I'm interested to hear whether there are some on this board that are pursuing a path that would allow them the financial independence to leave their job much earlier than typical retirement, like in their 40's, perhaps to pursue something else, but without having to rely on your job for income. I've read some of the FIRE stuff online and people are all over the place on their goals and standards, so I'm curious to hear from some on here.

So my questions for anyone looking at this kind of path, who have put a lot of thought into it, and who are likely more financially savvy than myself:

Do you have a specific goal in mind or are you feeling it out as you go?
If you do have a defined goal, what metric(s) are you using to know what that number is?
Do you intend to do anything outside the box for your income stream in your retirement phase or will you likely stick to a traditional investment portfolio?

Any other thoughts are welcome and appreciated. I'm totally new to this board, so my apologies if this type of thing is already discussed often.

I'm with you there. It wouldn't be worth giving up the things we love to do or have. We really haven't done that though, and don't intend to. We live a pretty normal lifestyle, saving but still having nice stuff and taking vacations.

I think that in another 8-10 years we could have built up enough assets to consider it though. I'm curious what sort of assets/expenses ratio most people would consider to be responsible for someone to stop relying on job income at an early age.

I got what you meant. I think the word 'retirement' in the title is a little misleading.

Wife + 2 kids, plan on keeping it that way

Still with a negative net worth (not too far out of residency), but heading the right direction

I enjoy my job as a physician, but am shooting for FI asap. Don't know our current "true" annual budget as we are aggressively paying debt, but this will come to light in the next year or so.

JB said:

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cjsag94 said:

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I can't imagine the stress (of the intensity required to reach this goal) and all the things I'd miss out on in life to accomplish this goal.. but to each his own.

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All the things you would miss out on by working 40+ hrs until your 65?

Like Hype touched on, I think there is a middle ground here. I don't want to work for someone else, spending 1/2 my life at the office, until I'm in my 60s. But I don't want to spend the next 30 years fly fishing every day.

We are currently kinda at this crossroads and are taking a year off starting in June to travel around and find something new.

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I was referring to all the things you miss because after saving 75% of pay, not much left to do anything when you aren't working... Unless you make a lot of money, live low standard of living, have no kids/spouse, etc.

I agree there is a middle ground, which is where I strive for. I spent the first 7-8 years out of college hating my jobs. Hit reset and changed careers in 2003, spent handful of years rebuilding, and now I have the best of both worlds in my late 40s.

I guess that was my point.. what's the motivation? If you hate the grind of your job, waiting 20+ years to escape that is a tough road to hoe. Couldn't you select a much different path if you only need 25% of your pay to live?

cjsag94 said:

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JB said:

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cjsag94 said:

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I can't imagine the stress (of the intensity required to reach this goal) and all the things I'd miss out on in life to accomplish this goal.. but to each his own.

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All the things you would miss out on by working 40+ hrs until your 65?

Like Hype touched on, I think there is a middle ground here. I don't want to work for someone else, spending 1/2 my life at the office, until I'm in my 60s. But I don't want to spend the next 30 years fly fishing every day.

We are currently kinda at this crossroads and are taking a year off starting in June to travel around and find something new.

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I was referring to all the things you miss because after saving 75% of pay, not much left to do anything when you aren't working... Unless you make a lot of money, live low standard of living, have no kids/spouse, etc.

I agree there is a middle ground, which is where I strive for. I spent the first 7-8 years out of college hating my jobs. Hit reset and changed careers in 2003, spent handful of years rebuilding, and now I have the best of both worlds in my late 40s.

I guess that was my point.. what's the motivation? If you hate the grind of your job, waiting 20+ years to escape that is a tough road to hoe. Couldn't you select a much different path if you only need 25% of your pay to live?

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The things I enjoy the most are free. If you don't care about expensive food or expensive trips or clothes or whatever it is you are spending money on then this lifestyle makes sense. If you've got to have next seasons Gucci purse or whatever then this isn't the lifestyle you are looking for.

Different people like different things. Nothing wrong with that.

Ok... That's my question... You don't need much to enjoy free stuff.

This concept is to work for 20 or so years saving very aggressively so you have money to enjoy retirement. No need to do that if what you enjoy is free.

In your case, you could just go ahead and work part time at jobs you enjoy.. rather than become a slave to 40+ hour weeks for 20 or so years?

How did you know it was time? Did you have some benchmark you were working towards or did you just get fed up and call it quits?

FlyFisher09 said:

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How did you know it was time? Did you have some benchmark you were working towards or did you just get fed up and call it quits?

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Are you asking psychologically or financially?

Financial I'd say it's just like any other retirement decision. How much do you need and for how long. Paying for insurance and supplementing for severe reduction in what you will ultimately get from social security is a factor as well.

That's going to be different for everyone.

KerrvilleAg said:

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Saw coworkers cash in their stock options and buy fancy houses/cars....some of those guys are still working today. It takes discipline to not "leverage" and try to get more but you have to decide what's important and how you can live.

Financial advisors will tell you to borrow money etc....but I NEVER feel bad about being debt free and totally self sufficient.

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Good financial advisors often recommend debt to drastically improve net worth, not to leverage up for excess. The fancy houses and cars are usually individual's ego/vanity, not financial advice.

I am 42 and have intentions to not work full time much past 50, if not earlier. I've run a small business for past 10 years (construction company working with federal contracts) that has allowed us to build nice retirement and savings. Also started another small business (residential concrete) that I essentially just keep the books for and that could provide long-term income with it being run by others on the operations side.

I do not see how you retire early working in corporate unless you aggressively save enough to get into another income stream like rental properties that others have mentioned above that then effectively provide you an annuity allowing you to retire when that stream gets comfortable enough.

So income stream like rentals or a wealth-building event like starting a small business and running it successfully (and being lucky sometimes helps).

Outside of these two paths, then its inheriting or winning the lottery, but those are one time events and you did not have the discipline and learning experiences getting there resulting in high-potential of mis-managing or over-valuing how much money you have and what you need to live off of.

Oh, and do not get divorced. Not sure why having kids is so negative. Maybe having 4 of them adds up, but one should be tolerated. If you want to retire early, then need to be going to public schools through college.

I've thought about it and rejected it. If anything it would be get in a position financially to retire early and then work to turn a hobby into a part or full time job.

cjsag94 said:

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Ok... That's my question... You don't need much to enjoy free stuff.

This concept is to work for 20 or so years saving very aggressively so you have money to enjoy retirement. No need to do that if what you enjoy is free.

In your case, you could just go ahead and work part time at jobs you enjoy.. rather than become a slave to 40+ hour weeks for 20 or so years?

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So you become a slave to a part time job and live paycheck to paycheck for your whole life? How exactly do you propose achieving financial independence in that scenario? I can make more in 5 years than I would in a lifetime of part time work I enjoy. You are ignoring the benefits that come from the FI part.

gig em 02 said:

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cjsag94 said:

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Ok... That's my question... You don't need much to enjoy free stuff.

This concept is to work for 20 or so years saving very aggressively so you have money to enjoy retirement. No need to do that if what you enjoy is free.

In your case, you could just go ahead and work part time at jobs you enjoy.. rather than become a slave to 40+ hour weeks for 20 or so years?

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So you become a slave to a part time job and live paycheck to paycheck for your whole life? How exactly do you propose achieving financial independence in that scenario? I can make more in 5 years than I would in a lifetime of part time work I enjoy. You are ignoring the benefits that come from the FI part.

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I'm not ignoring anything. I've asked numerous times with no answer what is motivating people to follow a long term plan with the goal of retiring in your 40s. I'm not asking why someone would want to be FI so that they could, I'm just asking why one would intentionally make all of life's sacrifices over 20 years to get there (I'm assuming this isn't someone who makes a ton of money that plans to live like an average person).

Then there was the response that what is loved in life is free. So yes, to me in that scenario, retire now and work just enough each year or so to cover basic expenses. Most early retirees get bored unless they do as others have suggested which is move on to running a business or doing something else. Which OP said he would do.

So, if one's motivation is you hate your job so much that you are trying to escape it. . Then I can't imagine doing that for 20 years.

If it's that your job is fine... But your motivation is that you yearn to have nothing you have to do to make money and just live life to it's fullest every day, then I guess this FIRE deal is the approach to take.

But if it's that you don't need money to be happy, then retire today. It's pretty easy for most people to earn enough each year to meet basic living needs.

Bottom line, this is an intriguing discussion to me. I feel most have answered with the notion they were successful, looked up in their late 40s with enough saved, and decided to redirect. But OP started the thread to discuss devising a long term plan to retire extremely early. I've simply taken the position that I don't understand what would motivate someone to take on that endeavor and believe knowing the motivation would be interesting to understand.

I'm extremely goal oriented and a task list focused person. Eagle Scout when I turned 14, finished A&M in 3 years, always completed baseball card sets, etc. I'm extremely driven to complete whatever needs completing/finishing.

If $5 million is the number I need to be free to do what I want (work or not), I'm going to get there as fast as I can. Look, it's not always a positive quality in life (I suck at exercising in moderation and wish I didn't. If I'm going to run, I'm training for a marathon then an ultra. Why can't I just enjoy a 30 minute run 3-4x per week? IDK but I can't) but it is who I am.

Yes this is more or less the idea. Turning a hobby into an income generator would be awesome, but even having the freedom to pursue something I find more rewarding than my corporate path would be worthwhile I think.

FlyFisher09 said:

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Yes this is more or less the idea. Turning a hobby into an income generator would be awesome, but even having the freedom to pursue something I find more rewarding than my corporate path would be worthwhile I think.

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So, let me ask... How much will you live on vs how much will you save during this process?

Let's say you answer you earn $150... Live on 50, save 100. Could you simply start your"hobby for a living" now and earn 50k? I know it's not exactly the same, but if your corporate path isn't rewarding, is sitting there next 15 years in that worthwhile?

Sock... Congrats on your success and ambition is definitely a double edged sword! I'd say your situation is more the what to do next with your resources as opposed to how can I amass the resources so I can then choose what to do.

I think that's my challenge with this concept. Could be wrong, but I don't read these inquiries as people who have a ton of excess and the answer was to just inform of the 3-4% withdrawal rate equation. If that is all that was being asked.. I'd agree that's a sound guideline.

cjsag94 said:

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FlyFisher09 said:

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Yes this is more or less the idea. Turning a hobby into an income generator would be awesome, but even having the freedom to pursue something I find more rewarding than my corporate path would be worthwhile I think.

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So, let me ask... How much will you live on vs how much will you save during this process?

Let's say you answer you earn $150... Live on 50, save 100. Could you simply start your"hobby for a living" now and earn 50k? I know it's not exactly the same, but if your corporate path isn't rewarding, is sitting there next 15 years in that worthwhile?

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I'll answer this since those numbers are close enough to my situation. Working a "more enjoyable" job just to cover my living expenses wouldn't make sense because I'd essentially be forcing myself to work to survive as long as I live and never achieve financial independence or even be able to take extended amounts of time off.
Meanwhile the high ratio of income that I'm saving is compounding over the years to an exponentially larger stash that will at some point be able to sustain however I want to live indefinitely, possibly without having to withdraw much of the principle. The amount luxury I want to live my extended retired years on will determine how long I want to keep working.

I work in med device engineering and by no means enjoy my job but can't imagine really enjoying any type of work that much. It has enough perks and conveniences to where I don't despise it and I've created a living situation where my weekends are probably more enjoyable than 90% of the single population without having to blow much money on it. I live in a beach house in Newport Beach but share it with good friend from grad school on a similar track (but a bit higher up in pharm). I'm smart with all my spending/expenses (could ref Mr. Money Mustache principles) and set up my living economically efficiently enough to not cost much more than the average person in a much lower cost of living area. Entertainment wise I've managed to game the social scene of OC enough to where I'm able to I'm able to do a crazy amount of fun things constantly for very little spend (clubs/tables/lavish mansion/penthouse parties/boats etc) so on the weekends frequently getting to live on the level of all the "FIRE'd" playboys which composed highly of trust fund kids, young company owners/sellers, dealers, etc that just burn through money on fun all the time.

mid 2018 the startup I worked for was bought out and I took a very generous severance(a portion of which was put towards maxing retirement funds) and an entire year off of work (half-assedly searching for my next job so not totally vacationing, but still living on the beach, and mainly just partying 4-5 nights a week), and when I went back to work a few months ago, with all my investments remaining in aggressive funds and with performance of the market, my net worth had actually risen ~$80K in the full year away from work, took advantage of some benifits and I had cut spending in that time but not by a lot, and since returning to work found it comfortable to not need to raise it by much yet. My older SUV also died in that time and I came out with a Jaguar(just a bit of the company stock payout)

well more detail than I planned to go into, but suppose this is just to put out another type of living situation out there, maybe to illustrate that you can live in an "expensive" area and have lots of fun while still building towards FIRE at a good rate, though the main key is staying single (both for the fun and economical aspects) but that's my heavy foreseeable preference anyways. But I managed into a situation where I'm willing to put up with work and still enjoy life they way many don't ever get to so I'm grateful for that and trying to make the most of it.

Although if it were feasible with my career track I'd be willing to take a year of reduced earnings in exchange for getting to travel and live in exotic places, can't really put a value on getting to do that while you're still young (and again, single) enough to fully enjoy it

cjsag94 said:

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gig em 02 said:

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cjsag94 said:

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Ok... That's my question... You don't need much to enjoy free stuff.

This concept is to work for 20 or so years saving very aggressively so you have money to enjoy retirement. No need to do that if what you enjoy is free.

In your case, you could just go ahead and work part time at jobs you enjoy.. rather than become a slave to 40+ hour weeks for 20 or so years?

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So you become a slave to a part time job and live paycheck to paycheck for your whole life? How exactly do you propose achieving financial independence in that scenario? I can make more in 5 years than I would in a lifetime of part time work I enjoy. You are ignoring the benefits that come from the FI part.

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I'm not ignoring anything. I've asked numerous times with no answer what is motivating people to follow a long term plan with the goal of retiring in your 40s. I'm not asking why someone would want to be FI so that they could, I'm just asking why one would intentionally make all of life's sacrifices over 20 years to get there (I'm assuming this isn't someone who makes a ton of money that plans to live like an average person).

Then there was the response that what is loved in life is free. So yes, to me in that scenario, retire now and work just enough each year or so to cover basic expenses. Most early retirees get bored unless they do as others have suggested which is move on to running a business or doing something else. Which OP said he would do.

So, if one's motivation is you hate your job so much that you are trying to escape it. . Then I can't imagine doing that for 20 years.

If it's that your job is fine... But your motivation is that you yearn to have nothing you have to do to make money and just live life to it's fullest every day, then I guess this FIRE deal is the approach to take.

But if it's that you don't need money to be happy, then retire today. It's pretty easy for most people to earn enough each year to meet basic living needs.

Bottom line, this is an intriguing discussion to me. I feel most have answered with the notion they were successful, looked up in their late 40s with enough saved, and decided to redirect. But OP started the thread to discuss devising a long term plan to retire extremely early. I've simply taken the position that I don't understand what would motivate someone to take on that endeavor and believe knowing the motivation would be interesting to understand.

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You must be an engineer.

The purpose is not to live paycheck to paycheck like a ski bum. I'm not sure why you keep on demanding people live paycheck to paycheck. Good luck figuring out that people aren't asking for advice on how to live paycheck to paycheck for a reason.

I don't think I will ever stop working altogether but the thought of ratcheting down my spend and coasting for the back half of life is interesting. Prob doesn't fit my personality but fun to hear stories form you all!