USGA

1,954 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by agsalaska
Harry Stone
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Should set up a US Open like a regular tournament, especially next year at pebble, (keep hole#2 a par 5) let every major championship record fall and send a big FU to the tour, media, players, etc for *****ing about the conditions at shinnecock.
WhoopN06
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I'm with you on the big FU to everyone. I disagree with the how. I think they should set the course up hard AF. Go the opposite direction.

I hreally did not have any issues with the setup on Saturday.
AggieIce
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Should host it at Bryan Muni

Would love to see these pros putt on gravel
Ags77
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Three things you can safely predict.

1. The USA will screw up something
2. If it's hard, some of the players will whine.
3. The players that whine will NOT win it.
Gigem
jgh85Ag
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Already done at Erin Hills.
AgPrognosticator
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Harry Stone said:

Should set up a US Open like a regular tournament, especially next year at pebble, (keep hole#2 a par 5) let every major championship record fall and send a big FU to the tour, media, players, etc for *****ing about the conditions at shinnecock.


Pebble from the US Open Tees is insaaaane. I mad a comment how difficult a hole (I think 11) would be from the tips, and my caddie responded that the US Open Tees were 75 yards down the hill and to the right.

These guys have to bomb the ball 300+ and hit an approach from 190 to a very difficult green complex. I don't know how they keep their scores anywhere close to par.


giddings_ag_06
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AggieIce said:

Should host it at Bryan Muni

Would love to see these pros putt on gravel
Come to Giddings. You could drive, chip AND putt off gravel. The trifecta.
BreNayPop
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WhoopN06 said:



I hreally did not have any issues with the setup on Saturday.


I dont mind it being hard, i mind it being a circus tho and changing so drastically. Keep the greens one speed. Keep up with the weather. The difference between us open hard and british open hard is the in the us, its the usga that screws the players and in the british it is the weather. One is controllable, the other is not.
CyclingAg82
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It is kind of hard to screw up Pebble Beach.

The Superintendent many years ago was asked how the US Open set up was handled, he said we just let the rough grow till no one on staff can break 80.

It has worked well for them.
DannyDuberstein
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Pebble should be good as long as the USGA can stomach the fact that there's a good chance under par will win it there, as it has for most of the past 30-40 years there. But the setup at Pebble is tried and true.

I really wish they'd stop picking so many links courses where they are counting heavily on wind to defend it. They really seem to be struggling with how to set those up, and they too easily swerve between too easy and too ridiculous. And it boils down to the fact that a links course just doesn't just let you scientifically set it up to defend par. Set it up to be hard with average to easy weather, you risk getting ridiculous if you get weather. Don't set it up hard enough and miss the weather, you get Erin Hills.

Pick some courses with other defenses, like trees, and rely more heavily on using rough as a defense than the greens. We're about to get into a pretty good stretch of courses (Pebble, Winged Foot, Torrey, Brookline, LA Country Club, and Pinehurst). Don't swerve back to stacking links together like the past 5 or so year strectch.
ORAggieFan
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Yep. I think it boils down to never let the greens get away from you. Use the rough, fairway width, length, etc as the challenge.

Selfishly, can't wait for Torrey in 3 years. 10 years ago watched Tiger win at Torrey and left Orlando the next day for our move to San Diego.
Just an Ag
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You can make a course long and difficult without relying on wind and linoleum greens. Push the tees back, narrow the fairways, grow the rough, allow the greens to receive shots and be puttable (but fast). A good pro hitting fairways and greens is going to under par. But that's not a bad course setup, and it is true to the game.
DannyDuberstein
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You can also do all sorts of stuff around the greens. Punish missed GIRs severely. Where the green is elevated, shave the rough down on the slope and then leave some high, hellish stuff at the bottom of the slope. They do some of these, but if you want to take things to an extreme to protect par, do it there vs. on the green itself. Contour fairways for risk/reward choices. Again, they do some of this, but I think it could be more extreme.
watty
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Pebble is one of those great courses that isn't very long. Barely 7000 yards on a par 71 for the US Open. Bethpage, for example, played over 7400 yards at par 70. The top 10 players in 2010 were a good mix, not all bombers by any means.

Graeme McDowell
Gregory Havret
Els
Phil
Tiger
Kuch
Davis Love
Alex Cejka
DJ
Kaymer
Snedeker

Pebble and other shorter courses have a huge appeal to me because they seem theoretically playable without having to drive it 330.
Ag_07
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I've opined for a long time that when courses were going through the 'Tiger proofing' fad as players were getting longer that it in reality that was helping them.

What makes longer players happy? More room to hit driver.

I think the best thing to do to combat the length that players have now is to shorten the course and either take driver out of their hands or make it tight enough to entice them to hit driver but punish them if they're too long or inaccurate.

Think that's what the USGA and course architects need to focus a bit more on. Make it tough without adding length.
Funky Winkerbean
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Cap driver technology , spin rates on balls and standardize lofts in irons.
watty
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Why would standardizing loft make a difference?
'03ag
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Ag_07 said:

I've opined for a long time that when courses were going through the 'Tiger proofing' fad as players were getting longer that it in reality that was helping them.

What makes longer players happy? More room to hit driver.

I think the best thing to do to combat the length that players have now is to shorten the course and either take driver out of their hands or make it tight enough to entice them to hit driver but punish them if they're too long or inaccurate.

Think that's what the USGA and course architects need to focus a bit more on. Make it tough without adding length.
I agree that lengthening the course is really helping the big hitters, but I'm not sure there is any solution.

Tighter fairways maybe. But the big drivers are typically big long iron players as well. If you make it too risky to try to drive the ball past, let's say, 270 or so...the short hitters will be trying to hit the landing area with driver. Can't Tiger hit his stinger about that far?

Hitting longer will always be an advantage.
Forum Troll
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Koepka has stated in interviews that he'd rather hit the ball 330 into the rough and have a 9 iron or wedge into the green than be in the fairway and be hitting 6 or 7. Course set up can punish this mentality if the USGA chooses to do so.
watty
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It will, and it should be. I think they should make the ball spin more, personally.
watty
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Forum Troll said:

Koepka has stated in interviews that he'd rather hit the ball 330 into the rough and have a 9 iron or wedge into the green than be in the fairway and be hitting 6 or 7. Course set up can punish this mentality if the USGA chooses to do so.

For fun, the 100th ranked player on Tour has a proximity of 37'5" from the rough from 125-150, while the 100th ranked player has a proximity of 35' from the fairway from 175-200. So overall, it actually is better to be 50 yards shorter and in the fairway.

And for the record, Koepka is matched up with that trend. He's about 3 feet closer on the longer shots from the fairway than the shorter one from the rough. However, Tiger, Rory, Spieth, Phil, Bubba, Henrik, and more are all better from the rough than the fairway 50 yards back. Some by quite a bit. Tiger's proximity on those rough shots this year is like 26', while his fairway proximity is like 33'. Stenson so far this year has been insane out of the rough, leading the Tour with a proximity of 17' from 125-150, while his fairway proximity from 175-200 is 31 feet. So he's putting from 14 feet closer to the hole by hitting it longer even if it's in the rough. Huge advantage.
powerbelly
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watty said:

It will, and it should be. I think they should make the ball spin more, personally.
Agree. Make hitting solid more important than hitting hard.
Funky Winkerbean
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watty said:

Why would standardizing loft make a difference?


Make things more equal from player to player and increase decision making on how many wedges to carry.
Funky Winkerbean
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watty said:

It will, and it should be. I think they should make the ball spin more, personally.


Ditto. I wondered if anyone of the players considered using a balata ball for the open.
DannyDuberstein
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I'd rather they cut the # of clubs to 12 or 13 vs telling them what to carry. But in general, the only equipment enforcement I'd like to see are limits around the ball.
AgPrognosticator
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Forum Troll said:

Koepka has stated in interviews that he'd rather hit the ball 330 into the rough and have a 9 iron or wedge into the green than be in the fairway and be hitting 6 or 7. Course set up can punish this mentality if the USGA chooses to do so.


Should that mentality be punished out of existence? Guys that are long off the tee add a component of athleticism that the PGA really needs.

There is a happy-medium because most guys dont share Koepka's sentiment.

I would get bored watching guys hit 240 tee 2 irons to a 20 yard-wide fairway all day long.

It's actually a lot of fun to watch guys balance the risk/reward of driver vs driving iron.

DannyDuberstein
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I think you mix it up. Tighten it in some bomb areas. But in others, maybe widen it for the bomber and tighten it for the layoup - especially when there is other risk to bombing it on that hole (hazard, etc).
agsalaska
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DannyDuberstein said:

Pebble should be good as long as the USGA can stomach the fact that there's a good chance under par will win it there, as it has for most of the past 30-40 years there. But the setup at Pebble is tried and true.

I really wish they'd stop picking so many links courses where they are counting heavily on wind to defend it. They really seem to be struggling with how to set those up, and they too easily swerve between too easy and too ridiculous. And it boils down to the fact that a links course just doesn't just let you scientifically set it up to defend par. Set it up to be hard with average to easy weather, you risk getting ridiculous if you get weather. Don't set it up hard enough and miss the weather, you get Erin Hills.

Pick some courses with other defenses, like trees, and rely more heavily on using rough as a defense than the greens. We're about to get into a pretty good stretch of courses (Pebble, Winged Foot, Torrey, Brookline, LA Country Club, and Pinehurst). Don't swerve back to stacking links together like the past 5 or so year strectch.
Totally agree about Links courses. There are only two in my opinion that should host it:Shinnecock and Oakmont. and it should be on of those every six or seven years.

That being said I really enjoyed playing Chambers Bay and watching Erin HIlls. I hope we see Erin HIlls again for a PGA Championship or WGC event.

At least they haven't changes the par of the course in a round again.
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