I want to do it myself - I am a pretty good plumber and it doesn't scare me at all.

Have you installed your own water softener for the entire house?

Did you run into any complications? What brand softener and type (sodium vs magnesium) did you use?

I expect this is a 3 hour job out of the box assuming I've planned well and have all the right piping for the modification - do you agree?

Note: My current home is GSP but I plan to convert most of it to PEX in the next 5 years (myself).

I'd like to keep it under $600 if possible.

Looking forward to reading your recommendations and advice.

I bought one of the traditional style from Lowes. We are building a house in the next year or so, so I didn't want a lot invested in it. I didn't put it in because we happened to have a plumber at the house doing something else and he did it on the side. It's an easy install though assuming you have good access to the water line coming in from the house. We have a basement so it made it super easy.

It works surprisingly well. I put a reminder in my phone to check the salt level on the 1st of every month. I can fill it up and almost make it 2 months without filling it up again. I put it through its cleaning cycle every four months.

When I buy the salt I have to haul it from the garage, through the house and down into the basement which while good exercise is a pain in the ass. I buy around 10-12 40lb bags at once so its only a couple times a year thing.

There are probably nicer options out there but like I said we went basic on this one and have been happy with the results. If I was going to be in the house longer I probably would've researched other options but thats not saying I wouldn't have ended up with the same one.

Interested in this as well, we are building and I believe one of the better ones out there is the Kinetico. Curious what others think

Ok just met with the local Kinetico, the range for them usually is between $2800-6400. Didn't realize that prior to posting initially.

I bought one at Moore Supply from these guys for about $700 if I remember correctly. Installed in less than 3 hours. Works great.

Charger water softeners

Isn't Moore Supply a distributor? Do they have a showroom in Houston that anyone has been to? Do they sell direct to the end user?

They are a distributor, but I have a contractor account with them for various projects I have done. I can send you a contact who can handle the order for you so you can pick up anywhere. I did see that Costco is carrying one that is similar and for about the same price.

When I called Culligan to replace my old one they quoted me about $2,500 I think. That is when I started shopping. The feature that I wanted is the "demand" function that goes into regen based on usage instead of a specified day and time. My father in law has the Kinetico and swears by it but it was something like $3k more than I paid.

Another thing that matters is flow rate so get the pipe ID to match your supply line to the house.

Bill in their Dallas office is good help for any questions. 1 877-968-7447

Ill check out Costco and Amazon

I like the idea of a smart regen that's based on useage

Just make sure it has a "FLECK"(sp) valve. Ive had comm and residential units for 30 + years

ForeverAg said:

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Ok just met with the local Kinetico, the range for them usually is between $2800-6400. Didn't realize that prior to posting initially.

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Those are good. Ours has been rocking strong maintenance free for 6 years. Just keep the brine tank topped up.

https://www.amazon.com/Fleck-5600SXT-Softener-Digital-Metered/dp/B00OGN3162/ref=sr_1_5?crid=RS21G8QR6CXQ&keywords=fleck+5600sxt+48%2C000+grain+water+softener&qid=1551279347&s=gateway&sprefix=fleck%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-5

EOT

nhamp07 said:

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https://www.amazon.com/Fleck-5600SXT-Softener-Digital-Metered/dp/B00OGN3162/ref=sr_1_5?crid=RS21G8QR6CXQ&keywords=fleck+5600sxt+48%2C000+grain+water+softener&qid=1551279347&s=gateway&sprefix=fleck%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-5

EOT

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This is the one I have saved on my amazon right now - have you used this one?

Yes, it really is a good softener for the price. It is metered and will regenerate based on usage but also has a setting where I have mine set to regenerate every 14 days if we haven't hit the usage mark.

Easy install, I did it myself. HD has some sharkbite softener connections that were easy to use. The onl other things you need to buy is lube for the gaskets and plumbers tape for some of the connections. Instructions were easy as well. I bought mine from 602abcWATER seller. They have great reviews and they prefill the resin tank. The others may, but I know they do.

nhamp07 said:

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Yes, it really is a good softener for the price. It is metered and will regenerate based on usage but also has a setting where I have mine set to regenerate every 14 days if we haven't hit the usage mark.

Easy install, I did it myself. HD has some sharkbite softener connections that were easy to use. The onl other things you need to buy is lube for the gaskets and plumbers tape for some of the connections. Instructions were easy as well. I bought mine from 602abcWATER seller. They have great reviews and they prefill the resin tank. The others may, but I know they do.

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I have a PEX crimper, so that's good.

Question about placement - I assume this goes outside from the main line before the stab-in into the house main supply - right after the shutoff valve - correct?

Mine is in my garage, but yes it is right after a shutoff valve that was put into the water line from the curb.

we had the fleck9000 system installed about a year ago. no complaints whatsoever and aside from having to add salt, done no maintenance.

Be aware that you will likely need to plumb new hose bibs as well. If your house isn't plumbed for a softener already, they likely come straight off the cold water lines. The problem is that watering with softened water is basically watering with salt water. It will destroy your lawn. You should cap your existing bibs.

Cap them? Why not just tee off before the softener? One of my bibs is right by the master shutoff, so that would be easy. Running new piping to the other two would be..... difficult.

What I am reading is that 1) there is less salt in a gallon of softened water than there is in a half a slice of bread; 2) modern softeners are not harmful to lawns; 3) using softened water on lawns does (obviously) increase operating costs due to more salt consumption

It's an older home though, and I just moved in, so I need to do some investigating to see if they potentially ran a separate loop for the outside water.

nhamp07 said:

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Yes, it really is a good softener for the price. It is metered and will regenerate based on usage but also has a setting where I have mine set to regenerate every 14 days if we haven't hit the usage mark.

Easy install, I did it myself. HD has some sharkbite softener connections that were easy to use. The onl other things you need to buy is lube for the gaskets and plumbers tape for some of the connections. Instructions were easy as well. I bought mine from 602abcWATER seller. They have great reviews and they prefill the resin tank. The others may, but I know they do.

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I did exactly this too after researching a bunch. Learned that Fleck was one of the preferred softeners for most plumbers. Bought that fleck 5600sxt off amazon and plumbed it myself.

Used sharkbites to connect to the already existing copper loop in the garage. Easy.

I installed one of the Fleck ones from Amazon about 2 years ago. If you have a place to connect it and run the drain it is very easy. If you don't have a place to tie in then it can be much more difficult. I have PEX piping and an exposed manifold so it was really easy to tie into. No complaints, it seems to do it's job just fine.

I should be able to tie in pretty easily, but getting hardwater re-routed to the hose bibs in my back yard will be a task due to the way it's currently plumbed (house built in 1982, so no separate water supply service loop).

The external hose bibs on the back of the house come directly from the bathroom on that side of the house.

This shouldn't be an issue if you are in Texas and how things are set up there but depending on how its plumbed make sure you don't run your sprinkler system through it. Seems obvious but better safe than sorry.

You can buy one online with a fleck for 1000 or so. Jebus....no clue what kinetico is or does but but lolno. 2800 bucks plus?! Make sure you get the free lube for your anus.

If you are building, why not look at whole home RO instead?

histag10 said:

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If you are building, why not look at whole home RO instead?

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Tell me more?

ForeverAg said:

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histag10 said:

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If you are building, why not look at whole home RO instead?

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Tell me more?

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Dont know the ins and outs, but my parents had a whole home ro system put into their house. Then no need for a softener. And you flush and shower in ro water. And then you dont have issues with water eating your fixtures when your softener is low, or have to deal with the highs and lows of water softener systems.

Look into the waste of the RO vs softener. Not sure what a softener is but my RO is 8:1. Not sure what a softener is. I dislike RO because it strips a lot of trace minerals I think people need.

Is RO softening or conditioning?

Softening = removing minerals / contaminants that co tribute to hardness

Conditioning = altering those minerals / cobtaminants to change the property of the water (so it doesn't stick to glassware, build scale, etc)

Reverse Osmosis is a filtration system.

A water softener is a conditioning system.

Episode IV said:

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Is RO softening or conditioning?

Softening = removing minerals / contaminants that co tribute to hardness

Conditioning = altering those minerals / cobtaminants to change the property of the water (so it doesn't stick to glassware, build scale, etc)

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Correct.

Softening = chemistry/science
Conditioning = Snake oil/magic

Has anyone used Cermaic Granuel systems? Not sure if that falls under the snake oil system or not but I know it's a conditioner and not a softener.

For example the bullet gets great reviews for "softening" and being small and compact and high flow; using Polyphosphate Crystals:

Triple Action Poly Salt Free Water Softener https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRAJWBW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZxaFCbB2BABXM

Episode IV said:

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Cap them? Why not just tee off before the softener? One of my bibs is right by the master shutoff, so that would be easy. Running new piping to the other two would be..... difficult.

What I am reading is that 1) there is less salt in a gallon of softened water than there is in a half a slice of bread; 2) modern softeners are not harmful to lawns; 3) using softened water on lawns does (obviously) increase operating costs due to more salt consumption

It's an older home though, and I just moved in, so I need to do some investigating to see if they potentially ran a separate loop for the outside water.

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You could tee off before the softener, and that is how houses preplumbed for softeners are done. As you mentioned, the other bibs' distance away from the tee is why I say cap them. Otherwise you will need to run a new line all the way to them which means a ton of drywall work. It would be easier to run pipe off your main underground and around your house than in it. Just be sure to stay under the frost line.

Modern softeners are harmful to lawns. The only ones that wouldn't be are saltless softeners, but they are more water conditioners because they aren't truly removing any minerals. While the salt per gallon is typically low, especially for human consumption considerations, how many gallons will you sprinkle your lawn with in a given year? A lot. That adds up. It's not that a single watering with softened water will kill your lawn, it's that a consistent watering over time will kill it. You also can't just remove salt from soil.

You can supposedly irrigate heavily to encourage runoff and discourage sodium build up, but that means a lot of wasted water. You could also use potassium chloride, but it's more expensive than sodium chloride. Another consideration is that naturally wet locations will get a lot of rain water that can help remove salt as offend a build up. I would not bet in that in Texas though.

Since water softeners are typically piped into a loop with an isolation valve, you could also just isolate the softener every time you want to water. When you eventually replace with pex, just pipe to your bibs then.

histag10 said:

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Reverse Osmosis is a filtration system.

A water softener is a conditioning system.

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Not exactly...

A softening system by definition removes hard minerals by replacing them with sodium through ion exchange.

A conditioning system modifies the minerals in the water and restructures then so that they do not cling to pipes or fixtures. Basically it crystallizes the trace amounts so that they are bound to each other and not free to bind to other things.

RO is indeed a filtration system.

BrazosDog02 said:

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You can buy one online with a fleck for 1000 or so. Jebus....no clue what kinetico is or does but but lolno. 2800 bucks plus?! Make sure you get the free lube for your anus.

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You should get a quote from Culligan. They actually throw the lube in for free, and will try to convince you that "it will pay for itself" over time.