Removing Column - Need DFW professional

1,994 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by tgivaughn
NawlinsAg05
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As part of my bathroom remodel, I'm trying to remove a column. Much to my displeasure, I found two double 2x12 headers running across the column. There's definitely weight coming to the headers, I just have no way to know how much weight the column itself is holding, or if it's needed at all.

Does anyone have recommendations for someone I can call out to look at this and let me if the existing headers are strong enough without the header as is, or if I need to go back and beef up the header before removing the column. Location is Keller, TX. Thanks.

beachfront71
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AG


Is there another floor above this room or is it an attic?
NawlinsAg05
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There's another floor, but it's a bit odd. The second floor exterior wall actually aligns about 2 feet past this column/header spot. It aligns between this header and the first floor exterior wall. Not sure if I'm explaining that very clear or not.
AgEngineer72
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NawlinsAg05 said:

There's another floor, but it's a bit odd. The second floor exterior wall actually aligns about 2 feet past this column/header spot. It aligns between this header and the first floor exterior wall. Not sure if I'm explaining that very clear or not.
Extends 2 feet past on which side? Toward the window or toward the house interior? What is the length of the header in the bathroom?

Please take another picture slightly closer to the column so we can see its interior a little better. Based on this picture the column does not look like a true structural element. It kinda looks the column is only a box to create a cosmetic feature. It may be a box to hold drywall in a faux column.
beachfront71
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also might be good to know if any other interior/exterior walls align with this one outside of this room and if the rest of second floor fall in the same "in between" area as described above..
NawlinsAg05
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The second floor exterior walls falls about 2 feet past this wall/column towards the window. My guess is that the second floor is being supported by this wall/column in question with the floor joists extended past the support in a cantilever type of fashion.

So the column to be removed is support a total of 4 2x12 headers (2 on each side of the wall). The pictures may be able to help show it better.

Corps_Ag12
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That looks like a cosmetic column to me. My bet is it's being supported by the wall adjacent to the shower.
JP76
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Are those 3 studs under each 2x12 beam on the left arch where you have not demoed the drywall?
AgEngineer72
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Those vertical members in the forefront look like 2x3s. Can't tell about the ones in the back.

A header constructed from doubled 2x12s is a common configuration for spans over windows and doors, including 16 ft garage doors. Two such headers in close proximity but independent is a little unusual but suggests it is designed for quite a bit of load. Your column still doesn't look like a true structural element, particularly considering the short span across the bathroom, but I would proceed carefully.

beachfront71
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1. does the oustide wall you describe above this room extend to any other rooms adjacent to bathroom
2. does the 2x12 header extend to other rooms next to bathroom
3. what is span of 2x12? Looks to be approx 10 feet?
4. which way do floor joists run for second floor?
NawlinsAg05
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beachfront71 said:



1. does the oustide wall you describe above this room extend to any other rooms adjacent to bathroom
2. does the 2x12 header extend to other rooms next to bathroom
3. what is span of 2x12? Looks to be approx 10 feet?
4. which way do floor joists run for second floor?
I've included a sketch below to help answer these questions and paint a more clear picture.

1. The second floor exterior wall is also in between the closet and bonus room, but does not extend down into the master bedroom (bottom of page)
2. I would assume the same type of header is in the wall/archway between the closet and bonus room (top of page).
3. do not know exact measurements, but 10-12' seems about right.
4. Floor joists run perpendicular to header.



AgEngineer72
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Nice sketch- really clarifies your configuration. No doubt the header is load bearing, which we already knew.


I'm still of the opinion the column is cosmetic. Your sketch confirms that further since the overhead load seems evenly distributed across the bathroom but the column is not centered. If it were mine I would probably take the column out after really checking it out first hand. But I won't recommend that to you because I don't want someone to risk a disaster on my internet review. Would like to see you get a structural guy to look at it.
beachfront71
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Even if the column is load bearing and you have to keep it, I doubt you need all of it and there could be ways to incorporate a smaller version/ slimmer profile into a new design depending on what you ended up planning for the bathroom in your other thread...

regardless, if you are going to get a structural engineer to document calcs, etc., you will most likely need to draw all this out the best you can with accurate measurements.
Superdave1993
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Another thing to consider is that the floor joists may actually span all the way to the exterior wall. I know that this is fairly common to do because it eliminates any cantilever that would be holding up additional roof loading from above. If that is the case, you should have no problem removing the column.
Aggie1
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Put in temporary bracing/columns and take out the existing... then, carefully kick out the temp... If any movement or creaking occurs - bit by bit - say, over a couple of days... You are probably good to go...

You can always put a header beam across too even though it will be lower than the existing ceiling - but above any headroom requirement...
YellAg2004
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Even if it is determined that the column is load bearing, that would be a pretty straight forward installation for a new, beefier header, or you may be able to just sister another 2x12 to get the capacity you need.
NawlinsAg05
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So I've been able to calculate the load going to the beam, but I'm having trouble finding good load tables that I could use to see what a total of 4-2x12s can handle over a 10' span. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this next step?
Convincingly
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Double up the red line in your graph and then use hangers to attack existing 2x12into new ceiling header
AgEngineer72
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Nawlins- I suspect folks have quit chiming in because this is a bit unusual structural configuration and they're hesitant to offer advice. I'm an engineer with a Texas P.E. but not a structural P.E. so technically out of my area of expertise. However I have done some of this work and willing to offer my thoughts that may help move you along. Consider these points-

1. You don't have 4 2x12s. You have 2 laminated beams each comprised of 2 2x12s. I'll point you to some tables and you may need to know that.
2. These 2 beams are independent and don't serve the same load bearing as a 4ply laminated beam. They can twist, sag, or warp separately under load. If they were to be "locked" together they would serve pretty much as a single 4 ply beam. Your current column partially serves that purpose and it shortens the overall span into 2 shorter spans. You can put in some cross blocking on about 24" intervals that should help.
3. I'm not sure how you calculated the load but an overhead room that is occupied and used regularly represents a 'live' load. You will need to factor that in when looking at tables and guidelines.
4. It will help to know what type of wood the 2x12s are. They may be marked but you can generally tell by looking. It's likely Southern Yellow Pine but there's also a lot of lighter white pine around. For this purpose it's better if they're SYP.
5. I'm not where I can get to my links but Google 2 things for now-
a. Search for wood beam load and span tables. LP has some very good and easy to use tables online for SYP. Southernpine.com is another good site.
b. Search for wood structure design guide. Can't remember exact name but that's close. It has decent explanations and some tables.

You will need will need to measure the span for the tables. You will also need to know what deflection to use- I think you will use L/240 but gotta check that.

Lot to throw at you but a place to start to get you going.

tgivaughn
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1) only listen to licensed engineers in this case
2) someone licensed needs to visit your situation and may need to "discover" more via peek-a-poo demolition/holes
3) you would be blessed/lucky if the lumber yard would send out a TJI rep. on his next sales call to visit your problem with his tables of what his beams can span/do/solve ... then the lumber yard could send out a framer with the lift tools & know-how to install whatever has been ordered for you

If you won't pay a few hours for a structural engineer's visit, why take a chance?
https://engineers.texas.gov/search.php
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