rules question

1,784 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Oyster DuPree
92TXAG
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OK; for all you area resident rules czars...

I'm watching the PGA Championship and noticed some players are still putting with broomsticks. I thought any "hinged" putting stroke was "illegal"...(?)
Yesterday
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Anchoring was made illegal. You can still putt with the long putter but you may not touch your torso with it or your hands.
DannyDuberstein
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I can see how it's confusing though, because some of these guys keep it so close to their chest that it looks like they are still anchoring (and in some cases, maybe are).
DannyDuberstein
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For instance, here is Hank Haney basically calling out Bernard Langer on Twitter last year. His left forearm appears to be anchored.

92TXAG
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Adam Scott sure looks like he's "anchoring" his broomstick...
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, technically, just leaving the width of a credit card is legal. So really hard to discern anchoring vs not. But given a guy's shirt is going to hang down a bit to provide some cover, it seems awfully easy for that legal stroke to become illegal without it standing out.

It's a game where you want to give guys the benefit of the doubt because the stain of cheating is horrible and never comes off. But with some of these, it's not easy. I don't see how that Langer stroke above was not anchoring (club, hand, nor forearm can touch your body, and it sure looks to me like his forearm is anchored). And Scott has said that he switched back because of Langer's success with it, so he's emulating it.
jj9000
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First, it's a stupid rule to begin with. The USGA got upset when Keegan won their Tournament with a belly putter. So, they over-rotated in the face of tons of offsetting data suggesting there is no long term advantage to anchoring.

Anyway, the USGA pulled a 'USGA" and wrote the Rule in a manner that it couldn't be enforced. How? They included the word "Intentionally" in the Rule.

Regardless of whether Scott was anchoring or not, it doesn't matter. Try to prove that he or anyone else, anchors "intentionally".
Mateo84
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jj9000 said:

First, it's a stupid rule to begin with. The USGA got upset when Keegan won their Tournament with a belly putter. So, they over-rotated in the face of tons of offsetting data suggesting there is no long term advantage to anchoring.

Anyway, the USGA pulled a 'USGA" and wrote the Rule in a manner that it couldn't be enforced. How? They included the word "Intentionally" in the Rule.

Regardless of whether Scott was anchoring or not, it doesn't matter. Try to prove that he or anyone else, anchors "intentionally".

They should remove that wording and add something that just eliminates any player possibly using an anchored technique (some harsh penalty, putter length restrictions, etc)
TexasAggies06
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I had this same question yesterday while watching Adam Scott putt and was reading some old articles about it. He started using this again at the end of last year, and as mentioned above he switched back because of the success Langer was having by continuing to use the long putter.

Adam Scott to use Bernhard Langer's controversial putting stroke

Quote:

The former No. 1, who has been a critic of the anchoring ban, cited the play of Langer and McCarron as his catalysts for the switch.

"It was actually pointed out to me that this year they both recorded the best ever putting stats since stats have been kept. Both of them beat the old best," Scott said. "You know, I don't know if it's just a coincidence or if they had just a really good year, but maybe they've found the best way to putt.''

Scott suffered one of the worst campaigns of his career last season, falling 24 spots in the world rankings. Since the ban's implementation, he's ranked 129th (2016) and 89th ('17) in strokes gained: putting.

Here is another example of Langer that looks like he is definitely anchoring:



https://www.golfdigest.com/story/chamblee-doubles-down-on-anchoring-issue-what-theyre-doing-is-not-above-reproach

Quote:

But video evidence from the tournament does suggest Langer's stroke comes dangerously close to being anchored.

"Anybody who sees what Langer and Scott McCarron and Ian Woosnam are doing knows it's questionable," Chamblee said. "The whispers are out there. All of the players look askance whether they say it openly or not. I've talked enough of them to know -- and many have contacted me -- they all look askance at what's going on out there.

"And intent, I think there is apprehension on the governing body's part not to ruffle feathers further. When it's time to dig in, they're reluctant to do so. Their acquiescence is to pass this rule, but the only violation is the intent to break this rule."

It's this vagueness that's causing the issue, said Chamblee, citing the need for a clearer interpretation of the law.

"You have to come up with a more definitive way to enforce this rule," Chamblee said. "Basically what the USGA is saying is, 'If you can live with cheating, then fine. If you can sleep with yourself, then fine.'"


DannyDuberstein
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Fwiw I don't think it should be banned. Nor do I think Sam Snead's line straddling stroke should have been banned. Conforming club? Striking it once? Good to go IMO. Every method has positives and negatives and takes skill to master. Agree that the "intentional" mucks the rule up entirely. Other players are partially to blame for the overall rule too tho. Guys like Tiger were pretty vocal that they considered it cheating prior to the rule change. I dont think the usga acts without them piping up.

With the long putter, the general rule is that the shorter putts get easier for some, but feel and distance control for the mid to long range stuff gets tougher. I've messed around with them at the store, and they always felt so incredibly awkward that I could never imagine using one. But if you can master it? More power to you.
Mr.Bond
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Fact is Scott used to be the #1 player and putter in the world. Some elite players including tiger cried that it was unfair..... It was then banned. It's a stupid rule. If it's such an advantage then everyone would be doing it
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.




DannyDuberstein
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this my issue with the complaining that led to the ban. If it was such an advantage, use it. Otherwise, shut your pie hole.
Yesterday
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DannyDuberstein said:

this my issue with the complaining that led to the ban. If it was such an advantage, use it. Otherwise, shut your pie hole.


I get that but Tiger does have a point. Adam can't putt for **** with a regular putter which is why he has to use the long one. It's an advantage for players who can't hole 5 footers. When the pressure is on it's a big advantage to take your hands out of the equation. Really good players could control it without anchoring.

All of that said the long putter doesn't bother me.
1208HawkTree
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1208HawkTree
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Dammit...

What I was trying to say was just make it illegal for anything below your elbow to touch anything above your belt. I haven't thought this through necessarily, just a reaction the the Haney video.
DannyDuberstein
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The problem is that it opens the door to incidental contact and ridiculous penalties, which I'm sure is what they were trying to remedy with the "intentional" language.

Some of the other ideas kicked around involved a length limit, although with some counterbalanced putters approaching what belly putters were length-wise, that starts to get tricky to do. I think Tiger threw out the requirement that it couldn't be longer than shortest club in your bag (i.e. a wedge). Problem is that with wedges being around 35" standard, that starts to restrict some traditional putting style players that just like their putter a bit longer than standard.
JYDog90
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03ki11erAG said:

DannyDuberstein said:

this my issue with the complaining that led to the ban. If it was such an advantage, use it. Otherwise, shut your pie hole.


I get that but Tiger does have a point. Adam can't putt for **** with a regular putter which is why he has to use the long one. It's an advantage for players who can't hole 5 footers. When the pressure is on it's a big advantage to take your hands out of the equation. Really good players could control it without anchoring.

All of that said the long putter doesn't bother me.


This is kinda like saying, "if you can't make a 5-footer with an old Bullseye your putter ought to be illegal." Again, if it's that big of an advantage why isn't Tiger using it? Because he's a purist? No, it's because it doesn't work for him. Just like his putter and stroke doesn't work for Scott.
Formerly Willy Wonka
Yesterday
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willie wonka said:

03ki11erAG said:

DannyDuberstein said:

this my issue with the complaining that led to the ban. If it was such an advantage, use it. Otherwise, shut your pie hole.


I get that but Tiger does have a point. Adam can't putt for **** with a regular putter which is why he has to use the long one. It's an advantage for players who can't hole 5 footers. When the pressure is on it's a big advantage to take your hands out of the equation. Really good players could control it without anchoring.

All of that said the long putter doesn't bother me.


This is kinda like saying, "if you can't make a 5-footer with an old Bullseye your putter ought to be illegal." Again, if it's that big of an advantage why isn't Tiger using it? Because he's a purist? No, it's because it doesn't work for him. Just like his putter and stroke doesn't work for Scott.


That analogy doesn't work at all in my opinion. The stroke doesn't change at all with a bullseye to a Spyder. It's the exact same stroke. Your hands are the only body part that touch the club. The anchor putter eliminates most of the hand involvement.

I don't mind anchoring, I'm just saying that Tiger has a valid point and it's obvious with guys like Adam Scott.
Oyster DuPree
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Tiger Woods
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