USGA vs PGA and rolling back the golf ball

2,475 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by BTD
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I talked to my buddy who plays on one of the tours and he we were talking about how the USGA has been talking about "rolling back" golf ball technology.

The PGA sent a letter to all players about the statistical data they have studied since 2002 on the PGA Tour, since 2008 on Canadian and Latino Tour, and since 2011 on senior tour. Now there are some anomalies from certain years to the next but I was surprised at the results on the average yardage increase for drives starting from 2002 until 2018.

Anyone want to guess the average yardage increase from 2002 to 2018?
powerbelly
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I hope they make the ball more spinny. Make the risk high for trying to go all out on a drive.
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'll guess 20 yards.
Ag81Golf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I would venture to guess about 10 yards at most.

powerbelly
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I would guess less than 5% distance increase, but much smaller gap from shortest avg to longest avg.
AustinCountyAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
this whole debate of rolling back the ball has been going on for years and is getting ridiculous...yes the balls may be going farther but the real increase is coming from the woods in the bag.

Finua summed it up perfect in his new interview with golfwrx. He is hitting is irons the same distance as he did when he was 16, but driver on the other hand not so much....

my own 2 cents is limit what the driver can do and leave the ball alone. It would be ridiculous to try and move technology and advancements back by limiting a balls flight rather than just capping driver tech where it is right now. That alone would help with the problem at least....I hate the idea of having to keep moving tee boxes back on all these classic courses. But I also hate thinking that they want to create a new ball that will go shorter than current balls.
bagger05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I agree this is a better approach. Can't the PGA publish their own list of conforming clubs without the USGA?
Funky Winkerbean
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bomber golf week in and week out is boring. If the courses are tightened up the players don't like it because it takes driver out of their hands. I miss the days of guys hitting hooks, not pulls, and seeing them have to get creative to keep a wedge shot from spinning off the green. All a function of spin rate.
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
Funky Winkerbean
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AustinCountyAg said:

this whole debate of rolling back the ball has been going on for years and is getting ridiculous...yes the balls may be going farther but the real increase is coming from the woods in the bag.

Finua summed it up perfect in his new interview with golfwrx. He is hitting is irons the same distance as he did when he was 16, but driver on the other hand not so much....

my own 2 cents is limit what the driver can do and leave the ball alone. It would be ridiculous to try and move technology and advancements back by limiting a balls flight rather than just capping driver tech where it is right now. That alone would help with the problem at least....I hate the idea of having to keep moving tee boxes back on all these classic courses. But I also hate thinking that they want to create a new ball that will go shorter than current balls.


I contend driver tech is capped. If all the marketing was true, I'd be hitting 414 yds on average.
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Drivers getting lower and lower spinning with higher launch and being more forgiving definitely has an effect. Drivers aren't getting longer by much though since like early 2000s. Maybe longer on average with off center hits....
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The average increase from 2002 is.................. 4 yards

Some years are up from year to year and some are down. The largest jump from one year to the next was like 4 yards. It sounds like the USGA and PGA don't agree on this (or much else)

I thought this number would be higher myself.

I also learned that often the yardages we see on TV aren't always correct....often due to the yardage being given from the back tee box and the players playing from a different box. Sometimes that uphill par 4 isn't 492 yards that they hit pitching wedge into
Icecream_Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
Aggie369 said:

Drivers getting lower and lower spinning with higher launch and being more forgiving definitely has an effect. Drivers aren't getting longer by much though since like early 2000s. Maybe longer on average with off center hits....
I have a ~15 year old driver and the only way the fitter at golf Galaxy could tell the difference in my driver and some of the new ones (last years stuff) was watching me hit them.
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
U mean by looking at the driver and not the numbers?
Icecream_Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
Aggie369 said:

U mean by looking at the driver and not the numbers?
no the numbers on the launch monitor.
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If it's a 460cc head there shouldnt be much difference in distance unless there is a shaft change or there is a crack your driver face (on a center of face hit ball)
Icecream_Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
Aggie369 said:

If it's a 460cc head there shouldnt be much difference in distance unless there is a shaft change or there is a crack your driver face (on a center of face hit ball)
it is 460cc, didn't remember that. Did remember it has a carbon fiber body.

May need a new shaft now though...
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Is it the Cleveland 460 comp? Cause driver was legit!
Icecream_Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
Aggie369 said:

Is it the Cleveland 460 comp? Cause driver was legit!
Callaway FT-5
andrago94
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Wonder how much of the 4 yds could be attributed to better fitness routines among pros leading to slightly higher average swing speeds...
Funky Winkerbean
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Look at the jump from persimmon to metal. That was a big one.
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
jja79
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If they narrowed the fairways, grew up the rough a bit and quick raking bunkers for perfect lies (they're hazards by the way) it would make golf more interesting IMO. Driver/3 wood, wedge, putt is getting somewhat boring to watch.
aggiedent
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

The average increase from 2002 is.................. 4 yards

Some years are up from year to year and some are down. The largest jump from one year to the next was like 4 yards. It sounds like the USGA and PGA don't agree on this (or much else)

I thought this number would be higher myself.

This doesn't surprise me at all. For those of you who have watched Rick Shiels' videos on club tests, you might have seen his "decade" club tests with drivers. He has done videos for Ping Callaway, TM, etc. He takes 5-6 top of the line drivers for each company that span 10-12 years. Then he hits each one 20-25 times and generates the average carry and total distances. Typically all the drivers are within 8-9 yards of each other.
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yessir
jonj101
How long do you want to ignore this user?
More restrictions and regulations is a waste. Messing with the ball will not accomplish anything.
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Correcto.... it doesn't look like anything will happen
BTD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Are you saying 4 yards average increase year over year (compounding) or 4 yards total increase over a decade? I presume you are saying the latter...
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Average of 4 yards total from 2002 until today
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Courses are getting faster as well
BTD
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wow. Glad I bought a new driver
_lefraud_
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BTD said:

Wow. Glad I bought a new driver

Your new driver has a TON more forgiveness than a driver from 2002. That's what we're paying for today.
Ag81Golf
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Ball quality is what has improved scoring from mid irons to the green. Especially around the greens.

_lefraud_
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag81Golf said:

Ball quality is what has improved scoring from mid irons to the green. Especially around the greens.



I'd say more specifically the ball has helped make-up for bad shots, or allowed guys to get out of trouble and/or throw darts from 100 yards in. With the way balls spin, almost any Joe Blow can get up and down from off the green. Maybe the ball has something to do with there being so many great players (parody) in today's game.

I'd like to see pros have a standard ball, and to some extent, standard clubs for tournament play.
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Gutta percha or gtfo
aggiedent
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

Your new driver has a TON more forgiveness than a driver from 2002. That's what we're paying for today.


I would say "a bit" more forgiveness rather than a "ton".

That is based on my personal experience and on Rick Shiels' driver club test spanning 10-12 years. One interesting thing Rick noted was from an accuracy standpoint, Ping were the most forgiving drivers. One Ping driver from 2008 (somewhere around there) was as forgiving as the current model.
Aggie369
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Get ur facts out of here!
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.