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Venture Capitalism

3,807 Views | 38 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by dc509
WaltonAg18
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Howdy y'all,

I was sent from the politics board to ask a couple questions. My understanding of venture capitalism is one that isn't exactly positive, where large companies pool resources to take advantage of smaller companies, squeeze them dry, and then allow them to fail. I've never heard of a venture capitalist venture that ended well for the smaller companies, and I was hoping for some insight from those that have likely dealt with them in some way or another. I don't mean to offend or start any malice, to be clear.

Thank y'all in advance!
leoj
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Sounds more like private equity, venture capital is a more specific type of PE for start ups that can't get debt capital.

Also you are thinking of high profile cases such as Sears and Toys R Us where yes, the PE firms in my view were destructive and not working in the acquired company's long term interests.

However, lots of PE operates with middle market companies and can, and in the view of the PE firm if they want to make any money, should result in operational efficiencies, new products or markets explored, financial or management improvements, etc. The PE firm is trying to make a return on their investment, they don't do that by making the company worse off than it was when they bought into it.

Now sometimes this does result in layoffs or breaking up a company by selling off units usually to try and focus on profitable areas or core competencies, and like any industry there are people/players who maybe act in a heartless or even not intelligent manner that doesn't work out well in the end. But there are literally tons of case studies of PE forms achieving turnarounds and successes even at very large companies.
Ragoo
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The internet is a great resource

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/venturecapitalist.asp
Casey TableTennis
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WaltonAg18 said:

Howdy y'all,

I was sent from the politics board to ask a couple questions. My understanding of venture capitalism is one that isn't exactly positive, where large companies pool resources to take advantage of smaller companies, squeeze them dry, and then allow them to fail. I've never heard of a venture capitalist venture that ended well for the smaller companies, and I was hoping for some insight from those that have likely dealt with them in some way or another. I don't mean to offend or start any malice, to be clear.

Thank y'all in advance!


VC provides funding to small and/or emerging companies. These companies have less funding options through banks and public markets, VC helps them. Obviously many don't work out as planned/hoped, but they often would have failed quicker without VC being available in the first place.

You seem to be describing "vulture" capital or LBO markets. These are players in the distressed asset markets where more of what you described occurs.
Ragoo
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I am curious why you think big companies pool their money to take over and squeeze out a little company into failure. That is not capitalistic, it is parasitic.

Class of '18 I assume. Lots to learn kid.
Ragoo
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leoj said:

Sounds more like private equity, venture capital is a more specific type of PE for start ups that can't get debt capital.

Also you are thinking of high profile cases such as Sears and Toys R Us where yes, the PE firms in my view were destructive and not working in the acquired company's long term interests.

However, lots of PE operates with middle market companies and can, and in the view of the PE firm if they want to make any money, should result in operational efficiencies, new products or markets explored, financial or management improvements, etc. The PE firm is trying to make a return on their investment, they don't do that by making the company worse off than it was when they bought into it.

Now sometimes this does result in layoffs or breaking up a company by selling off units usually to try and focus on profitable areas or core competencies, and like any industry there are people/players who maybe act in a heartless or even not intelligent manner that doesn't work out well in the end. But there are literally tons of case studies of PE forms achieving turnarounds and successes even at very large companies.
VCs work in the interest of their investors. They have zero obligation to the company they are acquiring. Long before the transaction is approved the VC has put together a detailed plan of their intentions to minimize risk and maximize the return of their invested capital.
CS78
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.
Ag with kids
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WaltonAg18 said:

Howdy y'all,

I was sent from the politics board to ask a couple questions. My understanding of venture capitalism is one that isn't exactly positive, where large companies pool resources to take advantage of smaller companies, squeeze them dry, and then allow them to fail. I've never heard of a venture capitalist venture that ended well for the smaller companies, and I was hoping for some insight from those that have likely dealt with them in some way or another. I don't mean to offend or start any malice, to be clear.

Thank y'all in advance!


You've never heard of Apple?
Ag with kids
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Casey TableTennis said:

WaltonAg18 said:

Howdy y'all,

I was sent from the politics board to ask a couple questions. My understanding of venture capitalism is one that isn't exactly positive, where large companies pool resources to take advantage of smaller companies, squeeze them dry, and then allow them to fail. I've never heard of a venture capitalist venture that ended well for the smaller companies, and I was hoping for some insight from those that have likely dealt with them in some way or another. I don't mean to offend or start any malice, to be clear.

Thank y'all in advance!


VC provides funding to small and/or emerging companies. These companies have less funding options through banks and public markets, VC helps them. Obviously many don't work out as planned/hoped, but they often would have failed quicker without VC being available in the first place.

You seem to be describing "vulture" capital or LBO markets. These are players in the distressed asset markets where more of what you described occurs.


Basically Warren Buffet's career...
gig em 02
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Ragoo said:

I am curious why you think big companies pool their money to take over and squeeze out a little company into failure. That is not capitalistic, it is parasitic.

Class of '18 I assume. Lots to learn kid.
I'm more curious why/how he logically separates big companies and rich powerful people from government/politicians, other than the name and the politicians power to enslave, they are truly one and the same.

At the end of the day, large companies and the wealthy control the government. If you give the government control over healthcare and education then these same evil corporations are now in control over who gets healthcare. The two always have been and always will be inseparable. This is why intelligent, logical people want government at the federal level to have as little power as possible. The states would get more power and the local government more power because at smaller levels it provides (1) accountability and an easier ship to change course and (2) hundreds/thousands of different places with different rules that you can choose to live under.
gig em 02
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The key to capitalism is that it is two consenting adults agreeing to do business together. If a grown up consents to a business decision that harms them, why should I also be punished? You don't believe that every single activity and decision should be mandated and governed by a group of .... powerful rich people?
Old RV Ag
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Ag with kids said:

WaltonAg18 said:

Howdy y'all,

I was sent from the politics board to ask a couple questions. My understanding of venture capitalism is one that isn't exactly positive, where large companies pool resources to take advantage of smaller companies, squeeze them dry, and then allow them to fail. I've never heard of a venture capitalist venture that ended well for the smaller companies, and I was hoping for some insight from those that have likely dealt with them in some way or another. I don't mean to offend or start any malice, to be clear.

Thank y'all in advance!


You've never heard of Apple?
More recent example is Google. Uber as well.
leoj
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The google vc money is first page of my PE book for class this semester. Sequoia and Kleiner Perkins made about a 344x return on their initial investment. Not bad. Don't even want to think what that would be worth now if people held onto their shares.
ORAggieFan
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I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Old RV Ag
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ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
Diyala Nick
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Ragoo said:

leoj said:

Sounds more like private equity, venture capital is a more specific type of PE for start ups that can't get debt capital.

Also you are thinking of high profile cases such as Sears and Toys R Us where yes, the PE firms in my view were destructive and not working in the acquired company's long term interests.

However, lots of PE operates with middle market companies and can, and in the view of the PE firm if they want to make any money, should result in operational efficiencies, new products or markets explored, financial or management improvements, etc. The PE firm is trying to make a return on their investment, they don't do that by making the company worse off than it was when they bought into it.

Now sometimes this does result in layoffs or breaking up a company by selling off units usually to try and focus on profitable areas or core competencies, and like any industry there are people/players who maybe act in a heartless or even not intelligent manner that doesn't work out well in the end. But there are literally tons of case studies of PE forms achieving turnarounds and successes even at very large companies.
VCs work in the interest of their investors. They have zero obligation to the company they are acquiring. Long before the transaction is approved the VC has put together a detailed plan of their intentions to minimize risk and maximize the return of their invested capital.


Their first interest is to their investors. That said, if a VC is taking board seats it has a very real fiduciary obligation to act in the best interest of all shareholders, be they common or preferred.

There are good VCs and there are bad VCs. At the right time, it can be a difference maker for quickly growing companies that have found product-market fit.
lb3
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leoj
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That's actually a really cool story, thanks for sharing. That's how it should be done, for sure.
IrishTxAggie
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Does the name Peter Thiel ring a bell?
mazag08
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Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
LOL.

OP got absolutely demolished on the politics board by people who have experienced, understand, and both succeeded and failed in the real world. OP is admittedly teetering the line between socialistic and communist person beliefs, as you can see by his knowledge of VC firms.

If you want to bag on the politics board, go ahead. But I'd wager most of the non-wannabe-communists there are pretty dang smart.
IrishTxAggie
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Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
Wonder if he'll come back and say he's wrong because of his girlfriend on this too.
leoj
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I don't think it's that unreasonable though for people to hear the horror stories, especially major ones like Sears, and think it is how the whole industry operates. People are normally pretty ignorant of most aspects of finance and investing.
IrishTxAggie
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leoj said:

I don't think it's that unreasonable though for people to hear the horror stories, especially major ones like Sears, and think it is how the whole industry operates. People are normally pretty ignorant of most aspects of finance and investing.

Sears was dead well before Lampert took it over.
Proposition Joe
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mazag08 said:

Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
If you want to bag on the politics board, go ahead. But I'd wager most of the non-wannabe-communists there are pretty dang smart.

I think people who talk politics on a public message forum on the very antithesis of "pretty dang smart".
Old RV Ag
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mazag08 said:

Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
LOL.

OP got absolutely demolished on the politics board by people who have experienced, understand, and both succeeded and failed in the real world. OP is admittedly teetering the line between socialistic and communist person beliefs, as you can see by his knowledge of VC firms.

If you want to bag on the politics board, go ahead. But I'd wager most of the non-wannabe-communists there are pretty dang smart.
Dang sonny - you've sure got your panties in a wad. I'm sure he got destroyed on the Politics board and was just as incoherent there as he was here. OP has no understanding of what venture capital really is. Take a chill Mr. LOL.
Old RV Ag
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Proposition Joe said:

mazag08 said:

Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
If you want to bag on the politics board, go ahead. But I'd wager most of the non-wannabe-communists there are pretty dang smart.

I think people who talk politics on a public message forum on the very antithesis of "pretty dang smart".
No talking needed. Just post this and you'll get 80 stars.

Old RV Ag
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IrishTxAggie said:

Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.
Wonder if he'll come back and say he's wrong because of his girlfriend on this too.
Didn't see the thread on Politics but I did look for it. So, blamed it on the girlfriend - classic.
IrishTxAggie
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"LOCK HER UP" is good for another 50 or so.
IrishTxAggie
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The guy suing Target over the toothbrush coupon

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3090182
Old RV Ag
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IrishTxAggie said:

The guy suing Target over the toothbrush coupon

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3090182
Whoa, good gosh. Thanks for the link.
Deputy Travis Junior
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OP, man, it's a bad look when you start out with "I hate X firms because they do Y!" and you're fundamentally wrong on what those firms even do. Basically every big tech company out there took venture capital money at some point. Venture capital investment involves rich people listening to pitches from start-ups, funding some of them in exchange for ownership interests, and then doing their damndest to help the companies succeed. If they do, everybody gets rich and the world gets a useful product. There are no losers. If the company fails, the venture capitalist is usually left with nothing; very young companies don't have many valuable assets that the investor can use to recoup the investment.

Private equity is edgier. Those firms usually find distressed companies with "good bones," invest/buy into them, cut expenses and lean out operations to return the company to profitability, and then sell the revitalized company at a profit. It's important to point out that the redundancies and inefficiencies are often employees, which means layoffs; fixing a broken company frequently comes at a human cost. However, in the aggregate, this makes the economy more efficient and 1) prevents metastasis of problems that grow so big they bring the whole company down (meaning everybody is looking for a new job and a chunk of grandma's retirement amount disappears) and 2) keeps prices as low as possible, which is good for poorer consumers who are just barely hanging on.
Ulrich
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I think OP is referring to something besides VC, so I'll address the general case of an outside entity investing money in an existing business and using that leverage to make changes. There are a lot of types of entities who do that, and getting into the details of each one is beyond the scope of this post. However, I will focus on the "negative" cases.

First, these outside change agents typically have a thesis that existing leadership has been mismanaging the assets of its shareholders (everything from officers of the company to 401ks amd pensions) in some way. Another way to say that is that they believe the company is, or soon will be, in trouble. This is typically through inefficiency (eg keeping multiple headquarters or outdated operational methodologies), lack of vision (eg erratic or nonexistent strategic moves have left the company wandering), or a structural disadvantage (eg being spread across too many unrelated business lines and performing poorly due to lack of focus).

One thing that should be clear is that these are not easy problems to solve. They involve massive change to bring a company from danger to competitiveness. This is not comfortable for anyone involved, but in many cases the options are to go through traumatic change or go out of business.

Oftentimes companies are broken up and pieces sold to more innovative or effective firms. Positions that dont add value to the enterprise are laid off. Processes are radically changed, and the people responsible for the things that were failing before dont usually enjoy it.

That is the psychology. People who are laid off never think that it had to be that way, and they always think it was shortsighted on the part of the acquirer. People never think their division should have been sold, they worked hard and it hurts to be "discarded" and absorbed. Accepting dramatic process changes is difficult. These are the people you hear from. Sometimes they are right, more often they are not. If they were right, it would be the PE sector failing, because it is subject to the same logic as industry. Plights sell newspapers; explanations of economic rationality do not.

Moving to editorialism now: there is a strong current of "science denial" in our country (and most others) when it comes to business and economics. Good people can fail and good companies can fail. When you don't allow regular forest fires to clear the fuel load, you get massive, uncontrollable fires. Likewise, detritus builds up when you don't allow some level of turmoil in the capital and business sector.

Like democracy in politics, capitalism is the worst economic system, other than all the other systems that have been tried.

As someone who has some experience in the financial side of business, I have a healthy skepticism towards second order+ securitization and certain other forms of financial engineering. I think that skepticism is, in fact, healthy. But at the same time, our financial sector is a critical enabler of growth and our unprecedented standard of living.
oldarmy1
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AG
I'm embarrassed that TexAgs shows up on a google search as the only use of "venture capitalism".

May God help this generation because economic principles sure won't.
Old RV Ag
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oldarmy1 said:

I'm embarrassed that TexAgs shows up on a google search as the only use of "venture capitalism".

May God help this generation because economic principles sure won't.
Ha - Google is fast. Great example of what venture capital can do.
ORAggieFan
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Old RV Ag said:

ORAggieFan said:

I love all these responses when you can't possibly understand what the OP is asking with the incoherent post.
Maybe the rest of us are just carrying on a basic VC discussion. OP started with he was sent from the Politics board which basically states everything he says afterward will be incoherent.


Except much of the discussion and implications aren't around VC. I say this with experience on both the investing side and being an officer in a company that has taken VC investments.
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