Questions to ask a Roofer

5,255 Views | 37 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by shalackin
1agswitchin4lanes
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AG
I'm getting a new roof thanks to Harvey, and I have a roofing guy that my parents used, who actually told them that their roof was repairable vs selling them a new roof via insurance.

However, my roof didn't fare so well.

So what are some of the common questions I should ask the roofer about workmanship, materials, method etc?

Are there things I should ask for/insist on?

My house was built in 98 and the roof was redone in 04 before I bought it. Its currently a staple down roof which I understand is illegal now. According to my roofer the previous roofer used a subpar material and the shingles are brittle.

TIA!
DadAG10
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Watchdog

Concerning hail in N. Texas, but some should also apply to S. Texas.
shalackin
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AG
Repair vs Replace.... that is a big debate in the industry. It is very possible a roof "doing your parents a solid" by doing a repair is actually doing more harm than good. But that all depends on the situation and the issues found on the roof. So I wouldn't blindly count that as such a favor that it makes them a great roofer. It might. But it also might not. So make sure you are doing everything you can to ensure they put a quality roof system on your home.

1. Tear-off.... make sure they are tearing off the shingles and the underlayment. They need to be able to inspect the deck to ensure everything is in good shape. The only thing that is acceptable to leave on is any ice/water shield that is adhered to the decking. As removing it can damage decking.

2. Materials... Make sure they are using synthetic underlayment, most brands are pretty good. Ice and water shield in all the valleys and under all the penetrations. As for shingles, stay away from the ones they say are cheaper, like Tamko and IKO, they are junk. The bigger brands are all a little different, but will have better quality. So use GAF, Owens Corning, Malarkey, or Certainteed and you will be fine. It is best if the roofing company you choose is certified in the brand you choose, as they can usually offer a better warranty because of that. Real starter course should be used on the eaves and rakes, not a field shingle in its place. Metal Drip edge should be installed on the eaves and rakes.

3. Installation.... For the underlyament, plastic caps are better than staples, but either is fine unless it is a installation specific warranty issue with the manufacturer. Underlayment should overlap 4 to 6 inches. Make sure they use the appropriate number of nails per shingle to get you the max wind protection. GAF for example requires 6 nails per shingle (seis clavos por teja) in order to get the maximum wind warranty. All vents, roof jacks should be replaced or atleast detached and reset so they have proper underlyament underneath them. Sidewalls and chimneys should be re-flashed with proper flashing.

4. Others and code compliance issues.... If you have a chimney on the house and it is 30" or larger in width, then you should have a cricket built behind if you don't already. If you have 1x8 deck boards, then you should have it removed and have OSB put down instead. Both of these should be paid for by insurance. As insurance companies are required to pay to put your roof on to code, unless there is a specific exclusion in your policy.
Gary79Ag
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AG
If you're having the decking removed and replaced for whatever reason, spend the extra bucks to get radiant barrier coated OSB installed...you'll thank me later in the summer time!
ftworthag02
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AG
ask to see the workers ss cards or work visas
AtlAg05
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AG
For the actual replacement day, be aware things on the side of your house have a high chance of being hit by falling shingles. Afterwards, having a decent magnet to pick up old nails is a must.
BrazosDog02
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AG
Everything Shalackin said is spot on. I don't do repairs. I do almost exclusively insurance claims but the roofing aspect is the same. You know who likes repairs? Insurance. I have been dealing with those crooks for a while now and I will argue them all day and into the wee hours of the morning until they cave for a total roof replacement. They don't like it but it's usually the only right way to do it.

We install Certainteed. Make sure your roofer is a certified installer for their preferred product. If he is, your roof will be properly installed AND you will maintain all warranties. Roofing is like anything else...it's only as good as the install.

Keep in mind that things like "nails per shingle" are dependent on manufacturers requirements. For ours, it's pitch dependent and product dependent. So if you get roofers out that start screaming about putting 12000 nails per shingle because it's required by law or other bull****, you can weed them out.

Other than that, it's a roof, it's not rocket science and frankly, it's hard to **** up, but it happens every day. And you just need to **** up once to screw up the whole job.

Another thing I like, which may not be possible with other companies, is that we have crews that work for us exclusively. The guy that does my house is the same one that does yours and the guy across he street. We don't shop at home depot for roofing supplies or crews.

If you are paying out of pocket, get a few quotes. I lost a great sale to a lady who went his "a friend" for 3000 less than me. It was glorious. He used factory seconds from multiple dye lots and her roof looks like it's camouflage. Oh well. Low end roof. 15lb felt. Metal valleys. It sucks. Point is, cheap is not good in anything.
DriftwoodAg
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AG
AtlAg05 said:

For the actual replacement day, be aware things on the side of your house have a high chance of being hit by falling shingles. Afterwards, having a decent magnet to pick up old nails is a must.
if you have any plants you care about, cover them with something hard
DadAG10
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BrazosDog02 said:

You know who likes repairs? Insurance. I have been dealing with those crooks for a while now and I will argue them all day and into the wee hours of the morning until they cave for a total roof replacement. They don't like it but it's usually the only right way to do it.



This is why carriers are moving to an "ACV" on roofs.

Full replacement is going away.
shalackin
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AG
Your roofing company should be covering your landscaping with protection boards or dumping off a area that doesn't have anything. You should have to cover things yourself. You should however, be responsible for moving moveable items out of the way. They should also be sweeping for nails daily, or atleast at the end of the job. That isn't 100% going to find every nail, but should get the majority.

I agree with the above on the redeck, spend the extra for Radiant Barrier, it is worth it. But make absolutely sure they tear off the old deck before putting it down or you have wasted your money. I cringe when I see people having radiant barrier put down as a deck layover. It only works with an air gap.

Insurance companies suck! And they will short you if you don't have a professional work your claim. I just took one this week from 10K to around 30K on a small exterior restoration job. Simply by adding the correct code related items that are required to properly put on a roofing system.

RCV isn't going away, but what is going to happen is the percentage deductibles are going to keep going up. We are already seeing 10% wind and hail deductibles in areas of Florida and Texas. That means people are going to start self insuring their roof. Which means the industry is going to move more towards retail and financing. So that means if you own a 500,000 home, your deductible alone is going to be $50K for your roof claim, which is insane.
DadAG10
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shalackin said:



RCV isn't going away, but what is going to happen is the percentage deductibles are going to keep going up.
RCV is going away in N. Texas, several carriers have already done so.

Yes, and deductibles will go up as well.
1agswitchin4lanes
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AG
Shalackin and BrazosDog and others,

Thanks so much for the information. Very helpful.

To be clear, the roofing guy that my parents were using actually was doing a repair for them due to the clowns at DirecTV messing their roof up. Their company has decent reviews, but I may go out for bids as well just to keep him honest....
Gary79Ag
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AG
Definitely go the bid route as I had 3 bids that were several thousand dollars apart.

The highest bidder I would have been paying for the name/advertizing of the roofer so I already figured he was going to be high. The other 2 were about a grand apart so I told the middle bidder I was going with the lowest bid. He already had done 2 roofs for me in the past and so told me his bottom line number was actually $185/square. After he remeasured, his revised bid was about a grand lower than the other guy so I went with him as I've been satisfied with his prior jobs and he did good by me on this one as well.

It's amazing how much difference there was between the bids!
shalackin
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If you paid $185/sq on a tear off, then you more than likely got what you paid for. And I would guess it isn't the quality of roof systems that many others put on. The only way they can get to 185 is by cheap materials, cheap labor, and/or cutting corners.

Prices are regional, but we are closer to $285/sq for a walkable with a standard arch shingle and go up from there. I know companies in other states that are booked for months at $700/sq.

Not trying to dog your roofer or your roof, to each their own, just seen what $185/sq gets you.
shalackin
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AG
On the roofing subject, I never understand why people race to the bottom on price for one of your homes most important features. Your roof is critical to protecting your most valuable asset. And people only want to try and get the cheapest company they can find. We lose jobs here and there to random crews going bottom dollar with pricing and it typically comes back to bite the homeowners. I will say we see a large sample size being in the industry, so there are probably some that end up ok, but when it ends up not being ok, it ends up costing the homeowner much more in the long run.
BrazosDog02
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shalackin said:

On the roofing subject, I never understand why people race to the bottom on price for one of your homes most important features. Your roof is critical to protecting your most valuable asset. And people only want to try and get the cheapest company they can find. We lose jobs here and there to random crews going bottom dollar with pricing and it typically comes back to bite the homeowners. I will say we see a large sample size being in the industry, so there are probably some that end up ok, but when it ends up not being ok, it ends up costing the homeowner much more in the long run.


I think most folks just aren't educated on the topic.. people don't seem to understand how much a good roof costs or what they get for the money. What makes a good roof or a bad roof? Why synthetic underlayment? Why do we install a roofing SYSTEM. Warranties?

It's "juse a roof" for a lot of people. Fortunately for many of my customers, I can point across the street and show our work. Other people just don't give a damn. It just needs to keep water put until they move next month. I had a guy last week that had no clue he had creased and missing shingles....and you could see it from the road. I love talking to people about it and watching the moment when it all starts to make sense.
Gary79Ag
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AG
shalackin said:

If you paid $185/sq on a tear off, then you more than likely got what you paid for. And I would guess it isn't the quality of roof systems that many others put on. The only way they can get to 185 is by cheap materials, cheap labor, and/or cutting corners.

Prices are regional, but we are closer to $285/sq for a walkable with a standard arch shingle and go up from there. I know companies in other states that are booked for months at $700/sq.

Not trying to dog your roofer or your roof, to each their own, just seen what $185/sq gets you.
Well, I'm a happy camper with my GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles that were installed by what I consider a quality installer with no cut corners, thank you very much! Yes, they did a single layer tear off, re-felted with 30 lb felt, installed a new drip edge and used nails...

GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles

JP76
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shalackin said:

If you paid $185/sq on a tear off, then you more than likely got what you paid for. And I would guess it isn't the quality of roof systems that many others put on. The only way they can get to 185 is by cheap materials, cheap labor, and/or cutting corners.


Prices are regional, but we are closer to $285/sq for a walkable with a standard arch shingle and go up from there. I know companies in other states that are booked for months at $700/sq.

Not trying to dog your roofer or your roof, to each their own, just seen what $185/sq gets you.



Where are people paying these kind of prices for roofing ?

California ?

For basic 30 year architectural shingle materials should be around $110-120 or less

Hell In 2004 I used to pay $36 a square for 30 year architectural shingles until oil went through the roof

A good 6 man crew can knock out a 40 square reroof in 10 hours.






JP76
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BrazosDog02 said:

shalackin said:

On the roofing subject, I never understand why people race to the bottom on price for one of your homes most important features. Your roof is critical to protecting your most valuable asset. And people only want to try and get the cheapest company they can find. We lose jobs here and there to random crews going bottom dollar with pricing and it typically comes back to bite the homeowners. I will say we see a large sample size being in the industry, so there are probably some that end up ok, but when it ends up not being ok, it ends up costing the homeowner much more in the long run.


I think most folks just aren't educated on the topic.. people don't seem to understand how much a good roof costs or what they get for the money. What makes a good roof or a bad roof? Why synthetic underlayment? Why do we install a roofing SYSTEM. Warranties?

It's "juse a roof" for a lot of people. Fortunately for many of my customers, I can point across the street and show our work. Other people just don't give a damn. It just needs to keep water put until they move next month. I had a guy last week that had no clue he had creased and missing shingles....and you could see it from the road. I love talking to people about it and watching the moment when it all starts to make sense.



So why synthetic underlayment?
BrazosDog02
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AG
First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed (and others) requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square. I've had insurance quote 400 a square recently....
JP76
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BrazosDog02 said:

First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square.


So which brand do you prefer?

I've seen some that cost more than 30lb felt and others that cost less

And how long has it been tested in the field through thousands of days of heat cycles?






shalackin
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AG
Gary79Ag said:

shalackin said:

If you paid $185/sq on a tear off, then you more than likely got what you paid for. And I would guess it isn't the quality of roof systems that many others put on. The only way they can get to 185 is by cheap materials, cheap labor, and/or cutting corners.

Prices are regional, but we are closer to $285/sq for a walkable with a standard arch shingle and go up from there. I know companies in other states that are booked for months at $700/sq.

Not trying to dog your roofer or your roof, to each their own, just seen what $185/sq gets you.
Well, I'm a happy camper with my GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles that were installed by what I consider a quality installer with no cut corners, thank you very much! Yes, they did a single layer tear off, re-felted with 30 lb felt, installed a new drip edge and used nails...

GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles



GAF doesn't even sell Driftwood in your region. Did you have it shipped in?

shalackin
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AG
JP76 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square.


So which brand do you prefer?

I've seen some that cost more than 30lb felt and others that cost less

And how long has it been tested in the field through thousands of days of heat cycles?







Almost every brand is better than organic. It is just better technology. For a standard roof, we pay $49/roll. That is a 10sq roll. The less expensive ones are Tarco, Peak or Shingle Dog. For higher end roofs we use Palisades or GAF Tiger Paw. Tiger Paw is about $125/roll for a 10sq roll. We are currently roofing a 300sq roof using Tiger Paw. It adds up quick on big roofs.

On your other comment, your material pricing is really low for a quality roof system.
JP76
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shalackin said:

JP76 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square.


So which brand do you prefer?

I've seen some that cost more than 30lb felt and others that cost less

And how long has it been tested in the field through thousands of days of heat cycles?







Almost every brand is better than organic. It is just better technology. For a standard roof, we pay $49/roll. That is a 10sq roll. The less expensive ones are Tarco, Peak or Shingle Dog. For higher end roofs we use Palisades or GAF Tiger Paw. Tiger Paw is about $125/roll for a 10sq roll. We are currently roofing a 300sq roof using Tiger Paw. It adds up quick on big roofs.

On your other comment, your material pricing is really low for a quality roof system.



What is your definition of quality roof system?

Are you saying the GAF above used by Gary are junk and won't last a minimum of 20 years ?
Gary79Ag
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AG
shalackin said:

Gary79Ag said:

shalackin said:

If you paid $185/sq on a tear off, then you more than likely got what you paid for. And I would guess it isn't the quality of roof systems that many others put on. The only way they can get to 185 is by cheap materials, cheap labor, and/or cutting corners.

Prices are regional, but we are closer to $285/sq for a walkable with a standard arch shingle and go up from there. I know companies in other states that are booked for months at $700/sq.

Not trying to dog your roofer or your roof, to each their own, just seen what $185/sq gets you.
Well, I'm a happy camper with my GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles that were installed by what I consider a quality installer with no cut corners, thank you very much! Yes, they did a single layer tear off, re-felted with 30 lb felt, installed a new drip edge and used nails...

GAF Timberline HD 33.33-sq ft Driftwood Laminated Architectural Roof Shingles



GAF doesn't even sell Driftwood in your region. Did you have it shipped in?


I just used the Lowe's ad to show the actual product my roofer used on our house. Yes, it was shipped in as he purchases all of his roofing supplies from ABC Supply, a local distributor here in the Sherman area.
BrazosDog02
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AG
JP76 said:

shalackin said:

JP76 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square.


So which brand do you prefer?

I've seen some that cost more than 30lb felt and others that cost less

And how long has it been tested in the field through thousands of days of heat cycles?







Almost every brand is better than organic. It is just better technology. For a standard roof, we pay $49/roll. That is a 10sq roll. The less expensive ones are Tarco, Peak or Shingle Dog. For higher end roofs we use Palisades or GAF Tiger Paw. Tiger Paw is about $125/roll for a 10sq roll. We are currently roofing a 300sq roof using Tiger Paw. It adds up quick on big roofs.

On your other comment, your material pricing is really low for a quality roof system.



What is your definition of quality roof system?

Are you saying the GAF above used by Gary are junk and won't last a minimum of 20 years ?


We use synthetic underlayment because it's a better product before, during and after install. It's lighter, easier for the crews to handle, installs cleaner, no buckling to transfer through shingles, it doesn't deform if wet, if we get caught unfinished, the deck is fine under a synthetic underlayment until we can complete the job, multiple reasons I like it better.

As I said, it's part of our ROOFING SYSTEM. We don't just throw up a roof. There are plenty of roofers that do if you want that...and they will do it cheap. I use Certainteed Landmark and Max Def palettes minimum if I can.
idAg09
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You guys replacing metal vent bases, storm collars, plumbing vents (leads or aluminum with rubber boots?), chimney caps, step flashings, etc. when you replace roofs?

Seems like every new roof I see these days is just tearing off the shingles, putting new underlayment and shingles, drip edge, and caulking existing surface mounted counterflashing.
shalackin
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AG
JP76 said:

shalackin said:

JP76 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

First and foremost, it's required as part of our roof system. Certainteed requires certain products to be installed for maintaining the warranty and for proper function. Synthetic underlayment is lighter it's safer to work on for my crew, it breathes, it doesn't hold water if a shingle tears off, it doesn't buckle if it gets moist, which means that wave won't transfer through the shingles, it's stronger, water resistance is superior .... etc.

Not sure what to say about cost but I can't install a roof system for 185/square.


So which brand do you prefer?

I've seen some that cost more than 30lb felt and others that cost less

And how long has it been tested in the field through thousands of days of heat cycles?







Almost every brand is better than organic. It is just better technology. For a standard roof, we pay $49/roll. That is a 10sq roll. The less expensive ones are Tarco, Peak or Shingle Dog. For higher end roofs we use Palisades or GAF Tiger Paw. Tiger Paw is about $125/roll for a 10sq roll. We are currently roofing a 300sq roof using Tiger Paw. It adds up quick on big roofs.

On your other comment, your material pricing is really low for a quality roof system.



What is your definition of quality roof system?

Are you saying the GAF above used by Gary are junk and won't last a minimum of 20 years ?
I can't answer that without having seen the roof and the installation. There are lots of places to get shingles that are either old or seconds, and not the quality people pay for. Did they have the underlayment under the drip edge on the rakes and over the drip edge on the eaves? Did they use Ice/Water in all the valleys? Did they use Ice/Water under each penetration on the roof? Was the deck in appropriate shape? Did they overlap underlayment the proper 4" to 6" that is required? Did they install the proper ventilation? Did they high/low nail any shingles? Did they use 4 nails or 6 nails? If it is a closed valley, did they properly install it an notch shingles to shed water correctly? Did they use starter strip or an upside down shingle? Did they install with a racking method? Did they make the appopriate cuts on each row in order to make sure the key ways are correctly lined up? Did they use new flashing?

As you can see there are a ton of things involved with correctly roofing a home. It doesn't mean that he got a bad job done at all, but it does show you what is involved.
shalackin
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AG
idAg09 said:

You guys replacing metal vent bases, storm collars, plumbing vents (leads or aluminum with rubber boots?), chimney caps, step flashings, etc. when you replace roofs?

Seems like every new roof I see these days is just tearing off the shingles, putting new underlayment and shingles, drip edge, and caulking existing surface mounted counterflashing.
We replace all flashings and rain caps with a new roof. Then paint everything to match the roof and protect the metal. The only thing on there we don't 100% of the time replace is the storm collars as they are not typically damaged. We reseal the storm collars. We do replace step flashing and roll flashing, build crickets when appropriate, and even counterflash if needed.
1agswitchin4lanes
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AG
Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I asked him a few questions, and he indeed installs Certainteed Landmark, and he is a "Select Shingle Master", his crews are all certified and they will be doing the whole system.
Gil Renard
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AG
Make sure they don't use staples for the roof deck and they use nails. Also make sure they gap the 4x8 sheets (1/8" roughly, you should see daylight around each seam and plywood clips do not give you a space. They're their to assist and for structural use
1agswitchin4lanes
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AG
Gil Renard said:

Make sure they don't use staples for the roof deck and they use nails. Also make sure they gap the 4x8 sheets (1/8" roughly, you should see daylight around each seam and plywood clips do not give you a space. They're their to assist and for structural use
Thank you sir!
Good advice all around!
cheeky
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AG
Quote:

So what are some of the common questions I should ask the roofer about workmanship, materials, method etc?

How long have you been out of prison?
1agswitchin4lanes
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AG
Stagecoach said:

Quote:

So what are some of the common questions I should ask the roofer about workmanship, materials, method etc?

How long have you been out of prison?
tgivaughn
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AG
If near Brazos Co, this story might help b/c my situation was same as yours + sugar ants + skylight curb concerns circa 1980. Josh Schulte of Navasota famed company was nice enough to come out & walk the roof with me, provided ALL the questions one could imagine to ask, then offered a myriad of options to solve things so I can force my needs/wants fat foot into my tight little show budget. I elected replace and SO GLAD I DID, as they found one thing after another hiding in wait to be a problem when weather would turn very bad - that they solved.
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