LatinAggie1997 said:

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1. I don't schill, not by any definition or connotation.
2. The conversation is primarily about BTC.
3. ADA is not centralized, especially when compared to Solana and ETH.
ONE will become more decentralized.

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1. Call it what you want. You and Katie have similar posts at times.
3. I'm not comparing ADA to SOL or ETH. 10% of whales control 90%+ of all coins based on an article I read last month. That's disgustingly centralized when governance is dictated by votes on a PoS type model.

I didn't compare it to anything but compare it to BTC as the standard for decentralization.

NTXAg10 said:

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LatinAggie1997 said:

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1. I don't schill, not by any definition or connotation.
2. The conversation is primarily about BTC.
3. ADA is not centralized, especially when compared to Solana and ETH.
ONE will become more decentralized.

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1. Call it what you want. You and Katie have similar posts at times.
3. I'm not comparing ADA to SOL or ETH. 10% of whales control 90%+ of all coins based on an article I read last month. That's disgustingly centralized when governance is dictated by votes on a PoS type model.

I didn't compare it to anything but compare it to BTC as the standard for decentralization.

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If it isn't too much trouble, can you link article

ac04 said:

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more info on how this idea works near the end of this article

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/business/bitcoin-is-the-future-of-our-energy-grid

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Thank you. Great article that helped. And thanks to everyone else responding.

Summary: miners gravitate to geographic areas where there is wasted energy that is cheap to buy in order to power their mining equipment.

Question: I'm still not making the connection on how miners would give back energy to the grid in their own downtimes though....? Miners are consuming extraneous energy for their own mining needs so how are they storing it and how would that be given back to the grid? I feel like a dumbass and that I'm missing something obvious. This sounds like a solar example where an individual could store up excess solar energy during the day and then give back to the grid at night during off peak load times, but I'm missing the two way connection with BTC that solar has....

Two other things, I recommend going to Iceland. You can see their geothermal infrastructure fairly up close and see the "pipes" traveling through the countryside delivering that energy. Pretty damn cool from an engineering standpoint.

And I love this graph:

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/269383/20211214/whales-control-94-of-all-ada-supply-only-10-of-wealthiest-cardano-addresses.htm

NTXAg10 said:

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LatinAggie1997 said:

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1. I don't schill, not by any definition or connotation.
2. The conversation is primarily about BTC.
3. ADA is not centralized, especially when compared to Solana and ETH.
ONE will become more decentralized.

---

1. Call it what you want. You and Katie have similar posts at times.
3. I'm not comparing ADA to SOL or ETH. 10% of whales control 90%+ of all coins based on an article I read last month. That's disgustingly centralized when governance is dictated by votes on a PoS type model.

I didn't compare it to anything but compare it to BTC as the standard for decentralization.

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1. Katie? Ridiculous but par for the course from you.
2. That article was probably written by folks with a big position in ETH and are worried. One article gets copied amongst other sites amd spread.
3. My pillar comment was specific to BTC being the conversation and article were about BTC.

Look at low activity versus high activity. Most of the large activity holders are exchanges.

As said on another forum.
On one hand it's block production is decentralised hense the d parameter being set to Zero. By far the most decentralised than ethereum and Bitcoin and any other project. but on the other hand the cardano foundation, IOG and Emurgo still hold the keys to the back door so to speak as they can still perform hard forks and change parameters on the network for example.

Some parts of cardano are still federated but the plan is to ease into letting everything go once the proper foundations are set. Decentralisation in my opinion is a multi layered thing just because one part of it is decentralised doesn't mean it's "fully decentralised" we still have a long way to go but it is certainly miles ahead than any other blockchain.

I really wish I paid for a laugh/cry in these situations.

Ad hominem responses and the same tired "must be an ETH conspiracy" tripe. How very F16 of you.

Ultimately, I don't care if you buy ADA, Lith, SOL, ETH or BTC. I make observations and but actually know very little. Hindsight will prove who was right at some point.

My bad. That was below the belt to f16.

NTXAg10 said:

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https://www.techtimes.com/articles/269383/20211214/whales-control-94-of-all-ada-supply-only-10-of-wealthiest-cardano-addresses.htm

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Thanks!

YouBet said:

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ac04 said:

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more info on how this idea works near the end of this article

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/business/bitcoin-is-the-future-of-our-energy-grid

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Thank you. Great article that helped. And thanks to everyone else responding.

Summary: miners gravitate to geographic areas where there is wasted energy that is cheap to buy in order to power their mining equipment.

Question: I'm still not making the connection on how miners would give back energy to the grid in their own downtimes though....? Miners are consuming extraneous energy for their own mining needs so how are they storing it and how would that be given back to the grid? I feel like a dumbass and that I'm missing something obvious. This sounds like a solar example where an individual could store up excess solar energy during the day and then give back to the grid at night during off peak load times, but I'm missing the two way connection with BTC that solar has....

Two other things, I recommend going to Iceland. You can see their geothermal infrastructure fairly up close and see the "pipes" traveling through the countryside delivering that energy. Pretty damn cool from an engineering standpoint.

And I love this graph:

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This may help bring more clarity to the subject

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/aug/17/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-mining-texas

Here is a good post explaining the physics behind it

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-does-load-affect-frequency-on-the-power-grid

The game theory behind mining is interesting. The more ppl that mine, the more decentralized BTC is. But lower the profit is for the miners (lower probability of mining any given block). I wonder how many miners would go out of business in a prolonged bear market. Especially if it coincided with the next halving.

Palovic said:

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YouBet said:

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ac04 said:

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more info on how this idea works near the end of this article

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/business/bitcoin-is-the-future-of-our-energy-grid

---

Thank you. Great article that helped. And thanks to everyone else responding.

Summary: miners gravitate to geographic areas where there is wasted energy that is cheap to buy in order to power their mining equipment.

Question: I'm still not making the connection on how miners would give back energy to the grid in their own downtimes though....? Miners are consuming extraneous energy for their own mining needs so how are they storing it and how would that be given back to the grid? I feel like a dumbass and that I'm missing something obvious. This sounds like a solar example where an individual could store up excess solar energy during the day and then give back to the grid at night during off peak load times, but I'm missing the two way connection with BTC that solar has....

Two other things, I recommend going to Iceland. You can see their geothermal infrastructure fairly up close and see the "pipes" traveling through the countryside delivering that energy. Pretty damn cool from an engineering standpoint.

And I love this graph:

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This may help bring more clarity to the subject

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/aug/17/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-mining-texas

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Thank you. This helped!

Quote:

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When demand for electricity goes up, particularly in the summer months, Texas power companies will actually pay mining facilities to lower their energy usage.

"If you were a miner that has a long-term power purchase agreement, then you own power at a fixed price … you're committing to buying energy for years no matter what," Les said.

"As a bitcoin miner, you essentially own that power, and that allows you to work like a virtual power plant. You can take the power that you agreed to buy at a fixed lower price, and then you can sell that back to the grid."

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Right. They are not storing anything. Storage is stupid expensive compared to generation. All they would be doing is reducing their usage and "selling" this excess capacity.

Rabbit hole that is pretty decent information for anyone that is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTZM4MrZKfW-ftqKGSbO-DwDiOGqNmq53

That's actually an interesting angle that really just plays with the words. Nothing is being stored but the ability to decrease power drain on demand is basically the same thing as energy storage. Fascinating concept, especially if paying back the miners will offset the cost of lost mining profit.

Decay said:

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That's actually an interesting angle that really just plays with the words. Nothing is being stored but the ability to decrease power drain on demand is basically the same thing as energy storage. Fascinating concept, especially if paying back the miners will offset the cost of lost mining profit.

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Which was why I was confused and forcing the issue. If miners aren't really storing anything then It's potentially a sleight of hand. In a vacuum this gains us nothing.

The premise here is that miners are harnessing wasted energy that is currently burning off into the atmosphere. To take it further, BTC advocates claim that no other medium besides BTC could accomplish this and therefore BTC is increasing the overall energy production of whatever locale these miners are attached to by merely being there. So, in that use case you've created new supply and are meeting demand that you can regulate via free market principles...which is awesome.

However, this is all theoretical because no one is actually harnessing this wasted energy. At the end of day, you've added demand to the grid (miners) with no ability to actually direct this wasted energy (supply) back into the grid. Paying miners to take a break just means you are reducing an already overloaded system.

Maybe the missing link here is that if miners keep gravitating to Texas because of low energy prices then companies will, in turn, build more infrastructure to compensate which could then allow for increased buffer in the overall system. That is the normal economic cause and effect here which maybe isn't being communicated clearly in any of these articles?

Ragoo said:

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If miners are on grid pulling load 24/7 then their long term purchase of power allows the state to invest in grid infrastructure that benefits everyone. Also keeps generation units online as there would be less ebb and flow of peak demand. In the event of an extreme situation the miners shut off and power is then used where it is most needed.

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Yes, this is same as my last paragraph maybe more eloquently stated.

You should dive into the mining council's recent video with saylor.

Full:

Synopsis:

Not could, IS FIXING

Passive income and interest are fiat / rent seeking phenomenon.

Under a #Bitcoin standard, to earn wealth you must take real risks or do actual work that someone values.

This will be great for society.

— Joe Burnett (🔑)³ (@IIICapital) January 30, 2022

So under a Bitcoin standard there's no rent to pay or landlords?

Rent-seeking =/= rent.

But yes, there will be far fewer landlords, and far more homeowners under a bitcoin standard as the housing market won't be completely lopsided due to the demand for investments in order to secure your wealth over time.

Homes are so over priced it's ridiculous.

administrative errors said:

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Rent-seeking =/= rent.

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Yes, but does he mean something different with passive income that we are missing?

One of the issues I have with the bitcoin stuff is talking in riddles like the entire subject matter is being led by Q.

It would behoove us to speak plainly about the topic in order to gain more converts.

Edited but yeah.

Clarity is for seekers, imo.

Youbet, have you got Telegram, yet?

administrative errors said:

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Youbet, have you got Telegram, yet?

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I do not. You put stuff on there, right?

administrative errors said:

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Youbet, have you got Telegram, yet?

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Interest is just the cost to borrow someone else's capital it's not a bad thing, it's necessary for allocation of resources

Sporadically, more often when I'm temp banned.

But really just want to converse 1on1 and satiate my curiousity.

Maybe I'm being naive but I don't see passive income from rentals going away because the standard moved to BTC. People will still seek rentals for short term living or lower income, regardless of the monetary system. It's been that way for a VERY long time and not market dependent.


Unless the tweet is talking about other passive incomes I'm not thinking of