Solar panels

3,101 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Builder93
G. hirsutum Ag
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Some of my neighbors started going to solar route and it got me intrigued. Help me think thru this please. I'm on energy ogre, the last 12 months I spent $2325 on energy including ogres fee, 2400 sqft house in south Texas. The company they are signing up with will finance the whole system for $199/month for 20 years no money down or up front if you pass a credit check. This system includes the solar system, a radiant barrier and a natural gas whole home generator for backup. Neighbors say they will likely get an energy credit or have no bill for 8 months and only have a small bill 4 months a year. No batteries on this system, solar during the day, normal power grid at night. Also has a person that helps you maintain the system. Outside of being in debt for 20 years this seems like a really good deal as I would be even money pretty much every year and would be protected from energy rates going up. I'm worried about system longevity and if I were to need a roof replacement (just got done last September after Harvey). Panels rated for 125mph winds and golf ball hail. Help me walk thru this process from all angles please. Thanks
JP76
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And if you move before 20 years?
G. hirsutum Ag
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That's something else I need to look into. We really like our neighborhood and have no real intentions of moving but we don't live in our dream house.
LostInLA07
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Which company is doing this?
G. hirsutum Ag
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Company called sweet water based in Victoria
ABATTBQ11
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JP76 said:

And if you move before 20 years?


Recover the installation costs in the price of the home and pay it off.
Mucho austin
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I looked into this with Solar City but it was. It available in my zip.

I would assume the price of the solar could be added to any sales price as quite an upgrade.

The financing looked attractive if the electricity produced balanced out, but how can you really know until you are all in.
ABATTBQ11
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My office has a huge rooftop system. The production estimates were right on.
Spore Ag
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Always wonder, what do you do if you have to replace your roof?
Lone Stranger
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The contract language is probably the biggest thing to be wary of in these types of systems. Lots of CA and AZ people have horror stories of not looking real close at the details in the contracts and then having delays and other issues doing things to their house or selling it.

*Lease or lease to own?
*Early termination penalties and fees if you sell your house before x date/years?
*What did you sign away if you miss a payment for any reason?
*Do they have to give you permission to sell your house?
*What if they give you a "lemon" that doesn't perform? What are their duties to mitigate your electric costs if any?
*Are their performance conditions where if something breaks and they don't fix it for 6 months they help you with the electric bill?
*If they go bankrupt what risks do you have in regard to touching their system to sell your house.

Those are just the tip of the iceberg to look for in the contract details and fine print.
nonameag99
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ABATTBQ11 said:

My office has a huge rooftop system. The production estimates were right on.
I assume you are in death valley

TMI
Guitarsoup
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That sounds like a lease and solar leases are absolutely terrible.
G. hirsutum Ag
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Why are they terrible?
JP76
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ABATTBQ11 said:

JP76 said:

And if you move before 20 years?


Recover the installation costs in the price of the home and pay it off.


Seems risky

Could trigger appraisal issue by trying to add $30,000-$40,000 to the sale price if sold early into the contract especially if a sub 300k home


OP, do some research on the diminishing efficiency of panels over a 20 year life span



Ikanizer
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You should do a quick reality check on this. Look at a solar panel DIY vendor's website and get some numbers to help you calculate how much power it will be feasible for a solar array mounted on your roof to generate. You take hours of sunshine/day for your zip code, the size of your appropriately facing roof (South), etc. You also need to know if the power company where you live will buy power from you when the meter runs backwards, which it should when you're not running your AC or other power hungry items. My guess is it will be a really good deal for the company getting $199 a month from you. I have a grid tied system installed on a cabin in Colorado (they have mandatory net metering in that state) where the $/kWh is double what it is in Texas. Based on 6 years of historical annual power use, the annual output of my array will be a little bit less than my total annual consumption. Simple payout will be in about 6 years. But I don't have air conditioning, only spend 6 weeks max there in the winter and I have a very nice wood burning stove. I did it more for fun than to make money.
Guitarsoup
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Seven said:

Why are they terrible?
Have you even tried googling it?

For one, the company is doing it because they get the 30% tax credit.
For two, when you sell the house, it is much more difficult with a solar lease because the buyers will have to agree to the lease terms. That will actually drop the value of your house, where if you owned them outright, you would increase the value of the house.

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/04/30/will-the-solar-lease-live-forever-or-flameout.aspx

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/booming-rooftop-solar-power-suffers-growing-pains/

So you spend $2325year on energy and want to spend $2400/year for 20 years on panels, but you will still have an electricity bill? I'm not great at math, but that seems like a **** deal. Panels for your house would not cost anywhere near $50k.
Guitarsoup
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JP76 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

JP76 said:

And if you move before 20 years?


Recover the installation costs in the price of the home and pay it off.


Seems risky

Could trigger appraisal issue by trying to add $30,000-$40,000 to the sale price if sold early into the contract especially if a sub 300k home


OP, do some research on the diminishing efficiency of panels over a 20 year life span




In Texas, adding solar panels cannot increase your taxable home value. Well, they will, but you get an exemption for the increased tax value.
G. hirsutum Ag
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I honestly haven't had much time to look into it yet. My grandparents have a system on their house and they have nothing but good things to say. That's about my only experience. The collective knowledge of like minded people is something I trust much much more than a blog page somewhere
Lone Stranger
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After you sign a solar lease, if/when you go to sell your house you are typically on the hook to pay off your complete 15 or 20 year commitment for electricity. ($200 x 12 months x years left of lease) In a bad lease there may be many more additional fees and penalties. Lets say you owe 15 grand to get out of your lease so you can sell your house. You either bite the bullet and pay for electricity you contracted for and aren't going to ever use or try to lay whatever costs you can onto the buyer. Smart agents and buyers understand you are between a rock and a hard place.

The appraiser can't value your house higher than a comparable house without solar because the solar is not owned by you and not a part of the permanent structure. When buyers go for a loan they have to bring extra cash to your deal over a similar/comparable property/square footage without solar. Maybe you are OK on a 600,000 plus house outside Austin in times of a sellers market where people wants to feelz good. You probably aren't on a 250,0000 house in central TX in a buyers market and your house sits because their are fewer people that can swing the deal on that increased upfront cost.

You can piss and moan about blogs all you want but like minded people often make bad decisions in groups to be a part of that group. Like I said earlier, it isn't the equipment and power you worry about....it is the contract language people sign and don't understand the risks that gets them in trouble in solar deals today.
G. hirsutum Ag
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This is great info, thank you. I think I'll let it play out and see how my neighbors works out and in the meantime I'll continue to focus on making my house as energy efficient as possible
hurricanejake02
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Let's put it this way - several large energy players stopped selling residential rooftop solar in Texas to focus on Cali and the Northeast - because electricity pricing in Texas is too cheap for residential solar to make sense.

The lease language often requires that the buyer of your home, should you decide to sell, must agree to the terms of the lease, pay a fee, and be qualified by the solar provider to take over your lease - otherwise, they encourage you to buy it out and offer it as an incentive to your home buyer. Here's the kicker - they typically won't tell you what it takes for your buyer to be "qualified" by them - they have no incentive to qualify a new lessor, because you're on the hook for the payment.

They'll make no guarantees about output of the system or panel degradation, but your payment will stay fixed throughout the 20 year term. Which means, even if it makes economic sense in year one, by year twenty you're paying them way more than you're getting out of the system.
Builder93
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I have been looking into this for a remodel on my own home. I think the only way it might be worth it in Texas is DIY. The markup from the solar companies appears to be huge. It can't be that hard if you understand basic electrical concepts.
Guitarsoup
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Builder93 said:

I have been looking into this for a remodel on my own home. I think the only way it might be worth it in Texas is DIY. The markup from the solar companies appears to be huge. It can't be that hard if you understand basic electrical concepts.
The electrical (at least tying into the grid) probably has to be done by an electrician. The other thing you need to know how to do is install the mounts on your roof. Pretty easy, but you probably don't want to throw on a ton of panels and then have leaks everywhere.
Ikanizer
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I put in a DIY system. You connect the feed from the solar panels to your breaker box by adding a switch. The power company required that I add one of their meters upstream of the tie in point. The power company converted the main meter so I would turn backwards when my solar array produces more power than I am using (feeding the excess back to the grid). I am not an electrician and I did all the wiring myself. Panel mounting on the roof is easy with lag bolts. After the state inspector came and looked at my work the power company came and installed the meter and I was in business. Not complicated. Certainly not something you would need to lease for 20 years.
Lone Stranger
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I've worked with a solar developer (doesn't do basic residential) near Canyon Lake that had an issue arise. He ordered panels and equipment from a manufacturer and between shipping and him receiving and getting installed the manufacturer declared bankruptcy. That means there is nobody to honor the warranty on those panels and related control equipment and he can't use them in the intended project. He has them sitting in a warehouse trying to figure out how to move them if any of you DIY folks are interested in trying to negotiate with him. Not sure what type of equipment or even if he can parcel them out into smaller arrays for residential rooftop without additional controllers, etc. You would have to ask. search for: Tera Volt Energy

Builder93
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Guitarsoup said:

Builder93 said:

I have been looking into this for a remodel on my own home. I think the only way it might be worth it in Texas is DIY. The markup from the solar companies appears to be huge. It can't be that hard if you understand basic electrical concepts.
The electrical (at least tying into the grid) probably has to be done by an electrician. The other thing you need to know how to do is install the mounts on your roof. Pretty easy, but you probably don't want to throw on a ton of panels and then have leaks everywhere.
Not concerned about tying into the roof competently....see username.
Guitarsoup
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Builder93 said:

Guitarsoup said:

Builder93 said:

I have been looking into this for a remodel on my own home. I think the only way it might be worth it in Texas is DIY. The markup from the solar companies appears to be huge. It can't be that hard if you understand basic electrical concepts.
The electrical (at least tying into the grid) probably has to be done by an electrician. The other thing you need to know how to do is install the mounts on your roof. Pretty easy, but you probably don't want to throw on a ton of panels and then have leaks everywhere.
Not concerned about tying into the roof competently....see username.


You probably aren't the only one reading this that has the same question.

You could also just be really into Bob the builder
Builder93
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Guitarsoup said:

Builder93 said:

Guitarsoup said:

Builder93 said:

I have been looking into this for a remodel on my own home. I think the only way it might be worth it in Texas is DIY. The markup from the solar companies appears to be huge. It can't be that hard if you understand basic electrical concepts.
The electrical (at least tying into the grid) probably has to be done by an electrician. The other thing you need to know how to do is install the mounts on your roof. Pretty easy, but you probably don't want to throw on a ton of panels and then have leaks everywhere.
Not concerned about tying into the roof competently....see username.


You probably aren't the only one reading this that has the same question.

You could also just be really into Bob the builder
So that was a universal "you".....
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