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For Attorneys - what is the bottom rung?

5,198 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by localag88
Geriatric Punk
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AG
Apart from doc review, is the worst attorney job? Consider things such as stress, fulfillment, pay, upward mobility, and any other factors you wish. Curious to see what others think.
Life's an endless party, not a pushcart.
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
Family law usually doesn't pay that richly, you get to see decent people at their worst (and a lot of indecent people too with kids), child support deadbeats, substance abusers, physical abusers, cheaters, petty fights over blenders and pets, kids caught in the middle, etc. you couldn't pay me to go back.
Duncan Idaho
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Yeah not a lawyer but I couldn't imagine doing middle/lower income family law.
94chem
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Veterinary malpractice?

Court-appointed defense?
Stive
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AG
I know a guy that was working the swing shift for a firm in Dallas that bonds people out that have been picked up on outstanding warrants (unpaid traffic tickets and such). I can't remember how the rules worked but I think it was warrants that have been issued for misdemeanor, failures to appear, etc, your family can call these guys, they'll go to the jail and post bond for you, and promise to appear on your behalf.

It was nickel and dime work, you spent the entire shift driving around from jail to jail in the metroplex (basically on call for 8 hours), bonding out guys, only to appear on their behalf weeks or months down the road.

Had to be an attorney to do it for some reason.

To hear him tell it, it SUCKED!
John Francis Donaghy
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Probably court appointed defense or family law.

Both are still better than doc review.
Ragoo
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AG
Basically John Turturro's character in The Night Of.
Stive
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AG
Ragoo said:

Basically John Turturro's character in The Night Of.

He's an ambulance chaser.


This firm (it's in Dallas) gets called by the relatives of the incarcerated to go handle this for them. They're essentially bail bondsmen that are attorneys. I'll get a better description of the reasonings/setup tomorrow from the guy and spell it out better.

Let's just say that he's in family law now and HAPPY to be there compared to that crap.
Furlock Bones
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AG
you're telling me that not all law offices are like Boston Legal?


my wife and i were watching Boston Legal the other day musing about how many teenagers/college students watched that show and thought being a lawyer is bad ass. i want to be just like them. lol
Bocephus
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AG
I thought family law attorneys killed it? Charge tens of thousands to create parameters that can only be enforced by going back to court and charging even more fees.
TX AG 88
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Furlock Bones said:

you're telling me that not all law offices are like Boston Legal?


my wife and i were watching Boston Legal the other day musing about how many teenagers/college students watched that show and thought being a lawyer is bad ass. i want to be just like them. lol


Denny Crane!
Keeper of The Spirits
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AG
Doc Review is nice if you want flexibility, paid by the hour, can many times work from wherever, work as many or few hours as you want. Give me that over criminal or family for sure
Old RV Ag
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I always thought on the surface patent attorney sounded interesting but after talking to a couple it turns out you need to be an introvert book worm. Alone reading mounds of documents and looking for similar items already patented. Now, the money in some cases is good, it sounded like watching paint dry.

Edit: am talking about those who file the patents. Now, patent infringement lawsuit work could be very different.
Old RV Ag
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Bocephus said:

I thought family law attorneys killed it? Charge tens of thousands to create parameters that can only be enforced by going back to court and charging even more fees.
Not only family law. Had a part of small piece of land I inherited which was undivided interest. Others in another family (land was bought between my grandfather and his business partner) wanted to divide the land but that was problematic. Attorneys got involved and the fees were getting to more than the land was worth. Turned out the two attorneys were working together to keep stirring the fire to keep the different families feuding to rack up more fees. I didn't pick the lawyer on our side, it was a cousin and as the land isn't really a big piece I let it be the one he picked.
bradtheag
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AG
Just like any type of practice, there a 50k a year family lawyers and 500k+ a year family lawyers. It depends on skill, reputation, location, etc.
TXTransplant
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Old RV Ag said:

I always thought on the surface patent attorney sounded interesting but after talking to a couple it turns out you need to be an introvert book worm. Alone reading mounds of documents and looking for similar items already patented. Now, the money in some cases is good, it sounded like watching paint dry.

Edit: am talking about those who file the patents. Now, patent infringement lawsuit work could be very different.


That's why a lot of patent attorneys move into litigation and leave patent prep and prosecution to those with technical degrees who are registered patent agents!

In house (with a company) is a lot more interesting than private practice because you get to see the business side of IP, to.
O'Doyle Rules
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AG
Never heard of a fun attorney job . Maybe the fbi but that is quite tarnished these days depending on who you ask.
cowenlaw
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Being an attorney can be a lot of fun. I love my practice.
Callate Donnie
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I've done criminal, family, and insurance defense. Here are my thoughts on each:

Family is the worst in terms of absorbing people's angst.

Insurance defense is worst in terms of fulfillment and hours (plus, the billable hour is its own brand of yuck). Quality of your work takes a backseat to how many hours you bill. In most cases, your client ends up writing checks to con artists aided by shysters. Decisions are all about the bottom line. Many times it is simply cheaper to write the check than pay to defend the case.

Criminal is the worst in overall defeating your faith in the "justice system." You hit the occasional home run and that keeps you going. You will likely see your client get railroaded more than vindicated. At the end of the day, you do your best to ensure Due Process and that is as good as you can do. Heaven forbid you have an innocent client. Those cases can take years off your life.

I guess it all depends on what you are built/passionate for.
one MEEN Ag
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AG
Furlock Bones said:

you're telling me that not all law offices are like Boston Legal?


my wife and i were watching Boston Legal the other day musing about how many teenagers/college students watched that show and thought being a lawyer is bad ass. i want to be just like them. lol
I believe most millennials believe law offices are more like Suits. Where Meghan Markle does legal work and then gets to become a princess.
Geriatric Punk
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AG
Ok, so what is the "top rung?"

I've always heard in-house is great work if you can get it because of the balance of pay and stress level.

Personally, I feel like it would a combination of the following:

1. Being a solo, or at least partner (freedom);
2. Having steady work (financial stability);
3. Enjoying the city where you work; and,
4. Suited for your personality (dislike confrontation, then something other than litigation, etc).

Life's an endless party, not a pushcart.
John Francis Donaghy
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Geriatric Punk said:

Ok, so what is the "top rung?"

I've always heard in-house is great work if you can get it because of the balance of pay and stress level.

Personally, I feel like it would a combination of the following:

1. Being a solo, or at least partner (freedom);
2. Having steady work (financial stability);
3. Enjoying the city where you work; and,
4. Suited for your personality (dislike confrontation, then something other than litigation, etc).




Rainmaker.
nonameag99
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I always thought this Stacy had a pretty amazing story

He invented some trust for estate planning and went from senior partner at Baker Botts to Managing Director of the Goldman Sachs Houston office

Icing on the cake is that his parent's owned camp mystic

I met his son a few times

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1457642.html



The Aggie number specified has already been linked with another TexAgs account.
TxLawDawg
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AG
Geriatric Punk said:

Ok, so what is the "top rung?"

I've always heard in-house is great work if you can get it because of the balance of pay and stress level.

Personally, I feel like it would a combination of the following:

1. Being a solo, or at least partner (freedom);
2. Having steady work (financial stability);
3. Enjoying the city where you work; and,
4. Suited for your personality (dislike confrontation, then something other than litigation, etc).




I think you're pretty close to right. It's all about balancing what you're good at with what makes you happy.

I spent a lot of time searching. Worked for a few mid-sized firms early in my career and didn't really like it.

Opened a solo practice which I enjoyed, but I hated the city where I was located and although I did ok financially, it wasn't at a level I was happy with.

Got a great in-house gig at a large O&G services company. The legal department was ~15 lawyers. I really enjoyed it, but the "balanced hours" is generally a myth. I still worked a ton of hours and traveled a lot. Pay was good.

Then I became General Counsel of a smaller family owned company in a small town. I loved the small town aspect, the company, the owners, and the job, but I was a legal department of one. TONS of hours. Pay was ok, but in my opinion not commensurate with the hours and responsibility.

Last year I left and opened another solo practice. Still in the same small town. Still GC for that company, just externally. My practice has grown to almost more than I can handle. I still work more hours than I would like, but otherwise I think I've finally found my balance. Financially it's much better with potential for much more. I love the town. I pick my work/clients. Even though I'm in a small town I limit my work to my preferred three practice areas. I own my office, and have complete freedom to do what I want

By the way, if any of you other lawyers are still reading and want a small town job, PM me. I need to hire another lawyer.
Bocephus
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AG
Can you mention what town?
TxLawDawg
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I'd rather not publicly because anyone could figure out pretty quickly who I am and who my clients are.

If you'll PM me I'll be glad to tell you.
MAS444
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I've been solo for 17 years after 4 years at a mid sized firm here in Houston. Obviously there's lots of positives to being your own boss, autonomy, etc. But it's also very stressful and, simply put, no one gives me a paycheck every other week (or health insurance, retirement benefits, etc). It requires a lot of hard work. And lots of work I wouldn't have to do if I worked for someone else (payroll, accounting, marketing, management, HR, etc...). The positives outweigh the negatives for me, though.

SW AG80
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AG
This is an interesting topic. I am in my 37th year of practicing law and will retire at the end of next year. What I have loved about being a solo practitioner is that I could pick where I wanted to live. In my early 30s I was making way more $$$ than a person of that age should. I was living in a small town in west Texas. For you young lawyers, the oil field is a great place to practice law and make money. I did only civil work but had enough PI work to hit some big licks. Also made some good money on big divorces but hated the pots and pan divorces.

The only big mistake I made was moving to a somewhat larger town to go into practice with a guy I went to law school with. He was a damn crooked and I realized that about 60 days into our partnership. Went back out on my own fairly quickly but became disillusioned with the practice of law because of rambo tactics. Large companies and insurance companies began bringing in Dallas and Houston firms instead of using west Texas firms.

Eventually ran for DA as I had always wanted to do that. Won an election I should not have won, thanks to a bunch of local Aggies. Held that office for several terms until my wife needed to come back closer to her parents who were getting older and needed help.

For ones who want a steady paycheck with benefits, I have learned that a city attorneys' office, even in smaller cities like Abilene, San Angelo and Midland, have really good pay. THE city attorney makes more than the DA with not near the stress of trying murder cases and dealing with the media.

localag88
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To me it looked like the attys working the AG-child support enforcement roadshows were in a living hell. I guess it's steady pay and you do what you've got to do to pay your bills, but damn that looks depressing
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