Things are pretty slow with the current project until countertops come in, and finally shower glass, so I decided to start taking care of in-between project stuff like our hurricane-battered fence and take care of the groundwork on our next adventure. This will be the original three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and adding a tankless water heater.

[garage apartment protected]

We decided to try and make this part of the house look like it did when it was new. That means putting the floorplan back the way that it was. To build a hallway that no longer goes anywhere a hall closet, built in hamper, bedroom closet and 18" from a bedroom were removed. That shouldn't be hard to undo. For the bedrooms are also pretty easy - getting rid of the crappy molding and fixtures previous owners installed, stripping layers of paint from things and taking care of the structural and electrical stuff I've done almost everywhere else so far. The bathrooms are the only place I get to be a little creative. I've sourced loads of original fixtures in blue and green, and even found someplace that sells tile that matches.

Utility changes are small this time around, only a tankless water heater and replumbing the hot water line that runs the length of the house. It has a pinhole leak under the kitchen at a T, and because the water heater will be relocated to a different corner of the house the flow direction for will be reversed. The only other things being added are bathroom exhaust fans where there are none.

The project plan I made has a start date of 1/1 and finish at 6/18. I actually tried making a good one for this project for a change - estimates are all double how long I think things will take. Maybe this time around it will be halfway accurate?

Before pics to come soon.

The Fife said:

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The project plan I made has a start date of 1/1 and finish at 6/18. I actually tried making a good one for this project for a change - estimates are all double how long I think things will take. Maybe this time around it will be halfway accurate?

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Only if costs are double what you expected.

And even though that was garage apartment protected.... *cough*scopecreep*cough*

UnderoosAg said:

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The Fife said:

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The project plan I made has a start date of 1/1 and finish at 6/18. I actually tried making a good one for this project for a change - estimates are all double how long I think things will take. Maybe this time around it will be halfway accurate?

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Only if costs are double what you expected.

And even though that was garage apartment protected.... *cough*scopecreep*cough*

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I kind of cheated a little on this one. Some of the materials were free (toilet, vanity + light, bathtub but needs refinishing). Others are already bought and paid for like new solid core doors and the water heater. I think the bulk of the cost of this project will be tile (anticipating about $10/sq ft) and hardwood flooring ($5.5-6/sq ft delivered and finished). And the fence I guess since that's on the same project plan, but demo is already complete.

Still working on the prep work for this project and the back yard fence at this point (36% complete! Hooray project management!). Some assumptions I made about the layout of the house in this area were not correct so my drawings need work. In a nutshell I assumed that the bathroom layout has always been the same as it is now since it's clear the door has never been moved, but this might not be the case since I've been having a really hard time with framing drawings for everything.

Tile samples came in and I have a match for the green bathroom.


The toilet should arrive tomorrow and I'll be able to figure out the shade of blue we need. That gets me where I need to be to start putting together the drawings for the tile layout. Won't be able to work on the countertop until the sink gets here.

Here are a few before pictures that are unstaged. These are the original 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms, so they aren't exactly huge. Clutter in (Mrs. Fife's) craft room should go away once the two missing closets are rebuilt.

Hall Bathroom




Craft Room


Guest Bedroom/Original Master






Guest Bathroom


Nursery

Goodies are still coming in. I was worried that the sink and toilet wouldn't match, but they do. Now I can go find a source for blue tile that will go with it all.

FWIW demo will start very soon. I need to finish tiling the half bath (see: bedroom/bathrooms project) before I get going with this one. Sometime this weekend if I'm lucky.

I've been doing a lot of exploratory and design work on this project but have enough of it done so I can finally get things moving. The left 1' of this hallway will be added back to the bedroom and the entry door will face the hall I took the picture from. The right side of the hallway will be a bedroom closet, hamper for the bathroom to the right and built-in storage facing the spot I took the picture from. Whoever did this work decided to reinstall the ungrounded, undersized wire with jacket material in poor condition when they built the wall, but at least they kept it safe and used wire hold-downs.



There are a lot of short pieces of plywood but it's all too rotten to reuse anyway so it's all going out. This stuff was installed in 2003.



I took up just a little of the bathroom tile to see how much of a fight it'll put up. This room will be really easy to demo. Taking up the subfloor will be more of a challenge than anything. Once the bathroom is out I'm going to take care of the plumbing changes and whatever electrical is going on underneath the place in this area (none?). No big changes, just a GFCI circuit, adding a light over the bathtub, vent fan, and remove/replace whatever original wiring there is here. If I'm lucky I'll be replacing joists before the weekend is up.

While you have the walls open, change out those plastic electrical boxes to metal ones.

I think in this area all I'm going to run into, except for that one in a wall that was done in 2003, are the original metal ones. They're very small and hard to work in. No major floorplan changes this time around so they'll most likely stay.

This one is insusceptible to the sides detaching, it uses all metal hardware with lock washers and guides, through bolts, and has to be picked up an inch before the part that kicks in to drop it clears its catches. It takes a dedicated effort by an adult to even make the thing move.

I got a lot done today, the before and after tell it all except for the extent of the wood rot.





There will always be a bit of a bump at the far right side of the wall because they used 2x6s there for some reason. It's about the depth of the bathtub so it'll be easy to make it work. Tomorrow I should be able to get everything else out of there and get started with the plumbing.

Four new joists are in, four left to go on the far side of the bathroom, and four more off to the left in the hallway I'm deleting. Between the main water line, freon and condensate lines, and that wall I had to move things under it's a "fun" area to work in.

Any progress?

I've been meaning to do a write-up. Have pictures, but work has been stalled for over a week thanks to the baby spreading the black death around the house.

Maybe in the morning. Also, the mail is really slow.

Ok, actual update time...

Structural repairs in the first area are basically done at this point and I'm starting to move on to systems. As I moved closer to where the front of the bathtub originally was things got much worse, but got a lot better a couple of joists beyond that. This one was directly underneath the front of the bathtub and is a perfect example of why waterproofing in this area matters. Once upon a time ago it was a 2x10 with a 2x4 attached 3/4" below the top (original bathroom floor sat on a mud bed).



I need to do some systems work before plywood can start going in. It won't be as easy as it was in other areas because I'll need to find a way to have it extend underneath the bathroom wall. The original plywood was a bit less than 3/4" so my plan is to measure and route out those areas before sliding it in, otherwise the framing will be a bit off.



The bottom of the walls haven't been attached to anything since before we moved in and it explains why doors are a bit off. A Bed, Bath and Beyond flyer used to plug a hole in the subfloor reveals this area of bad work was done in 2009, less than 2 years before we moved in.

I want to do the electrical work first. The way it was wired in 1959 was ungrounded, 14 ga romex ran from the panel to a small double junction box where it's joined with 7 other cables going to various light switches. The splices are absolutely huge and covered with a ton of electrical tape. Redoing the bathroom, nursery and hall are the 1st priority and then the other bedrooms as they're reworked.

Thank you. This is making my shower project look a lot easier.

Quote:

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why

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Because in 10, 20, or 30 years you, or a future owner, are going to want to change out a receptacle or move the box and the plastic will possibly have come undone from the stud or have stripped out where the screws go into.

Do what you want, but I cringe every time I see those plastic boxes. Very cheap fix and zero reason not to.

The Fife said:

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Ok, actual update time...

Structural repairs in the first area are basically done at this point and I'm starting to move on to systems. As I moved closer to where the front of the bathtub originally was things got much worse, but got a lot better a couple of joists beyond that. This one was directly underneath the front of the bathtub and is a perfect example of why waterproofing in this area matters. Once upon a time ago it was a 2x10 with a 2x4 attached 3/4" below the top (original bathroom floor sat on a mud bed).



I need to do some systems work before plywood can start going in. It won't be as easy as it was in other areas because I'll need to find a way to have it extend underneath the bathroom wall. The original plywood was a bit less than 3/4" so my plan is to measure and route out those areas before sliding it in, otherwise the framing will be a bit off.



The bottom of the walls haven't been attached to anything since before we moved in and it explains why doors are a bit off. A Bed, Bath and Beyond flyer used to plug a hole in the subfloor reveals this area of bad work was done in 2009, less than 2 years before we moved in.

I want to do the electrical work first. The way it was wired in 1959 was ungrounded, 14 ga romex ran from the panel to a small double junction box where it's joined with 7 other cables going to various light switches. The splices are absolutely huge and covered with a ton of electrical tape. Redoing the bathroom, nursery and hall are the 1st priority and then the other bedrooms as they're reworked.

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Have you resolved the moisture/poor ventilation issue that caused this wood decay ?

Any reason you are not using treated lumber for the subfloor ?

I've actually seen more stripped metal boxes than blue plastic ones in the past 22 years that I have played with houses. I don't like metal because if the outlet or connection gets loose there is a possibility it could arc to the box itself. The ones that seem to be crap are the brown hard plastic boxes that were used in the 1980's.

Yes, four years ago. The entire crawlspace is sealed and there is a large dehumidifier down there. Wood moisture is the same as the living space, treated wood is unnecessary here. Encapsulation works better than venting since the dew point reaches or exceeds the ambient temperature under the house at times.

About boxes, the only ones I've had crap out are the early 2000s plastic ones with metal inserts to make the screws grab. They crack at the screw hole and there's a reason why this kind aren't available any more. In this area they are metal but very small. I have no intention to change any of them so long as switches and receptacles fit. They're tough to work in.

Metal boxes have to be grounded. It's one more thing to do, one more connection to make, and can be a PITA on a full box.

Yup, this is why I pulled several from the formal living room. There was just no room and I'd have to add the ground screw since there wasn't one. These things are seriously tiny, I need to get a picture of them with new ones for size comparison.

I've been working solely on getting the subfloor back in , and anything that goes on underneath the house that would prevent that from happening. That's mostly meant supporting pipes and other things, cleaning out a huge amount of debris and repairing or adding plastic to finish encapsulating the crawlspace in this area.

The big challenge with getting new subfloor in this area has to do with getting the plywood underneath the bottom of all the walls. The old stuff was missing altogether so a couple of the walls were more than a little loose and the bathroom door never closed right. They also used 1/2" originally and I'm using 3/4." To make up for that I've been routing out the top 1/4" where walls go, jacking them up from below and sliding/hammering the new subfloor in. This takes forever but it gets the repairs done right.



Hall toilet is 100% non-functional


I thought I had the floor figured out, but heard about a tile place in Houston that has a large supply of old stock mosaic tile that I'd like to check out. Being 1,000 miles away is making this difficult since I haven't been able to persuade anyone to go over there yet. Wall and countertop tile samples should get her sometime soon along with the bathtub and faucet fixtures so I can work those issues at least.

I was just in Houston yesterday. And the Tuesday before that as well. Work travel to the Tine has slowed a bit, but one of my best friends lives in Cypress and I get out there every 6-8 weeks or so. Whacha need from the tile place?

UnderoosAg said:

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I was just in Houston yesterday. And the Tuesday before that as well. Work travel to the Tine has slowed a bit, but one of my best friends lives in Cypress and I get out there every 6-8 weeks or so. Whacha need from the tile place?

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The place is called Quality Tile, 9898 Airline Dr. I'm told by someone on a FB group that I'm on that they have old floor mosaic (unclear if it's out back indoors or behind the building). That's what I'm after - if they have the stuff in the right color and quantity I'll drive over from the Austin-SA area during my trip to TX next month to go buy it and then ship it back to myself. It's a long drive so I was trying to make sure they have it before committing the day.

I've seen pictures of the older 4" field tile out back (behind the building), but since I'm probably buying that from Daltile or B&W it's a lot less important. Floor mosaic is nearly impossible to come by. I'm looking for shades of blue for one bathroom and shades of green for the other, in something like this random looking pattern. The person from the FB group is a little unreliable, I'm just trying to figure out if they have it or if they don't.



I'm not sure of how many square feet, but can measure this afternoon. These are not big bathrooms though.

I've been sick pretty much since the beginning of last month so work has been a little slow. The other bedroom/bathroom project that still hasn't been closed out should wrap up within the next week or two because the people building the hamper are almost done. This project though, that's all on me.

Both layers of subfloor are finally in so this weekend's big challenge was getting the bathtub inside. It's big, green, about 400lbs and not original to our house. A couple of years ago I spotted the people redoing our neighbor across the street's bathroom so it followed me home with the help of a friend who's a firefighter. Bringing it in was all me. I ended up using some pieces of PVC pipe to roll it around and a piece of wood to keep it from tipping over since it's off balance. The only really bad parts were getting it up a few stairs and standing it up on its small end so I could move it down the hall and into the bathroom.


New and old crossing paths


The baby had loads of fun banging on the bathtub as I slowly moved it by.


In the hall and almost there... Right now it's in a corner of the bathroom still standing up. I need to run the water lines for the faucet and cut openings in the subfloor for the drain. Not sure if I'm going to do the kind of tub stop with the little lever that flips up or not... it seems like those never work quite right.

I finally have a firm layout for the bathroom. Figuring out where to put the bedroom closet, hamper and hall built in storage has been tough - the hall storage has to be deep enough to clear the swing of the bathroom door (you don't want to have to close the bathroom door to get to the hamper), but not so deep things get lost in there. I have no idea why the contractors the previous owners did this.



There's an 8" wide piece of drywall that runs floor to ceiling whose only purpose is to make a lump in the wall. It's all gone now because this is where the hamper goes, but I have no clue what the point to it was. Just another friendly reminder that whoever the POs hired had no clue what they're doing I guess.

Things have been moving slow due to nearly all of the work being on utilities. For the wiring I've decided to take replace the original stuff with modern/grounded wire from the main panel to the first junction box at a minimum. That removes the big ugly twist/tape splices with over half a dozen wires per connection that are hanging out in the attic and at least gets me to a point where lights that are moved or new will have new, grounded wire and the remaining 3 or 4 can be done at a later date without much of a fight. The GFCI circuit for bathrooms will be a new run altogether, and I'm still going to replace as much as I can during this project in the bedroom outlet circuit because I'd like for those to be grounded. A lot of that wire runs underneath the house anyway so it's the best time to do it.

Other than that the framing for the hamper is done and drywall is going back up. Would be nice to put the tub in this weekend but that takes two people. Getting that, supply and drain plumbing, and the A/C condensate drain done will push this room past the middle of the project crap where it looks like nothing is happening.

These are about the only picworthy things I've been doing lately. This is the hardware we're going with for the shower and sink, test fitted. It's by Union Brass and I could swear I saw something similar in some of the dorms at TAMU? Hardware is solid though - no plated steel, aluminum or zinc anywhere. It's all chromed brass and the cost was very reasonable.



Related to this project because this is on the original bedroom/bathroom lighting circuit. For some reason decades ago somebody decided they wanted no porch light, and no trace that there ever was one visible from the street. They were nice enough to leave the wires and switch (connected) still in place so all I had to do is find a light that fit the hole. No more confused trick or treaters on Halloween!

Mrs Fife is going to put some wallpaper that looks like wood in the baby's room if that works better. I wasn't a fan of using actual wood because it means a crap-ton of drywall repair once you get tired of it.

The boring as hell utility stuff is a big step closer to being done. The GFCI circuit for the bathrooms is run up to a junction box in the attic (not quite sure where the actual outlets will go yet), same for outlets and lighting circuits so that means my work in the main panel is done for good.

The shower/tub valve is installed and leak tested. The only supply plumbing left to do is to install elbows for the tub spout and shower head and relocate the toilet hard line about 8" to the left.

My next step is to trim a couple of things so I have better clearance for the bathtub drain and overflow and get that thing installed. It'll start looking like an actual bathroom pretty soon.

My last home was a 1955 Craftsman and we renovated a lot of it to take out most of the stuff you're putting in.

Gotcha. Most of what's getting used in this project is architectural salvage from other places along the east coast. I would have loved to have the original fixtures, however with moisture control practices underneath the house and in bathtub/shower construction being what they were (and still are for the most part) I would have probably had to do some pretty serious work either way.

It's just these two bathrooms that we're going retro (maybe the guest bedroom too). Everywhere else is now modern. I've always liked how solid a lot of the older builds seem to be in those areas, and it works well with the age and architecture of the house so why not. We don't care about resale or moving, we're close to the city center and the size of the lot and garage make where are pretty unique. To do better I'd need to find a teardown.

Things are still happening, just not at the speed I want them to be moving at. The tub is in but not the drain at this point. It took forever to get the tub filler line put in and the shower head elbow because I had to do the tub filler part twice. I originally plumbed it with PEX but later read that it can cause the shower head to drip because restrictions at the fittings end up forcing water up the other pipe. We got lucky and the old galvanized line from the previous shower valve was an exact fit for what we needed.

For whatever it's worth it's a royal pain snugging down an old style shower valve. The newer ones I've installed had screw holes to attach them to a piece of blocking but with this kind you have to use copper straps and it's hard to get those tight.

Drywall in the tub/shower area is going back up and the only things standing in the way of putting tile in are the GFCI outlet, tub/toilet drain, vent fan, and rerouting the A/C condensate line to drain into the sink trap. That, and actually coming up with a layout for the tile anyway.