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Paying an employee with corona

6,362 Views | 59 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Diggity
rlb28
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AG
We are a small business with 7 employees total, including myself.

When the first round of corona hit we paid for people to quarantine - sit at home because they might have been in contact with a positive corona case.

One employee had to be tested 5 times, missing work, and eventually was positive and we paid her.

Fast forward several months and she's telling us that her daughter (6 years old) might be positive (we'll know tomorrow) and she'll have to stay at home with her 14 days.

I know we aren't obligated to pay her. But corona is here and in a lot of cases you can't help it if you get it.

Would you pay her for another 14 days?
jwhitlock3
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Is the job position one where she could work remotely? I place a lot of value in working for a company that let's me take care of my family and put them first, but I think there's a mutually beneficial middle solution here. If working remote isn't an option, then is the job flexible enough to be done nights/weekends for the time being, or discuss taking PTO? Just my thoughts.
rlb28
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Didn't think of the remote idea, partly because I'm a little bit miffed and tons of thoughts were crossing my mind. Thanks!
Troy91
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While this does not technically apply to your company due to size, it is good information to see how others are handling the issue. I would struggle to offer more than this.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pandemic/ffcra-employee-paid-leave

Generally, the Act provides that employees of covered employers are eligible for:
  • Two weeks (up to 80 hours) of paid sick leave at the employee's regular rate of pay where the employee is unable to work because the employee is quarantined (pursuant to Federal, State, or local government order or advice of a health care provider), and/or experiencing COVID-19 symptoms and seeking a medical diagnosis; or
  • Two weeks (up to 80 hours) of paid sick leave at two-thirds the employee's regular rate of pay because the employee is unable to work because of a bona fide need to care for an individual subject to quarantine (pursuant to Federal, State, or local government order or advice of a health care provider), or to care for a child (under 18 years of age) whose school or child care provider is closed or unavailable for reasons related to COVID-19, and/or the employee is experiencing a substantially similar condition as specified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Secretaries of the Treasury and Labor; and
  • Up to an additional 10 weeks of paid expanded family and medical leave at two-thirds the employee's regular rate of pay where an employee, who has been employed for at least 30 calendar days, is unable to work due to a bona fide need for leave to care for a child whose school or child care provider is closed or unavailable for reasons related to COVID-19.

$30,000 Millionaire
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rlb28 said:

Didn't think of the remote idea, partly because I'm a little bit miffed and tons of thoughts were crossing my mind. Thanks!
why are you miffed?

If it's a good employee, find a way to work remotely and move on. I doubt your employee wants to be a burden. If they do, you know what action to take.
Rexter
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I'd look at it in such as that is this a valued employee, and what level of valuation is she at, and can your business absorb two weeks of lost productivity for those wages. If so, pay her. If not, do what you gotta do.
rlb28
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$30,000 Millionaire said:

rlb28 said:

Didn't think of the remote idea, partly because I'm a little bit miffed and tons of thoughts were crossing my mind. Thanks!
why are you miffed?

If it's a good employee, find a way to work remotely and move on. I doubt your employee wants to be a burden. If they do, you know what action to take.

Good employee who, at times, misses a lot of work. Causes morale problems because we don't dock pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play. Everyone else rarely misses work.

Btw... she's pregnant and will miss 2 or 3 months soon as well.
Bob Knights Paper Hands
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rlb28 said:


Btw... she's pregnant and will miss 2 or 3 months soon as well.

Pg 1 so when this is on Maury I can say I knew about this before it was famous.
Keeper of The Spirits
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Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
aggiedaniel06
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AG
We, as graduates of this top tier university take these these things for granted, but this is the unfortunate reality for so many fellow Americans.
satexas
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RLB,

As an employer of a small business, I would share the following with you if I was your partner :

1. What's the cost-replacement of this employee - as in, is this a good employee, and is this really worth 'going to the mat' over? How will it look to the other employees and affect morale and your respect? Maybe she's having a unique year but has been with you a long time and it's worth being 'invested in her' by doing what you have to do to keep her on the payroll.

2. If this is a 'problem employee' that is always finding ways to miss work - then fine - document it and start docking pay and eventually terminate her over THAT - but I would be far more lenient over THIS year's pandemic.

3. Keep in mind if you keep churning employees that end up filing unemployment on you after you terminate them, you're rates go thru the roof and that's tough too. You really want people to quit as a small business, not get terminated.

4. As discussed elsewhere in the thread - look at your 'remote' options. Working from home isn't hard and if you need a really economical but top-of-the-line phone system, send me a PM... we do phone systems here in Texas for thousands of businesses from small guys to big restaurant chains.... and most are <100/month and you can take your phones home if you want and still be part of the same phone network.

Gonna have to flush the toilet, but that's one expensive poo.
Ragoo
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She is abusing your lax policy

Hope that helps
rlb28
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Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.

And t&p for for any employer who paid his employees for three months of the coronavirus to sit at home two days a week because business was so bad.

Not everyone works for a corporation. At a small businesses everyone has to work later, come in earlier and pick up the slack for an employee who misses.

rlb28
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satexas said:

RLB,

As an employer of a small business, I would share the following with you if I was your partner :

1. What's the cost-replacement of this employee - as in, is this a good employee, and is this really worth 'going to the mat' over? How will it look to the other employees and affect morale and your respect? Maybe she's having a unique year but has been with you a long time and it's worth being 'invested in her' by doing what you have to do to keep her on the payroll.

2. If this is a 'problem employee' that is always finding ways to miss work - then fine - document it and start docking pay and eventually terminate her over THAT - but I would be far more lenient over THIS year's pandemic.

3. Keep in mind if you keep churning employees that end up filing unemployment on you after you terminate them, you're rates go thru the roof and that's tough too. You really want people to quit as a small business, not get terminated.

4. As discussed elsewhere in the thread - look at your 'remote' options. Working from home isn't hard and if you need a really economical but top-of-the-line phone system, send me a PM... we do phone systems here in Texas for thousands of businesses from small guys to big restaurant chains.... and most are <100/month and you can take your phones home if you want and still be part of the same phone network.


SA, all great points.

1 and 2. We have overlooked things with everyone because of corona, but as Ragoo stated, it seems this employee is taking advantage. Not a problem employee to me because she make me money, but having six other women pissed and catty because she's always missing work is an issue.

3. Average tenure here is nine years, so not an issue.

4. Could do some remote, but we have a lot of walk-in customers.

Thanks

TxAG#2011
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I'd pay her because I have a soul.
ABATTBQ11
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rlb28 said:

$30,000 Millionaire said:

rlb28 said:

Didn't think of the remote idea, partly because I'm a little bit miffed and tons of thoughts were crossing my mind. Thanks!
why are you miffed?

If it's a good employee, find a way to work remotely and move on. I doubt your employee wants to be a burden. If they do, you know what action to take.

Good employee who, at times, misses a lot of work. Causes morale problems because we don't dock pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play. Everyone else rarely misses work.

Btw... she's pregnant and will miss 2 or 3 months soon as well.


As long as she gets her work done and done well, none of that should be a problem. Work life balance is important, and if my job ever wants me to put my family second, they can **** right off. However, I continue to work where I do because I know that will never be an issue.
Comeby!
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I think it depends on the business. Is this an office or a service? Hourly or salary? What's the sick leave policy, vacation?

Sounds like you might've needed to come down harder on time issues earlier. Now with Covid and a pregnancy you are at risk of serious liability in the event she no longer works there for whatever reason.
rlb28
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Comeby! said:

I think it depends on the business. Is this an office or a service? Hourly or salary? What's the sick leave policy, vacation?

Sounds like you might've needed to come down harder on time issues earlier. Now with Covid and a pregnancy you are at risk of serious liability in the event she no longer works there for whatever reason.
100% Comeby! I've thought of that many times.

There's so many things I haven't mentioned or posted in regard to this original post - which was meant to talk about corona. I just posted to get feedback and in the end we've always done right by our employees and that's why we don't have turnover.
Azeew
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Depends upon how important she is to you. If you don't care if you lose her don't pay. If you want to keep her, pay her.
$30,000 Millionaire
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RLB,

Sorry for missing your reply until now. I would personally cut the employee loose. It sounds to me like the absences are beyond the realm of reasonable and I also get the impression that physical in-person presence is a core part of your work environment. There's an opportunity cost with keeping someone you aren't happy with, and issues like these tend not to improve.

I manage a large organization (500+) and extend a lot of trust to my employees on work hours, flexible schedules, you name it. What I expect in return is only a couple of things: 1) don't create a problem with our customers or your team mates, 2) get your work done at a high level of quality, 3) communicate your boundaries / needs to anyone that needs to know and never leave someone hanging with a dependent deliverable without arranging appropriate coverage.

What I look for is that people are within what I'll call one standard deviation of normal behavior. There are some people that love the office, rarely work from home, don't take vacation often, and are just generally available. There are others who work from home often, work half the day on Friday, but answer the phone and just get their work done well. I love both and look at output vs. optics provided they aren't going crazy in either direction. The people who don't work out are the ones who either burn out because they can't balance work and life or they can't handle the flexibility and don't deliver.
maddiedou
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TxAG#2011 said:

I'd pay her because I have a soul.


The reason you have a soul because you never employed people

If an employee makes 30 bucks an hour He. She. Cost the company 100 an hour at the minimum after taxes Vacation. Hospital leaves

And the employee has no risk. No risk. Just show up
maddiedou
satexas
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$30,000 Millionaire said:

RLB,

Sorry for missing your reply until now. I would personally cut the employee loose. It sounds to me like the absences are beyond the realm of reasonable and I also get the impression that physical in-person presence is a core part of your work environment. There's an opportunity cost with keeping someone you aren't happy with, and issues like these tend not to improve.

I manage a large organization (500+) and extend a lot of trust to my employees on work hours, flexible schedules, you name it. What I expect in return is only a couple of things: 1) don't create a problem with our customers or your team mates, 2) get your work done at a high level of quality, 3) communicate your boundaries / needs to anyone that needs to know and never leave someone hanging with a dependent deliverable without arranging appropriate coverage.

What I look for is that people are within what I'll call one standard deviation of normal behavior. There are some people that love the office, rarely work from home, don't take vacation often, and are just generally available. There are others who work from home often, work half the day on Friday, but answer the phone and just get their work done well. I love both and look at output vs. optics provided they aren't going crazy in either direction. The people who don't work out are the ones who either burn out because they can't balance work and life or they can't handle the flexibility and don't deliver.

No offense, but it's far easier to take that approach when your staff is 500, and not 7. You could literally just randomly delete 10 people tomorrow and not feel a thing. He can't do that.

I think people giving this guy advice need to consider the size of his business and how it functions - because that matters and forced him to dictate his actions to it.
Gonna have to flush the toilet, but that's one expensive poo.
rlb28
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Corona didn't strike this time. Thanks for the opinions and advice.
$30,000 Millionaire
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No offense taken. I've been a small business owner in the past, I know how it goes. If 1/7 of your team is creating a problem, you've got to move on. I was just sharing what I do in case it was beneficial for OP or anyone else.

For the record, I would certainly feel the 'deletion' of 10 people.
TxAG#2011
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maddiedou said:

TxAG#2011 said:

I'd pay her because I have a soul.


The reason you have a soul because you never employed people

If an employee makes 30 bucks an hour He. She. Cost the company 100 an hour at the minimum after taxes Vacation. Hospital leaves

And the employee has no risk. No risk. Just show up
That's a lot of assumptions you just made to just affirm your preconceived narrative. The thought of firing someone because they have to stay home with their possibly sick child is abhorrent, in my view. It's not 1970 anymore, lets start acting like it.
94chem
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At least pay with some Karbach or Saint Arnold's if they're doing decent work.
62strat
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rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.




WGAS.. the real analysis should be, does she get her work done?

If so, then don't micromanage her. If she doesn't, then take proper action and move on to find someone who can take all those 2 hour off 29 times but still get their work done.

I'm leaving today at 2:30 to go sign the papers on a travel trailer. I leave early on fridays often when we take weekend trips throughout the year. I come in late when I want to walk my kid to school.

But I get my work done, so it's not an issue.
rlb28
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62strat said:

rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.




WGAS.. the real analysis should be, does she get her work done?

If so, then don't micromanage her. If she doesn't, then take proper action and move on to find someone who can take all those 2 hour off 29 times but still get their work done.

I'm leaving today at 2:30 to go sign the papers on a travel trailer. I leave early on fridays often when we take weekend trips throughout the year. I come in late when I want to walk my kid to school.

But I get my work done, so it's not an issue.
I get what you're saying. A lot of our business has walk-in customers and phone call customers.

Btw... betcha I can get you a better rate on your travel trailer than where you're gonna insure it now.
62strat
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maddiedou said:

TxAG#2011 said:

I'd pay her because I have a soul.


The reason you have a soul because you never employed people

If an employee makes 30 bucks an hour He. She. Cost the company 100 an hour at the minimum after taxes Vacation.
A 333% labor burden rate?

Do they have like 25 weeks of vacation?
62strat
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rlb28 said:

62strat said:

rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.




WGAS.. the real analysis should be, does she get her work done?

If so, then don't micromanage her. If she doesn't, then take proper action and move on to find someone who can take all those 2 hour off 29 times but still get their work done.

I'm leaving today at 2:30 to go sign the papers on a travel trailer. I leave early on fridays often when we take weekend trips throughout the year. I come in late when I want to walk my kid to school.

But I get my work done, so it's not an issue.
I get what you're saying. A lot of our business has walk-in customers and phone call customers.

Btw... betcha I can get you a better rate on your travel trailer than where you're gonna insure it now.
pm me. I currently have progressive (for the trailer I just sold, but keeping policy active)

Something cool they do is disappearing deductible. It started at $500 and loses $100 every year of no claims.. so currently it's at $300 and will be only $200 in April, then gone by 2023.

rlb28
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62strat said:

rlb28 said:

62strat said:

rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.




WGAS.. the real analysis should be, does she get her work done?

If so, then don't micromanage her. If she doesn't, then take proper action and move on to find someone who can take all those 2 hour off 29 times but still get their work done.

I'm leaving today at 2:30 to go sign the papers on a travel trailer. I leave early on fridays often when we take weekend trips throughout the year. I come in late when I want to walk my kid to school.

But I get my work done, so it's not an issue.
I get what you're saying. A lot of our business has walk-in customers and phone call customers.

Btw... betcha I can get you a better rate on your travel trailer than where you're gonna insure it now.
pm me. I currently have progressive (for the trailer I just sold, but keeping policy active)

Something cool they do is disappearing deductible. It started at $500 and loses $100 every year of no claims.. so currently it's at $300 and will be only $200 in April, then gone by 2023.


Keep it with Progressive. That's who I would quote it with. They are unbeatable right now and have been for about 2 years. On specialty lines their coverage and rates are second to none.
O'Doyle Rules
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rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.

And t&p for for any employer who paid his employees for three months of the coronavirus to sit at home two days a week because business was so bad.

Not everyone works for a corporation. At a small businesses everyone has to work later, come in earlier and pick up the slack for an employee who misses.




Did you take PPP money?
nonameag99
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TxAG#2011 said:

maddiedou said:

TxAG#2011 said:

I'd pay her because I have a soul.


The reason you have a soul because you never employed people

If an employee makes 30 bucks an hour He. She. Cost the company 100 an hour at the minimum after taxes Vacation. Hospital leaves

And the employee has no risk. No risk. Just show up
That's a lot of assumptions you just made to just affirm your preconceived narrative. The thought of firing someone because they have to stay home with their possibly sick child is abhorrent, in my view. It's not 1970 anymore, lets start acting like it.
You and whoever starred this post need a reality check
The Aggie number specified has already been linked with another TexAgs account.
nonameag99
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62strat said:

maddiedou said:

TxAG#2011 said:

I'd pay her because I have a soul.


The reason you have a soul because you never employed people

If an employee makes 30 bucks an hour He. She. Cost the company 100 an hour at the minimum after taxes Vacation.
A 333% labor burden rate?

Do they have like 25 weeks of vacation?
Your profit margin is way to low in your calculation

I forgot that you are a Democrat that got banned from Houston

The Aggie number specified has already been linked with another TexAgs account.
rlb28
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O'Doyle Rules said:

rlb28 said:

Keeper of The Spirits said:

Thoughts and prayers for anyone who has to work somewhere that they think maternity leave and not docking pay for a doctor's appointment or going to see ur kid in a school play is a benefit
And thoughts and prayers for any employer who has heart (or lack of brain) to not dock an employee for missing work for at least two hours 29 different times. Including doctor's appointments, kid's play, husband loses keys, early to get to a bachelorette party, dog got out of the fence and so on.

And t&p for for any employer who paid his employees for three months of the coronavirus to sit at home two days a week because business was so bad.

Not everyone works for a corporation. At a small businesses everyone has to work later, come in earlier and pick up the slack for an employee who misses.




Did you take PPP money?
no
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