This question is primarily directed at persons who work at a high level in the insurance and reinsurance industry.

Has there been any talk or discussion within the insurance industry of a policy exclusion for the death of an insured which is caused or contributed by complications from the corvid vaccine?

Recall that during the years after 9-11, the insurance industry added policy exclusions for terrorism and terrorism related losses. We saw this language trickle down to standard form contracts in a variety of industries.

Is anyone hearing any discussion of this specific issue?

Which product are you asking about? Homeowners? CGL? Workers comp?

Terrorism is a slightly different issue at this point as the government passed legislation to assist insurers with the expense should another event happen. There have been no signals this far that they'll do something similar with COVID.

Apples and oranges. Terrorism is an act of violence that is an isolated event. Covid is an infectious disease that has so many variables when blended with other health issues. If they add Covid than any disease listed as a pandemic, or even just ones with almost certain death like Ebola, would then be added. And don't forget ones that you control - like alcohol, tobacco, etc. that result in cancer later. Would almost make all life insurance worthless.

Life

The terrorism exclusion post 9-11 is simply an example of how the insurance market reacts to a change in circumstances.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The terrorism exclusion post 9-11 is simply an example of how the insurance market reacts to a change in circumstances.

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Yes, but my comments still hold - impossible to start adding infectious diseases

I can't comment there. P&C is a different story.

Seems like the insurance industry will be the canary in the coal mine.

They got access to and share an enormous amount of data.

For life, I would think it would be very difficult to get the state insurance dept to approve an exclusion for a a virus or vaccine. For p&c, I would think that most have already added ISO communicable disease exclusion.

6-months later.

Anybody in the insurance industry know whether claims are up over last year by any significant amount?

Not sure about the group side of claims but on individual policies, claims aren't up in any real statistical fashion. Death from a "new" disease was up but other types of claims were supposedly down over the last 2 years essentially balancing it out.

As far as new policy underwriting, life insurers don't have to get state approval for denying an application on a new policy based on a perceived health risk but their underwriting has to be fair across board (if they're going to deny someone on potential future Covid risk they'd have to deny a lot of people. They would have to get approval to go back and change their policies that are already in force, and it would likely be denied if they were dumb enough to do so. Many life insurance companies were adjusting how they underwrote policies by the end of the first quarter 2020 with regards to Covid. Some made people wait a year after a person had tested positive for it before a policy would be approved, some said six months, etc. I didn't see any that changed their contract to deny a death claim for it and I'm not sure they could/would be able to. It hasn't been around long enough to truly measure the risk.

Groups life insurance numbers might be a bit different since those people typically don't go through underwriting like individual policies do. That's going to allow more overweight and otherwise unhealthy people to get/have coverage and that's the subset that has tended to suffer most from Covid and Covid related issues.

Pulled this from an F16 thread. Seems relevant here:

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-40-among-people-ages-18-64

Deaths up 40%. That is shocking.

YouBet said:

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Pulled this from an F16 thread. Seems relevant here:

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-40-among-people-ages-18-64

Deaths up 40%. That is shocking.

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I saw that and something seems….off….with the numbers or how he stated it. To be fair, I'm not saying he's lying but you'd need to know what their claims numbers were prepandemic vs now; the percentage is only one part of the story. Did they average 50 claims prepandemic and this year they had 70? Or did they have 1000 and this year they had 1,400? One of those can be a fluke (both can actually), the other can be a raised eyebrow. He and the CDC both seemed to point to it not being Covid…so was there some weird increase in stress related heart attacks? Suicides? Multiple issues?

That pattern hasn't played out with other insurers (at least it's not being reported yet) so what weird problems occurred in Indiana among their working population?

Yes, it would be nice to see the data to understand context.

However, we do know deaths are up everywhere else if what we read is to be believed:

• Suicides are up due to lockdowns and depression and other reasons
• Drug overdoses are up (opioid epidemic still in full swing and fentanyl)
• Obesity rates skyrocketed (even more so) during COVID leading to more deaths across the board
• People delayed normal medical procedures during 2020 because of COVID which added to premature deaths

COVID has been a health disaster of epic proportions and arguably more to do with how it was handled than the actual disease. We probably will never know the full accounting of that though.

Leigh and former Blackrock Dowd address the rise in all-cause mortality seen in the second half of 2021 by actuaries. He points out that a +40% change is a once in a 200 year event. There is only one brand new potentially fatal exposure that shaded in the second half of 2021. pic.twitter.com/a90zv9x39n

— Peter McCullough, MD MPH (@P_McCulloughMD) February 17, 2022

from SoupNatzi2001 on another thread

Might be time to look at this again, no?

Life Insurance Payouts Jumped 163% During First Year Of Vaccine Rollout
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3297246/last

I'll still need to see more before I buy that it's related to anything specific.

I couldn't see the entire article due to the paywall but based on the comments during the thread I'm assuming they're comparing 2021 to 2020 and it looked like it was talking about group coverages correct? If that's the case, is it possible that there were a lot more people on Lincoln's group plans in 2021 than there were in 2020 as things opened back up? How were the 2021 numbers when compared to 2019? Was it still a significant rise?

There may be some interesting info in that that could point to a bigger issue, or it could be a gotcha article aimed at a particular group/issue/target. Without all of the info and additional data, I'm hesitant to put much stock into it.

I don't know what to believe about this. I really don't.

Somebody out there in the industry knows if its bs or not.

Anybody in the reinsurance market?

Y'all would know. What are you seeing?