Menards, Home Depot face lawsuits over descriptions of lumber size

3,739 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Matsui
jamesf
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From the stupid lawsuit files.

Quote:

Menards and Home Depot stand accused of deceiving the lumber-buying public, specifically, buyers of 4x4 boards, the big brother to the ubiquitous 2x4.

The alleged deception: The retailers market and sell the hefty lumber as 4x4s without specifying that the boards actually measure 3 1/2 inches by 3 1/2 inches.
TexAg1987
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Loser pays. We need this soon.


I am almost certain that the labels at the big box lumber stores are marked 4x4, 2x4, 1x6 not 4"x4", 2"x4", 1"x6"

They might as well be suing that they thought they were 4 foot x 4 foot. idiots.
Dr. Venkman
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Quote:

The alleged deception: The retailers market and sell the hefty lumber as 4x4s without specifying that the boards actually measure 3 1/2 inches by 3 1/2 inches.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weather-Common-4-in-x-4-in-x-12-ft-Actual-3-5-in-x-3-5-in-x-12-ft-Pressure-Treated-Lumber/4745723

Severe Weather (Common: 4-in x 4-in x 12-ft; Actual: 3.5-in x 3.5-in x 12-ft) Pressure Treated Lumber
Matsui
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I hope this at least gets them to change the labels so they represent the actual size.
Satellite of Love
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Matsui said:

I hope this at least gets them to change the labels so they represent the actual size.

Why? You should be an adult and learn what you are buying. Hell there are tape measures in both stores that you can use to confirm if unsure.
sts7049
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what a waste of taxpayer resources
chickencoupe16
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If I'm not mistaken, Lowe's has already been sued for this which is why they now include actual dimensions.
Aggietaco
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chickencoupe16 said:

If I'm not mistaken, Lowe's has already been sued for this which is why they now include actual dimensions.
According to the OB, that's correct.
Long Live Sully
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USA. Home of the stupid.
Matsui
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You don't assume a gallon of milk is 7/8 of a gallon. Milk companies and retailers would get in trouble for that. same.
AgLA06
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Matsui said:

You don't assume a gallon of milk is 7/8 of a gallon. Milk companies and retailers would get in trouble for that. same.


You sure about that?
AgEngineer72
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It's no different than "trade sizes" in pipe and tubing, for example. Is that next? Suing because 1/2" pipe isn't 1/2"? Bottom line- if you're gonna mess with technical, application specific materials you need to get educated.

Interestingly related- when I worked in South America a lot I saw they studded up walls with rough sawn lumber that looked to be about true 2x4. Their attitude was " why go to the expense of sanding/planing material to be covered up in a wall." Kinda hard to counter that argument. They did say the sawn dimensions were consistent in the trade materials.
JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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Matsui said:

You don't assume a gallon of milk is 7/8 of a gallon. Milk companies and retailers would get in trouble for that. same.


Not the same. One would be based purely on deception.

The other is a known part of the process and not hidden at all.

I'm fine if they want to label the real dimensions, but to play this up as some sort of "they're tricking us" angle is a little bit silly.
Ol_Ag_02
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Matsui said:

I hope this at least gets them to change the labels so they represent the actual size.


If you have any opinions on the baker's dozen, I'd love to hear them.
91AggieLawyer
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Not worried so much about size (you can make your own jokes there) but that the quality of wood at these places sucks.
62strat
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Matsui said:

You don't assume a gallon of milk is 7/8 of a gallon. Milk companies and retailers would get in trouble for that. same.
Have you sued Apple because your 128gb iPhone only really has 124gb?


I'm suing my liquor store because I bought 80 proof alcohol and it's only 40%. I also bought a fifth of Jack, and it's only 750ml but a 1/5 gallon is 757ml.






BlackGoldAg2011
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are you also going to sue that your half pound burger was only a half pound before it hit the grill but not when it was delivered to your table?
Absolute
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That is absurd.
schmellba99
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91AggieLawyer said:

Not worried so much about size (you can make your own jokes there) but that the quality of wood at these places sucks.
That is a function of the modern method of tree farming and harvesting at a much younger age than what was harvested 100+ years ago.
Deats99
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Some of the replies on here are absurd. The measurement is the actual, rough sewn log is closer to the 2x4 everyone is comfortable with. Through the process of finishing and drying they shrink. My 7 year old knows this.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
Matsui
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All I'm saying is put the actual dimensions on the label. That could be misleading to some people. Not everyone is well versed in wood sizes.
Long Live Sully
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Then they have no business buying it much less using power tools to cut it.
Matsui
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That really makes no difference.
Long Live Sully
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Actually it does. You see the construction of a house depends on the sizing of studs, sheathing, window and door jamb depth as well as trim dimensions. You can't introduce nominal size building material into the mix.

So if you don't know this you can't build correctly.
Matsui
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I think the argument is to correctly label the dimensions on the sell rack. Not to change the actual dimensions.
Absolute
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How does not being well versed on it get to a lawsuit? Make no sense. What are they claiming, that they were misled into buying the wrong wood or cheated somehow? That there is some lumber conspiracy going on? Omg the terrible mental anguish they must have endured.

Can't say I have looked, but I would have sworn that they do have the actual dememsions on the label at the stores.

Sometimes, alarmingly more frequently, the ignorance and blame everyone else attitudes of people of this country make me sick. How on earth could this be considered a legitimate judiciary concern with all that is f'd in this world?
Matsui
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It is similar to how we have accurate food labels and weights on food products. I'm guessing that same realm. If a container says 8 oz it better have 8 oz in it or the store labelers and vendors are in trouble.
Deats99
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They do. That is the nominal dimensions after cutting. So you you are suggesting that once a gain one group, a majority of wood workers that know what they are doing and understand lumber sizes, change the way things are done to facilitate a minority, a group of idiots that do not know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Sounds logical to me!
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
Deats99
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Matsui said:

It is similar to how we have accurate food labels and weights on food products. I'm guessing that same realm. If a container says 8 oz it better have 8 oz in it or the store labelers and vendors are in trouble.
But it is not the same. You are talking about pansy-ass bakers. We are discussing manly men that can actually operate power tools without wetting themselves and are smart enough to understand that lumber varies in size and that the only guaranty is that it was originally cut to 2"x4" dimensions at the factory.

These folks are the same *****es that get upset over the settling of potato chips.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
Deats99
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On a side note Bob Segner will be coming out of retirement and continuing the thread on this topic in the near future.
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
Deats99
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Matsui said:

That really makes no difference.
Oh but it does, and if you can't understand the issues at hand then you have no business discussing it. See it works both ways.

You are probably one of those metric guys also, huh?
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
Matsui
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Kilometers work!
schmellba99
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Matsui said:

It is similar to how we have accurate food labels and weights on food products. I'm guessing that same realm. If a container says 8 oz it better have 8 oz in it or the store labelers and vendors are in trouble.
Piss poor analogy.

Because the nominal weight of the food, say a steak, is on the label. But once you cook it - it's no longer the weight shown on the label. Funny how that works.
Absolute
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If anything, I think the food comparison shows how ridiculous it is. 2 by 4 is not a actual dimensional description really, it is a name. Food labels are one of the most misleading (intentionally most of the time) common labels we see, as manufacturers intentionally try to make things seem like they are something they are not. Low fat, whole wheat, less sugar, blah blah.

Bought a bottle of grapefruit juice on vacation last week. Brand name, large print all over saying real juice, not from concentrate, 100 juice, etc. Then in fine print on the back it says ], may contain OTHER fruit juices. So my grapefruit juice was REALLY white grape and Apple with a splash of grapefruit presumably because that is much cheaper fro them to produce. Though no savings was passed on to me. Presumably they got the ounces correct, but who really cares. I paid what I paid for whatever amount I got in that container and am not going to double check it. To suggest that food labeling like that is held to a high standard is BS.

I still fail to see how a person's ignorance about lumber dimensions translates into any type of intentional misinformation and something that has any real basis for a lawsuit. Who was harmed? Who was intentionally misleading their consumer? It is frivolous and ridiculous.

Perhaps it is time that some responsibility for educating ones self about a particular area be on the person, not the seller or manufacturer to put ridiculous warning labels on it. Caution the sharp edge of this knife will cut your skin. don't point the gun at yourself and pull the trigger. Don't put this plastic bag in your babies cradle as a toy.

Time to thin the herd.
Matsui
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That fine print is what allows the manufacturer to add other juices. Now we just need fine print on the labels of 2 x 4 saying actual dimensions are 1.5 x 3.5.
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