Water Softner/Whole House Filter

6,890 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by schmellba99
Bert315
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Bought a house last year in Katy and the water is extremely hard compared to where we were living. Wife has a skin allergy and the symptoms have gotten worse.

Do any of y'all have a water softner or whole house filter that you would recommend?
Cromagnum
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If you want a good system get a dual tank Kinetico setup with an undersink RO unit for drinking. Be prepared to fork out a few thousand though.
BrazosDog02
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I have a softener. I have a sediment filter for my well.

What do you want to know?
Bert315
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BrazosDog02 said:

I have a softener. I have a sediment filter for my well.

What do you want to know?


What system do you have? Did you start with a whole house or do the filter first and then add on? We still have some galvanized pipes in our home, do you know if this will have any negative effect on those?

Have you seen any benefits to having one?
jpb1999
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I have some of the same questions. My main question is the difference between Kinetico vs traditional salt system?
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Spane Bohem


Whitetail
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jpb1999 said:

I have some of the same questions. My main question is the difference between Kinetico vs traditional salt system?
About $3,000-5,000 to start
Cromagnum
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jpb1999 said:

I have some of the same questions. My main question is the difference between Kinetico vs traditional salt system?


A Kinetico IS a salt system.
jpb1999
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Ah yes, I see that now. I was thinking of something more like this:

http://www.easywater.com/no-salt?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*No-Salt%20Conditioner%20-%20Google&utm_term=water%20softeners&utm_adcode=0869&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI04H-m-jK1gIVkQFpCh0TLQUBEAAYAiAAEgKePPD_BwE&_vsrefdom=p.3125.c.67105

So basically Kinetico is just an expensive salt based water softener. The link above talks about not being a good idea to use a salt system on tankless water heaters? Said while it removes the lime/minerals, it adds some salt which can corrode the heating elements...

There is also this:
http://pursanova.com/

This is hard to explain (uses physics) and I have actually met the president/inventor. You can also youtube some videos about this company and some products.
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Long Live Sully
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I bought a unit at Moore Supply for about $700 and installed it myself. You can buy a similar one at Costco. My salt use was cut by 80% over the Culligan system I had prior. The key is to get one that has a controller that regenerates only when usage calls for it.
Bert315
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Since we still have some galvanized pipes in our home is it best to go with a saltless system? We have replaced a majority of the horizontal pipes in the attic but not ones in the walls.
Flashdiaz
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I have Dupure and wouldn't recommend it. But I do recommend a salt water system in katy.
Bert315
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Flashdiaz said:

I have Dupure and wouldn't recommend it. But I do recommend a salt water system in katy.


Why salt over saltless? Excuse the ignorance, just starting to learn about water softners.
jpb1999
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I have the same question... also no one with info on the easy water system linked above?
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BrazosDog02
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Bert315 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

I have a softener. I have a sediment filter for my well.

What do you want to know?


What system do you have? Did you start with a whole house or do the filter first and then add on? We still have some galvanized pipes in our home, do you know if this will have any negative effect on those?

Have you seen any benefits to having one?



My house already had the system. It's a standard water softener with a 40,000 grain capacity. I have a sediment filter for my well since it pumps a little sand.

Benefits....well, yes....you can wash clothes clean, you use less soap and you get clean, no scale in my shower, water heater requires almost no maintenance....there's no reason not to have soft water. It won't hurt your galvanized pipes. At this point, they are already bad and you won't make them worse. That's another benefit.

If I had to replace it, I'd get one online from watersofteners.com or whatever and I'd install it myself for less than 2k. I don't need a snake oil salesman or any of the hokey "no salt" systems that have no scientific data available to get it done.
Prune Tracy
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Cow Hop Ag said:

I bought a unit at Moore Supply for about $700 and installed it myself. You can buy a similar one at Costco. My salt use was cut by 80% over the Culligan system I had prior. The key is to get one that has a controller that regenerates only when usage calls for it.

Cuno CWS150ME with an in line Aquapure filter acting as a catch for any big debris in the water. $700 from Moore is about right and they're really not terribly hard to install.
jpb1999
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The CWS150ME is discontinued per their site. New model is called 3MWTS200-125. Called the installer that came up on their wesbsite (only one in the area), and he recommended another brand from Nelson Corporation. His installed system would cost $2095, but included everything and is top of the line, and he has been doing it for 38 years. Sounds good, but a little more than what I wanted to spend.

I called Moore Supply and they sale Nuvo systems now. They use citric acid, so not a salt system. About $750. Have to replace a cartridge every 50,000 gallons at $80 cost. A little leery as it is not a normal salt system... does it actually work. What does it do health wise adding citric acid to water (I know it is what is in lemon juice, but still)?

I looked at the Costco site and didn't find much. They have a Hahn whole home for about $1300, but with bad reviews.

Any other recs to look at?
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HumpitPuryear
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I bought a Waterboss from Home Depot and installed it myself. I've been very pleased with it. It's a smart unit which means it regenerates based on actual usage. I'm on a shallow well that has lots of iron and sulfur so I have a graduated paper filter and carbon filters in front of the water softener. I use a salt from Home Depot that also controls iron. That combination has cleaned my water up completely. Could not be happier with it.

Also, if you are concerned about the salt use potassium chloride pellets instead of sodium chloride. It's more expensive but eliminates sodium (salt) in your treated water. It supposedly has health and environmental advantages over sodium chloride too.
cpscAG06
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https://www.pureeffectfilters.com/filter-units/pure-effect-ultra-whole-house.html
strohag
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Look into a Watts OneFlow or OneFlow+. Available at Moore Supply.
jpb1999
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Do you have one? Any feed back on the Oneflow on how it works?? Any hard water issues or spots?
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BrazosDog02
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The difference is that the watts and nuvo are conditioners, not softeners. Softeners use salt and remove calcium and magnesium from the water. I prefer these. Water is slippery and you use less spa because it cleans properly. Conditioners do not remove anything but rather keep those ions from reacting. Some use citric acid. They may all use it. I'm not sure but if a manufacturer cannot tell me what or how it works, it's snake oil. Watts and nuvo seem to be legit and work. I assume both use a form of acid since it actively removes scale.


Read up on both and see which will fit your needs.

Softeners require drains, electricity, they wear out eventually, they need salt....conditioners do not.

For me, cost is the driver. I buy salt 20 bags at a time from lowes. You can get them for 2 bucks a bag if you find the damaged ones.
jpb1999
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Yes, the Nuvo uses citric acid but not sure what the Watts uses yet, but both are saltless. I am a civil engineer that deals in water treatment, so familiar with water treatment, but have no idea how the saltless systems work.

Concerns with salt systems is adding salt, albeit a very small amount, to water that you drink and how does that effect a tankless water heater, and the flushing. Do you flush into a septic or flush in the yard? Concerned withdoing either...

Cooncerns with saltless, do they actually work, what do the chemicals added do to human body, probably would like the soft water feel, wife wants a softener, and do the treated hard water particles resettle if just sitting in a pipe?

Decisions, decisions....

Co
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BrazosDog02
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Well, first off, you don't get "salt" in your water. It's ion exchange you get sodium in your water. If that's a problem, you can get potassium chloride salt so that potassium goes in your water instead. Tried and true. Mine uses sodium and I have three tankless heaters and no issues. Like I said..it's just ions...not salt.....not saltwater. Sodium.

The citric acid is different. It does go into your water but you won't taste it. This system does not remove magnesium or calcium ions like the salt system. Instead it renders them inert so that they stay in solution and do not react. The side benefit to acid is that it actively cleans your fixtures. You will need to read up on the citric acid as I am not versed beyond what I explained here and it may not be completely accurate. I do know that you don't get soft water from this system. Its not possible due to the very definition of water hardness.


But salt systems have brine that has to go somewhere. For me, it's into the pasture.

Magnesium and calcium are not bad for you. In facct, it's probably a solid part of your diet so keep that in mind if you care.

If you find good info n water conditioners, post it, I'm interested.
jpb1999
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Any updates on anyone with a Nuvo or Watts Oneflow?

About to have to make decision on salt or saltless system.

Starting to lean to salt because I want the soft feel... but if I go that route I now have to think how to discharge. Can salt go into septic? I don't think I can discharge in yard. If no salt in septic, I guess I have to use more expensive option of potassium. What is yearly cost difference of the 2?
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kapon
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i need one for new construction as well.
at current house I have a rainsoft.
GIG 'EM!
Cromagnum
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BrazosDog02 said:

Well, first off, you don't get "salt" in your water. It's ion exchange you get sodium in your water. If that's a problem, you can get potassium chloride salt so that potassium goes in your water instead. Tried and true. Mine uses sodium and I have three tankless heaters and no issues. Like I said..it's just ions...not salt.....not saltwater. Sodium.

The citric acid is different. It does go into your water but you won't taste it. This system does not remove magnesium or calcium ions like the salt system. Instead it renders them inert so that they stay in solution and do not react. The side benefit to acid is that it actively cleans your fixtures. You will need to read up on the citric acid as I am not versed beyond what I explained here and it may not be completely accurate. I do know that you don't get soft water from this system. Its not possible due to the very definition of water hardness.


But salt systems have brine that has to go somewhere. For me, it's into the pasture.

Magnesium and calcium are not bad for you. In facct, it's probably a solid part of your diet so keep that in mind if you care.

If you find good info n water conditioners, post it, I'm interested.


You don't have just sodium ions or just potassium ions without counterions in your softened water. If that were true you would have an abundance of hydroxide from the water and your system would be very alkaline.
jpb1999
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Well I am probably going with a GE unit, and initially giving potassium a go at first at least.

It was down to either the GE or the citric acid Nuvo system. I want to like the citrus system, but for some reason I just can't do it.
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RightWingConspirator
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We went with a Rainsoft system. It was expensive. It ran us a tad more than $5,000.
schmellba99
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I have an Aquasana Rhino, next major project at the house will be installing it. The actual installation won't be an issue, other than the moron that built my house didn't put a soft water loop in during construction and that just makes routing the main coming in that much more work for me. Can't believe there isn't a loop already installed.

I didn't want anything electronic, this is strictly a mechanical system. Pre-filter to catch big stuff, conditioning media and carbon filtering, then a non-salt softener with a post filter. Pretty simple. Main conditoner and filter will last over 1MM gallons, not sure on the non-salt softener yet, but hoping to get at least 3 years between tank exchanges.

I do water and water treatment, many of the systems here are solid. Many are overpriced, and the engineers that I worked with either recommended Aquasana or the Pelican, and there wasn't enough difference to me to justify the price difference with going to Pelican.
tsuag10
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If I'm in BCS and our water is already fairly soft, I don't really need a water softener, correct?

What about a whole-house filtration system? Would that be beneficial for appliances? Or should I just do a filtration system under the kitchen sink?
Enviroag02
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How do non-salt "softeners" get away with being called softeners in the first place?
tsuag10
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tsuag10 said:

If I'm in BCS and our water is already fairly soft, I don't really need a water softener, correct?

What about a whole-house filtration system? Would that be beneficial for appliances? Or should I just do a filtration system under the kitchen sink?
Bump, in the hope that I can get some input on the above questions. TIA.
bkag9824
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There seem to be a few versions of this product, which one would you recommend?

Filter system
Filter system + descaler
Filter system + descaler + UV

For background, I'm going to install in Fulshear (no clue on hardness, but have been told by friends that already live in development that water is hard)
schmellba99
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Enviroag02 said:

How do non-salt "softeners" get away with being called softeners in the first place?
Because a softener is just a term used to condition the water, nothing more. Some use salt to exchange ions, others use different processes to keep the dissolved minerals from binding or precipitating out.

FWIW, mine is labeled as a a "descaler".
schmellba99
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bkag9824 said:

There seem to be a few versions of this product, which one would you recommend?

Filter system
Filter system + descaler
Filter system + descaler + UV

For background, I'm going to install in Fulshear (no clue on hardness, but have been told by friends that already live in development that water is hard)
Rhino 1000 Filter + descaler

I paid for the pro upgrade kit, but mostly because I wanted the pre and post filters as well. I didn't use any of the fittings for that kit outside of the filters themselves.

The UV is designed for those on a well, if you have water from a purveyor (city, community well owned and serviced by a purveyor, etc.) then there isn't really a need for it IMO as the treatment and chlorination process is going to kill off any bacteria that may be present in your well or aquifer before it ever gets to you.
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