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A real conversation about Silver

15,177 Views | 157 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by HECUBUS
Outdoorag011
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First and for most... this is not financial advice.

I know that other silver threads exist but this one will be way more in depth. Silver is the most undervalued asset on earth right now. It is the only metal to be under its 1980 high, and silver is 50% below it's high...

A little background about me. I have been in precious metals for almost a decade. I got into precious metals when I realized how truly messed up our economy was. I didn't want all my wealth tied up in a bunch of numbers on a computer screen. I wanted really tangible wealth that I could touch and hold. Wealth that has been around for awhile. Of course that has lead me to gold and silver, as well as real estate. Gold and silver have been used as money and a storage of wealth for 5000+ years. The first thing people need to realize is that precious metals are real money. Money is something that has a store of value even if a countries currency is not tied to it. If silver was never denominated in dollars, it still has value. Land is also money/real wealth. Land has great intrinsic value outside of whatever monetary value is given to it by the US dollar. You can still grow crops and provide for your family even if a fiat currency isn't tied to your land. The US dollar is currency, not money. It has 0 intrinsic value if it's not being used. Examples are all around us of fiat currencies that have 0 value. The ones most people know about is the Venezuelan Bolivar and the Zimbabwean dollar. Now when I say I got into metals, that doesn't mean I pulled out of everything. I still have my 401k and Roth IRA that I contribute to. It's not smart to put all your eggs in one basket.


99% of people on this board/everyday life have really bad misconceptions about gold and silver. Mainly because they don't do any research of their own and just go off what CNBC, fox business and Bloomberg say. The common stance most people have about precious metals but mainly silver is that it's a hobby or something to collect for your "coin collection". While these are true, this is the extreme rudimentary thinking of precious metals. Simply put, your life would not exist the way it does right now without silver. Silver is the second most versatile commodity on earth, only behind oil. Silver has over 10,000 uses. Silver is in every phone, laptop, computer, most cameras, every solar panel. Silver is the most conductive metal we have, which is why it's used in solar panels and electronics. It is more conductive than copper. The medical industry has seen a massive increase in the usage of silver. Silver is antimicrobial and antiviral for a lot of different virus. It's used in a lot of medical instruments and lab coats because of its antimicrobial properties.The world is moving towards a tech based society in almost every way. A society that MUST have silver to function. Copper and graphine are not acceptable enough solutions because they both have their own problems. Now let's get into the meat and potatoes of this post.

I was going to post a really drawn out summary of why silver is such a good play right now. However WallStreetsilver on Reddit has already done that for me. Please take the time to read the links I have provided. It is very chart and graph based with some technical analysis of the silver industry.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/lnzeho/the_silver_short_squeeze_is_glaringly_obvious_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/n23cip/big_powerful_jp_morgan_rides_in_to_save_comex_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Wallstreetsilver/comments/mwi0d5/welcome/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

The goal for someone like me is to get more people aware of the MASSIVE manipulation of the silver and gold markets by the banks and the COMEX. When you read about silver, you'll find out that it is the most shorted position in the entire world. It differs by the day/week but as of April.... the short position was 573% of the float. Yes you read that correctly..... 573%. To put it into perspective, GME that made all the headlines because of the massive short position was only 140% short on its float. The corruption is on another level. JP Morgan just paid $920 million because they were trying manipulate the precious metals and treasury markets.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/jpmorgan-chase-co-agrees-pay-920-million-connection-schemes-defraud-precious-metals-and-us


I hope y'all take the time to give silver a chance. If you have any questions, please post them and I will answer them.

Thank you for your time.
jagvocate
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AG
I love silver it's just damn hard to tote around in significant quantities.

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TxAG#2011
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Yea I've noticed how basically everything besides metals appear to be pumping.

I think next year is going to be huge and I've been buying GDXJ leaps.
YouBet
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AG
I think you've posted this before but what are your preferred options for actually purchasing and owning silver?

Where to buy physical silver online?
Are there funds to invest in that are worth it or are you 100% physical?
Outdoorag011
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Not a bad idea. Are your positions in precious metals mostly in the ETFs?
Casey TableTennis
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AG
Why should anyone care the value of silver today vs the high on 1980? The market was cornered then and in no way indicative of value at that time.

Silver has historically been one of, if not the most, manipulated financial instruments. Why will this time be different in trying to overcome those dynamics?
Scud Runner
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Not fooling me again HoustonAggie
Outdoorag011
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Thanks for the questions. I personally only advocate for buying the physical metal and if you want to play the paper market, PSLV is the best and most honest one to play. For the love of everything, do not invest in SLV. I am going to add to my original post about the reasons to not invest in SLV. I'm 90% in physical silver and 10% PSLV. I live under the mindset when it comes to silver that if you don't hold it, you don't own it. That particularly has come true lately (especially with the problems the Perth Mint have had the last few months with people requesting delivery of their allocated silver via paper contracts and the mint actually didn't have the silver. Even though the clients are paying storage fees.... on the silver the Perth Mint didn't even have.)

The best places to buy physical silver is:

Local coins shops in your city

Best and most reputable websites for buying online:

JM Bullion
SD Bullion
Apmex
Provident metals
Bullion Exchanges
Monument Metals
Scottsdale Mint
Bison Bullion

Also eBay is a good place to buy as well. Now when I say eBay I mean all the websites I listed above have eBay pages. You can buy gold and silver from any of these websites but on their eBay page. A lot of the time they actually have better prices on their eBay pages. Also you can pay via CC and get points on your card to bring the price down. I do not advocate for buying gold and silver from individual sellers. A lot of fake items out there so if you do buy on eBay, only buy from the websites they have eBay pages.
Definitely Not A Cop
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AG
Sorry Buddy.

$30,000 Millionaire
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AG
I buy gold and silver every month. I am starting to mix in some crypto into that allocation.
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
Bird Poo
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AG
I get overwhelmed with the eagles, the bars, the buffalos, the indians, etc.

Do I just buy the cheapest stuff I can find? Is there any specifications I should be looking for when I go shopping? Should I go mint? Why would it matter?
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Outdoorag011
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How exactly did they corner the market? They bought silver over the course of a decade. Continuously rolling futures contracts in an effort to not take enough silver out of the bullion warehouses. The global supply of silver in the 70-early 80s was 300 million ozs but the demand was 500 million. So every year the exchanges had to come up with more silver to meet the demand. They could do that because at that time, their were massive silver hoards that took centuries to build. That was all depleted in about a decade. Also one person can't corner a market by taking delivery of the physical metal. You corner the market by continually shorting the futures market. The paper price of silver controls the price way more than the physical does. So by that standard, you could say JP Morgan which has the largest short position right now is cornering the market.

Also during the congressional hearing that took place after the hunt brothers, it was found that 9 of the 23 members of the board of governors for the CFTC had massive short positions in silver. They made a TON of currency when the CFTC changed the rules and killed the hunt brothers position.
Outdoorag011
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Absolutely nothing wrong with buying the cheapest 1 oz silver rounds. Buffalos from a reputable mint is a good generic round. Also the sunshine mint has probably the best silver round. It is some of the cheapest silver you can get but also comes with a security feature that makes it hard to counterfeit.

Eagles are great because they are the most recognizable silver coin on earth. Same way the gold krugerrand is the most recognized gold coin. However the premiums in eagles right now are insane. I would advise anyone to not buy eagles right now. Candadian maple leafs, Austrian philharmonic, British Britannias are also coins that come from government mints. They are all very recognizable and very trustworthy when you go to sell them to people. The greatest thing with those coins are that they have lower premiums than eagles. So I would go with some of those coins and 1 oz generic rounds right now. But remember to only buy from reputable dealers and I put a list of them a few comments up. Also no harm in buying silver bars. They are pretty cheap and also easy to sell as well.
Outdoorag011
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Hahaha trust me, I love it too!! But silver is the better play!
TxAG#2011
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Outdoorag011 said:

Not a bad idea. Are your positions in precious metals mostly in the ETFs?


Yes. But I think miners will outperform spot when the bull market hits.
Ulrich
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How is shipping handled on physical silver purchased online? Is it secret? Is it safe?
Outdoorag011
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Yes it is both safe and secure. Most bullion companies used auto part descriptions on the packages. My last box had ball bearings under the description. They definitely won't say precious metals or silver and gold on the package.
Txhuntr
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AG
I do most of my online ordering through apmex and silver gold bull. All shipped orders are insured. The fee is usually waived if ordering more than $200-300
AgEng06
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AG
So as someone who has never bought silver...

Do you recommend just looking up those sellers through eBay and buying that way?

Is there a good way to look at what each coin "should" cost before buying, or is it more about just finding a price that you are ok with paying?

I saw the post about not buying eagles and to look at maple leafs, etc, so I will do that.
JSKolache
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AG
OK, so when is it going ot the moooon?
Done7
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Prob after bitcoin and Ethereum 10x from current prices.

Outdoorag011
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Yeah just find what coin you like and price match it on all of those website as well the eBay pages for those websites. Their eBay pages may be the cheapest option. If you buy from the website, do the E-check option if they have it. If you pay by check or E-check you get a better price. Paying by CC is the most expensive option.
Outdoorag011
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Haha I wish I knew. If the paper market wasn't the most manipulated market on earth... it would have mooned a decade ago.
TxAG#2011
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7k Comex contracts dumped this morning? They are literally just dumping IOU's on the market aren't they?
agcrock2005
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AG
Good thread. Thanks OP
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AgEng06
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AG
Thank you.

So what's the deal with "junk silver"?
Outdoorag011
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Every single day. 45 millons paper ozs were added today to the comex "open interest". Which resulted in the price dropping today. 416 million ounces were traded today. That's about half the WORLD supply for a year. They can get away with it because no one calls their bluff. Even if they call the bluff, most contracts are settled in cash. Very few actually take physical delivery of the metal itself. The contract holder will actually in certain circumstances give out a bonus if the long position takes cash as delivery instead of metal. That is all changing. Companies and individuals are actually taking deliveries at a good pace.
Outdoorag011
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Junk silver is another term for "constitutional silver". It's a term given to coins that were minted by the US government from 1964 and before. A majority of the coins minted by the US were minted in silver. 1964 was the last year they minted coins for circulation with silver. So before 1964, all the quarters, dimes, nickels, half dollars and dollars were minted in silver. Stacking junk silver is a great way to avoid premiums on the spot price and you get silver in smaller denominations that would make it easier to trade/barter with in case of bad times.
Outdoorag011
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$10 seems to be the resistance level. $10 is a big number for the shorts. Pass $10 and you can see $15 very soon. Now if silver ever takes off.... PSLV would also take off because PSLV now has more physical silver under management than the COMEX. One reason that PSLV is far superior to SLV is because PSLV takes possession of the metal themselves. SLV does not. SLV has a custodian for its physical silver needs. When people take delivery from SLV, the custodian is none other than....... JP Morgan. Ergo most contracts via SLV are settled in cash and not the metal. JP Morgan gives bonuses if you settle in cash.
ChiefKiefton
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Great info!
Ulrich
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So if the short interest is similar (even larger) than what happened with GME, if there is a really short squeeze (on spot contracts, I assume) is the PSLV upside $15 or is it a 10x or 50x? Is there something fundamentally different about an ETF holding physical assets vs a traditional corporate equity that changes how it reacts to a short squeeze?

Is it relevant that the short interest isn't directly in PSLV, it's in an asset class of which PSLV is a significant and credible owner. I'm trying to understand how all this would really play out. Did I read that PSLV owners actually can ask for silver instead of currency when they exit? Would that create the arbitrage opportunity that would peg PSLV to a spike in physical spot pricing?
gonemaroon
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AG
Gold and Silver are so manipulated it's not even funny.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jp-morgan-hsbc-sued-for-silver-manipulation-2010-10-27

"The suit says J.P. Morgan and HSBC in August 2008 together held 85% of the net short position in silver and by the first quarter 2009 held $7.9 billion in precious metal derivatives."

With the FED window wide open / doing gods work for the Federal Reserve and banking overlords. That size of a position at a bank after the financial crisis is totally absurd / which means the FED is using JPM to do it and ordering them to do it.
 
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