but there was a coil leak. Everything tested in range and the system was operating but due to age and condition it needed to replaced.

So I called the service manager to ask how they arrived at the conclusion of upgrading the system. He told me the report was on the best interest of the customer and he was standing by the assessment. When I asked him about the leak detection versus it having a full charge noted, he basically said he didn't know but it could've been topped off beforehand (I didn't and also didn't appreciate the insinuation).

He wasn't budging and stood firm on his assessment. He even said the evap coil could be replaced but then they would be in the same boat down the road when the r22 got really expensive.

I did some Facebook snooping and the service manager that did the write up and recommendation is the Uncle of the lady who is buying our home with her husband!

Option period is over and we are under contract and they got $4000 in concessions because of this. I knew this whole thing didn't sit right
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Where the f- is your Realtor during all of this?
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Haha, he's working with me. He emailed the legal counsel that works with his realty company but probably won't hear back til Monday. I have no complaints about him. I'm treating this as an overzealous uncle trying to help out his niece rather than collusion between the parties.

I did email the uncle (he was included in the email to of the report from the hvac company) and pretty much laid out there was the undisclosed relationship and the fact I thought he exaggerated the report to get his niece some leverage. I told him I wanted to get his thoughts on how to make this right before I include anyone else.

He did reply "received and acknowledged I'll call you Monday. " So I will see how it goes. Any input?
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My input is to have no additional correspondence with anyone other than your Realtor. That's why you hired him. I never want my clients talking to the other party or parties. My contract is with my client and I'm the only one in the deal that has his financial interests as a top priority. Just my opinion.

I'm a Roofer and Licensed Realtor but I am NOT an HVAC professional

I guess the question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want to have a deal blow up because of 4,000 bucks.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As a realtor, what would you do in this situation? (Being serious not flippant )

Other than an egregious recommendation we had no thoughts there may be more to it. It was dumb luck that I was curious about the couple that made the offer and I happened to see her maiden name, which was the same as the hvac service manager I had spoken to, and even then it took a day to click.

The option period is over so I'm not sure what can be done regarding the sale. We agreed that the gamble of a quick sell and full price offer wasn't worth walking from this one.

Since you are in the profession, have you seen anything like this?
BrazosDog02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Well, I don't know how much the house is selling for or any particulars, but I do know that if it were my house, 4K isn't something I'm going to kick and scream over. Seriously.

What if the sellers uncle was a roofer? What if he said that missing shingle indicates wind damage and given the age of the roof, it should be replaced and that's going to cost 9,000 bucks? What if he was an EPA professional of some sort and insisted on some
Nutty test to verify the missing anti siphon hasn't let hazardous fertilizers to lay dormant in the plumbing system somewhere?

We can play what if all day long!

As for what I would have done...idve just talked frankly with my client. If he had said "man, that's ****ed up and my AC is working fine and I think they are full of ****" then I would have proceeded with the question I asked you.....is it worth losing the sale over? If it was, then I'd probably ask him if he wanted to pay for his own professional to refute the claim or just say "no deal".

In the grand scheme of things I think your AC issue and frustration is a matter of principal (and I agree with you) but probably not going to amount to a hill of beans otherwise. They wanted something to feel like they got a deal, and you wanted full price with willingness to give up a little for a quick sale. That's how negotiation works. They didn't get a brand new AC system and you didn't get full price ....

And I just had a coil replaced on a variable speed system and it cost double what you conceded for what that's worth.
Goodnight Irene
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's pretty much exactly how it played out in the discussions with my realtor. And you're right, it's the principle of the matter that's getting me. Appreciate the input!
EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sponsor
An A/C System leaking R-22 signals a replacement.

( R-22 is bad for the Ozone & usually equals higher bills)

If an A/C Tech spots a leak , it's most likely going to signal a replacement. R-22 is being Phased out and on Jan 1, 2020 things get stricter & costs to maintain an older A/C go up.

Many people buying homes are educated to avoid this headache along with the higher energy bills that get involved with an older system. A/C Systems often get grouped with roofs during the inspection/ negotiation part of the home buying process. If it's old, an inspection is likely going to point it out and circle it. Replacing 'part' of an older R-22 system doesn't always fix the issue or may not be what the buyer is really wanting.




GCRanger
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We are getting our coil replaced tomorrow. We are in Spring (north Houston) and the HVAC is 14 years old. We are planning to move this time next year if not a little sooner.

Summer 2018 we had the AC inspected by Morrow Mechanical and they said everything was working well for it's age, they topped up refrigerant, and mentioned the condenser is pretty rusty and will likely be the first thing to fail.

Fast forward to a week ago and we started to notice the AC was struggling to keep up during the day to keep the house (2200 sqft 1 story) at 75. It would catch up over night. Morrow came out this morning and inspected everything again. Refrigerant was very low and showing this at readings at the condenser and compressor. He used the sniffer and found the leak at the back side of the condenser. No leaks were found anywhere else.

They quoted us for a few things:

Condenser with new enclosure, plenum, pan, etc. : $3600 5-year warranty
- he mentioned the newer condensers don't fit in 14 year old enclosures so need to replace and redo how it attaches to heater/fan and ducts.

Condenser & Compressor - ~$8000 10- year warranty

Replace everything - single stage - ~$10,500

Replace everything - two stage - ~$14,000

We are going with the cheaper option, condenser only. If a seller wants some money for the rest of the older equipment than so be it, we'll deal with that then.
TexAg1987
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Goodnight Irene said:

That's pretty much exactly how it played out in the discussions with my realtor. And you're right, it's the principle of the matter that's getting me. Appreciate the input!
You could always make sure you left it in the condition he reported it to be. With a hole in the coil.
Page 1 of 1
 
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.