Subscribed... We'll need to re-shim out 1950s house later this year, although no noticeable settling has occurred.

I wouldn't buy a house that obviously needs foundation work.

Nope, Drumma'
You only buy houses in desperate need of extensive electrical repair <GRIN>

Actually, P&B houses usually only have "foundation" issues if the material is bad, or poorly placed. So, if the footers are bad, or the piers not set properly--or if insufficient materials are in the concrete. All of which "show" early; no amount of lipstick and rouge will hide that, even from a lay eye.

The wood, on the other hand, needs a deft eye. But, replacing sills, shimming (from below) joists--all that is far, far cheaper than the mudjacking common slabs-on-grade all seem to need in their lifespans.

Hand in hand with that, a P&B floor needs to be embraced, its quirks, dips, crowns enjoyed for what they are, part of the character of the house. Which means some materials--like floor tile need a slightly different point of view--flexible grout and not hard; patterns that embrace the ups and downs, that sort of thing.

But, you don't embrace under-sized trampoline floors, nor rot or the like.

Mac has the right of it.

You don't really have a "foundation" in a pier and beam house. You have a house that rests on footings on ground that might move. Which is the same as slab-on-grade, except that it's not anywhere within the realm of "easy" to fix a slab-on-grade foundation when it does break.

Unlike slab houses, which AgDrumma has, the ground under pier and beam houses is going to move, and you have the ability and right tools to work with it.

The downsides: The bottom of the house needs to be insulated, and it's vulnerable to pests and nuisances. Rats, Possums, mice, many other things -- they can and will live under that house. The plumbing runs under the house and will freeze in cold weather if it's not insulated. I would run run run run if the bottom of the house has been spray foamed... this has been in my opinion used to "insulate" (aka hide) many bad flooring and structural repairs.

Other than that -- as long as the 'pier' material is solid, you have the tools you need to fix any structural problems in a pneumatic jack and some random lumber and levels. Compared to the $10k cost that will get a mud jacking crew on site? I'd buy a pier and beam house in a heartbeat. The thing you don't do is put porcelain/marble floors in. You put carpet or wood or cheap ceramic tile in so that you don't have to worry about replacing it when it shifts ... because it will shift over time. The same as a slab-on-grade foundation.

It's just easier/cheaper to fix the pier and beam.

I have NO idea why -- besides "it's cheaper", which is probably enough reason -- they started building slab-on-grade foundations in Houston.

IMO now that I own a couple of pier and beam houses in Charleston, where the soil is much kinder towards houses than in TX...

They do need maintenance, in that maybe every 20 years or so it's a good idea for a crew to come in and level the place just to keep things where they're supposed to be. The extra 40 years between the two houses REALLY shows. The older of the two may never go back to like new condition, but I'm definitely farming out leveling the place so doors and windows open/close properly, and leveling the one we live in so it doesn't get that way.

So I guess that's the drawback... periodic maintenance, plus the fact that critters can get under the house if the opportunity arises and people tend to walk more loudly. Especially a certain 100lb wife who walks on her heels. IMO insulation is dictated by where you live. A conditioned crawl (no ventilation / insulation around the brick perimeter / HEAVY tarp on the ground and sealed) is best. I've seen fiberglass trap moisture, where warmer air from inside travels down into the cooler, humid crawlspace. Water condenses where the warmer air meets the cooler air from below the house at the bottom of the subfloor / top of the fiberglass.

But the benefits are huge. It's MUCH easier to move utilities, especially plumbing. I'd like to relocate two toilets, a couple of sinks and a shower plus everything in the kitchen. No big deal, because I don't have to jackhammer through concrete to get at the pipes. Moving outlets and adding a cable for our tv antenna was simple too.

IMO our foundation isn't strong enough... there's too much deflection for the type of flooring I want to use, and an idiot notched 5 joists in the middle. I'm adding 22 piers and five beams. It absolutely sucks, but if for some reason we had to have foundation work done on a house with a concrete slab it'd be an absolute nightmare to DIY, if at all possible. Likewise for our 1920s house downtown - I plan on raising it 3 feet or so to get above flood grade + 2.5 feet, which is loads easier than lifting a place on a slab.

edit:
Just my opinion, but you can put all the stone and tile in if your deflection is good, and you have solid / enough piers to make sure that nothing is going to really go anywhere. We have tile in 5 rooms and none of it has cracked, except for where some idiot notched the joists and now the floor deflects too much. None of the houses I looked at with tile on a mud bed (1950-1980) had any cracks either. We're going with stone in our kitchen (15x33) and entry, but our unsupported joist span will be about 6 feet, and joists will either all be sistered or tripled. Can we say, overkill?

[This message has been edited by The Fife (edited 4/22/2012 8:44a).]

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The bottom of the house needs to be insulated

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Really? I've never seen an insulated PB house.

Newer ones are. I have a P&B house that was built in 1952 that was expanded / extended on the back in the early 2000s. The new addition's P&B foundation is insulated and the ground is covered with medium sized rocks. It's much easier and user friendly to crawl under than the original part of the house.

On a similar subject, does anyone have any good references for P&B specialists in DFW? An area in the new part of my house is starting to sag and it looks like the shims they used (wood, not metal) are compressing. I need to get some quotes on a re-level / shim.

BTW, to the original question. Older P&B houses in Texas will have their own "character". If you are looking for movement (i.e. touring a house and trying to find defects), you will. The bigger issue that should concern you is if the movement you feel is just cosmetic or is a symptom of a failure in the structure.

Spec is tryin' to make me blush <g>

Actually, P&B insulation ought be on the walls and brought up the outside walls.

Ventilation of crawlspaces is an iffy proposition at best; it's near-negligent in Brazos County. Introducing warm, humid air, into a space where it will condense on every surface at or below the dew point is not very swift.
That is, unless the "crawlspace' over a floor 60-80" above grade--then ventilation is a good idea, a great idea, even.

Personally, the detail I like for the perimeter beam, is rigid insulation from the bottom of the wall to the soil line on the outside. Then, on the inside, drip screed 8" above the crawlspace 'floor level' with rigid insulation right up to the floor.

The drip screed offers a low-tech termite deterrence, and makes a neat line to cut the insulation to. Using rigid means less fuss to go look at sills and rims and joist ends.

I had mine done 4 years ago, and it had never been leveled in 72 years. One side was 4" lower than the other, and they could only raise it 3" without causing structural damage. It took about 4 hours and cost me less than $2000. The key here, imo is to determine how out of level it is. A couple inches is probably not a big deal, and you should look for shims or level lines (strings) nailed to the beams to determine if it's been leveled before. You also want to have it leveled before you do anything alse, especially trim. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me unless there was obvious structural damage.

I have seen P&B houses where the yard has been filled/graded and you wind up with water trapped under the house. This obviously created all kind of problems. Just saying....

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I have a P&B house. My house had never been leveled since it was built in 1936. One side was a full 4" lower than the other. I hired a reputable company to level it. They did the job in about three hours for $1,900. That was almost 8 years ago, and the house has been fine since. As said by others, there will be some quirks of the floors that can't be fixed by leveling, and the piers will continue to move with the seasons. For the first couple of years after I had the house leveled, some of my doors would stick during the winter, but I don't really have that problem anymore.

This is something I would very strongly encourage you to hire out to professionals. You can cause structural damage to the home if you don't know what you are doing. Keep in mind that the leveling process can/will crack walls, tile, and possibly windows. It can also disconnect plumbing that goes from the house to the ground (I found out the hard way). If there are any doors you think could jam during the process, be sure to leave them open during the process.

Finally, don't do any improvements that could be adversely affected by leveling until after you've had it done.

We just had our 90+ year old P&B home leveled because we were doing a large addition and the builder wanted the existing home relatively level before adding on. They had to raise one side 3 - 4 inches. It caused a lot of cosmetic damage, but I'm glad we had it done.

We also insulated under the existing floors and it has made an incredible difference in keeping the cold out. House was so drafty before that it was miserable in the winter. Not any more.

It's actually pretty easy, but tedious. Rent a self leveling laser and find the highest point. This is assuming there's not already shims installed. You'll essentially want the raise everything else to match the highest point. It becomes tedious because you can't fully shim each pier all at once, but do so incrementally. For shims go to a construction supply house like CMC and buy shim packs used for tilt wall building panels. They will never rot or compress and can handle any load possible.

I see this post was quite a while ago but curious where you found someone to level your house for $1900.00? We have a 840 sq ft house that needs leveling and we are looking for an affordable choice. We live in Bryan, Texas.

Anchor Foundation is the original & most experienced
leveling inferior spec.house foundations for decades in Brazos Co

Used to be $12000 & up but yours is really small ....
Caveat: call backs to level again are free for only for 2 years ... so get your drainage spot-on before they leave the first time

If you find someone let me know... I'm in the same boat with 1100 sf.

LynD said:

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I see this post was quite a while ago but curious where you found someone to level your house for $1900.00? We have a 840 sq ft house that needs leveling and we are looking for an affordable choice. We live in Bryan, Texas.

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I used All Texas Foundation Repair in Houston. I would imagine their prices are significantly higher than $1900 now. My house was slightly under 900 SF then.

Full disclosure, I repair foundations for a living.

But more importantly than that, I help educate homeowners so they can make an informed decision when the time is right for them and their home.

Understanding pier and beam repair cost BEFORE you talk with a contractor is a great place to start. Spoiler alert… size doesn't matter. The biggest impact to costs are:

• Access: Is your home high off the ground vs. really low? Is there good access all around to get to the problem areas vs. a small scuttle hole inside a closet?

• Damage/unusable/insufficient material: How much material needs to be added or removed + replaced to make your home sturdy, stable, and functional.

Here's a link to the Top Foundation Repair Contractors in BCS. (Another spoiler alert… in the interest of being unbiased, we didn't put ourself on this list!)