Wow. Wish parents of recruits would listen to reports like that.

Damn....a metal plate in the pelvis. That looks like that hurts.

Slimy. Sad. So sippy.

Patterson is certainly old school in many ways. I do think it would be prudent to hear both sides here. Patterson has a ton of former players that love him.

I also think it's funny how many want to jump on that bandwagon to bash Patterson & TCU here, yet so many love to pontificate about how things were in the old days and praise guys for playing hurt and praise 'old school' coaches, etc.

Champ Bailey said:

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Patterson also had that coke ring a couple years ago that a bunch of players were involved in. Also the Boykin thing where he punched a cop the night before a bowl game.

How many scandals have to take place before you start looking at whether its worth a record barely better than Kevin Sumlin's?

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This is a bit overblown.

The players were arrested for selling weed, not coke. The coke ring was students. Boykin was certainly high profile, but over the last 4 years, A&M has had far more arrests than TCU.

Macarthur said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Patterson also had that coke ring a couple years ago that a bunch of players were involved in. Also the Boykin thing where he punched a cop the night before a bowl game.

How many scandals have to take place before you start looking at whether its worth a record barely better than Kevin Sumlin's?

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This is a bit overblown.

The players were arrested for selling weed, not coke. The coke ring was students. Boykin was certainly high profile, but over the last 4 years, A&M has had far more arrests than TCU.

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So you don't think a coach blackmailing a player to play hurt and in so doing ruining their NFL chances a big deal? This is bigger than any player being arrested for X.

This deals with how the TCU coaches sacrifice their players futures just to win.

Cynical_Texan said:

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Macarthur said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Patterson also had that coke ring a couple years ago that a bunch of players were involved in. Also the Boykin thing where he punched a cop the night before a bowl game.

How many scandals have to take place before you start looking at whether its worth a record barely better than Kevin Sumlin's?

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This is a bit overblown.

The players were arrested for selling weed, not coke. The coke ring was students. Boykin was certainly high profile, but over the last 4 years, A&M has had far more arrests than TCU.

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So you don't think a coach blackmailing a player to play hurt and in so doing ruining their NFL chances a big deal? This is bigger than any player being arrested for X.

This deals with how the TCU coaches sacrifice their players futures just to win.

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Did you not read my first post? I didn't say this is not a big deal.

Macarthur said:

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Patterson is certainly old school in many ways. I do think it would be prudent to hear both sides here. Patterson has a ton of former players that love him.

I also think it's funny how many want to jump on that bandwagon to bash Patterson & TCU here, yet so many love to pontificate about how things were in the old days and praise guys for playing hurt and praise 'old school' coaches, etc.

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Nowhere in that statement did I see "this is a big deal". You used a double negative so I cleaned it up.

What I saw was deflection of criticism of Patterson because he is "old school in many ways" and "have to hear both sides because other players love him".

Macarthur said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Patterson also had that coke ring a couple years ago that a bunch of players were involved in. Also the Boykin thing where he punched a cop the night before a bowl game.

How many scandals have to take place before you start looking at whether its worth a record barely better than Kevin Sumlin's?

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This is a bit overblown.

The players were arrested for selling weed, not coke. The coke ring was students. Boykin was certainly high profile, but over the last 4 years, A&M has had far more arrests than TCU.

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Ok. One of the players arrested was his starting QB. Boykin, another starting QB, assaulted a cop 2 days before a high profile bowl game. Now there is a guy saying he is blackmailing players?

Again, how much has to happen to justify keeping a coach that barely has a better record than Kevin Sumlin in a much inferior league?

Cynical_Texan said:

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Macarthur said:

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Patterson is certainly old school in many ways. I do think it would be prudent to hear both sides here. Patterson has a ton of former players that love him.

I also think it's funny how many want to jump on that bandwagon to bash Patterson & TCU here, yet so many love to pontificate about how things were in the old days and praise guys for playing hurt and praise 'old school' coaches, etc.

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Nowhere in that statement did I see "this is a big deal". You used a double negative so I cleaned it up.

What I saw was deflection of criticism of Patterson because he is "old school in many ways" and "have to hear both sides because other players love him".

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So do you not think it's prudent to hear Patterson and the school's side to this? I mean he is a guy that has been pretty respected in the coaching world for quite a few years.

And you can call it deflection, but i tend to call it glass houses. A&M has had far more arrests in the last 4 to 5 years. My point is that all schools have a run of bad luck. In fact, around 2010, there was an article that TCU was one of only two schools in D1 that had zero players with a criminal record. They were also, at the time, only one of two schools that did criminal background checks on recruits. So did Patterson just stop caring about criminals?

Champ Bailey said:

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Ok. One of the players arrested was his starting QB. Boykin, another starting QB, assaulted a cop 2 days before a high profile bowl game.

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So he's had two knuklehead QBs. What's your point?

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Now there is a guy saying he is blackmailing players?

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And all I said was that given his reputation over the past couple of decades, I think it would be prudent to wait to pass judgement instead of taking the word of a guy that was a mid draft guy, at best. Who, by the way, still ran a 4.39 at the combine, so what exactly did the injury do to him?

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Again, how much has to happen to justify keeping a coach that barely has a better record than Kevin Sumlin in a much inferior league?

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What is your barometer? Is it high profile players like QBs or is it the number of arrests. Because I will tell you, Sumlin should have been fired long ago if you go by number of arrests. Patterson has had far fewer arrests than A&M and it's really not close.

Up until awhile ago, a lot of people thought baylor's program was comparatively clean and well behaved and that Art Briles was a standup guy.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Up until awhile ago, a lot of people thought baylor's program was comparatively clean and well behaved and that Art Briles was a standup guy.

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I don't think you want to compare this to Baylor's troubles do you?

If this, worst case, comes out that Patterson did this and told other players that they had to play with pain or he would hurt their draft chances, that would be bad, but it still wouldn't rise to the level of what Baylor did.

Does Casey Pachall ring a bell?


Edit: I see you were probably referencing him as the QB in the drug stuff. My bad.

AgEng06 said:

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Does Casey Pachall ring a bell?

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Yes.


edit: ok

Let's not forget, Listenbee passed a physical at the combine and was drafted and made a 53 man roster. "Would be interesting to know the medical issues referenced in the suit.

Macarthur said:

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If this, worst case, comes out that Patterson did this and told other players that they had to play with pain or he would hurt their draft chances, that would be bad, but it still wouldn't rise to the level of what Baylor did.

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How bad? IF (and yes big if) this did occur, what do you think Patterson's punishment should be?

Macarthur said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Up until awhile ago, a lot of people thought baylor's program was comparatively clean and well behaved and that Art Briles was a standup guy.

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I don't think you want to compare this to Baylor's troubles do you?

If this, worst case, comes out that Patterson did this and told other players that they had to play with pain or he would hurt their draft chances, that would be bad, but it still wouldn't rise to the level of what Baylor did.

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It's still a coach committing a felony. Also, if we hadn't had two knucklehead QB's, Kevin Sumlin might still be here.

Patterson on the other hand had a starting QB involved in a drug ring. Not buying and smoking, but selling. His other "knucklehead" QB as you do lovingly called him, assaulted a cop. Trying to compare them to a drunk and a daddy's boy is hilarious though.

Also, I love how you simultaneously denigrate the player by saying he was a mid draft pick at best, as if that somehow should discount his story, and say that he was still going to be drafted, so even if the blackmailing is true, it shouldn't matter.

Cynical_Texan said:

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Macarthur said:

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If this, worst case, comes out that Patterson did this and told other players that they had to play with pain or he would hurt their draft chances, that would be bad, but it still wouldn't rise to the level of what Baylor did.

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How bad? IF (and yes big if) this did occur, what do you think Patterson's punishment should be?

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Hard to say until we know the facts. I think there are degrees here depending on the facts.

Did he yell something to this effect while in a game or practice? That, to me, would be pretty insignificant as coaches yell crap at players in the heat of a moment all the time.

If it were more systematic and he brought him in the office, etc. and told him point blank, he would tell scouts he would give a bad report if he didn't play, that is a diff thing.

I don't think you can answer what a punishment should be until we know more.

Champ Bailey said:

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It's still a coach committing a felony. Also, if we hadn't had two knucklehead QB's, Kevin Sumlin might still be here.

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What felony has Patterson committed?

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Patterson on the other hand had a starting QB involved in a drug ring.

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You keep trying to make this something bigger than it was, and it was already big. BUT

Pachall was not involved in a drug ring. You make it sound like he was some sort of dealer. He was arrested for DWI and admitted that he had used drugs.

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Not buying and smoking, but selling.

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Paschall did not sell, at least he never admitted that and was never charged with that.

Quote:

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His other "knucklehead" QB as you do lovingly called him, assaulted a cop. Trying to compare them to a drunk and a daddy's boy is hilarious though.

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I didn't do that. You are twisting this around completely. I never compared what those two did with Hill. YOu are the one trying to manipulate the conversation.

I simply said Sumlin had far more arrests in his tenure than Patterson has. That is a fact.

Quote:

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Also, I love how you simultaneously denigrate the player by saying he was a mid draft pick at best, as if that somehow should discount his story, and say that he was still going to be drafted, so even if the blackmailing is true, it shouldn't matter.

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His draft status has nothing to do with the allegations on their face.

However, that doesn't change the fact that he is throwing some pretty big allegations against a highly respected coach and program when he passed NFL physicals and ran a very good time at the combine. I bring up his draft status to say that maybe the league didn't think as highly of Listenbee as he thought they should since he was taken in the 6th round. Maybe it had less to do with injury and more to do with ability.

Macarthur said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Up until awhile ago, a lot of people thought baylor's program was comparatively clean and well behaved and that Art Briles was a standup guy.

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I don't think you want to compare this to Baylor's troubles do you?

If this, worst case, comes out that Patterson did this and told other players that they had to play with pain or he would hurt their draft chances, that would be bad, but it still wouldn't rise to the level of what Baylor did.

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I do. Just because a coach has a certain reputation for being clean doesn't mean that they're choir boys or that they're not doing shady things to protect their program. You're saying give Patterson the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't had a lot of arrests on his teams. Well, up until a point, Briles didn't either, and it turns out there was a reason. What happened at baylor may be worse, but that doesn't mean that this is conceptually any different. Patterson is still a D1 coach whose responsibly is to the program, not the players or students, and maybe this guy shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand.