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Credit Card Churning

5,335 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by 62strat
irish pete ag06
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I'm not a hardcore churner, but I do enjoy getting one of the bonuses per year.

Cards I've used in the past:

  • Chase Sapphire Preferred (me and my wife)
  • Capital One Venture (just me right now)
  • Southwest Personal and Business card to get Companion Pass (just me)

My plans are to switch my wife to the Capital One card soon and get that $500 bonus (I like this card as my daily spender).

I'm also eye balling the Chase Ink Business card that has an $800 bonus.

The Savor card with the $500 bonus and 4% back on dining is intriguing also.
IrishTxAggie
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AMEX Gold is a good one
Joe Exotic
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Venture is what I use every day. Got the Citi AA Aviator Red and Citi AA Platinum for a total of 110,000 miles this year.
Diggity
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irish pete ag06 said:

The Savor card with the $500 bonus and 4% back on dining is intriguing also.


I'm going to try this one out. I get 4.5% for restaurants and bars with the Sapphire Reserve but I like the idea of not being locked into using the rewards for travel.

No fee and sign up bonus makes it risk free.
irish pete ag06
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Diggity said:

irish pete ag06 said:

The Savor card with the $500 bonus and 4% back on dining is intriguing also.


I'm going to try this one out. I get 4.5% for restaurants and bars with the Sapphire Reserve but I like the idea of not being locked into using the rewards for travel.

No fee and sign up bonus makes it risk free.


The new savor card has a $95 annual fee but it's waived the first year.
MemphisAg1
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I guess I'm a dinosaur. I've had the same Mastercard for 30 years and Discover for 20 years.
JSKolache
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Amazon Prime Visa
GarlandAg2012
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Does anyone here do manufactured spending? Are there still viable strategies for this that result in lower than rewards levels of fees?
Diggity
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Correct. Thanks for clarifying
Jdrexgman
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GarlandAg2012 said:

Does anyone here do manufactured spending? Are there still viable strategies for this that result in lower than rewards levels of fees?


What is manufactured spending?
Business Time
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Buy cash equivalents, collect credit card rewards, use cash equivalents to pay off credit card. Rinse and repeat.
Joe Exotic
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MemphisAg1 said:

I guess I'm a dinosaur. I've had the same Mastercard for 30 years and Discover for 20 years.


So you even get worthwhile points for those?
MemphisAg1
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Bo Darville said:

MemphisAg1 said:

I guess I'm a dinosaur. I've had the same Mastercard for 30 years and Discover for 20 years.


So you even get worthwhile points for those?
Yep
62strat
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MemphisAg1 said:

I guess I'm a dinosaur. I've had the same Mastercard for 30 years and Discover for 20 years.
You're missing out.

I starting signing up just in the last 3 years; since then I've flown free several times on SW, and about to book a week in Hawaii at Marriott all on points, and will fly there free on united as well. Flying the family to FL next summer on SW points. Just got back from cancun with the wife, on frontier points going and SW coming back.

I'm all about these sign up bonuses. I amassed all these points just in a few years. I've maybe spent $400 on cc fees in that time. I find the key is to cancel a month before the second year charge, so you are only paying 1 year, but you get the bonus again. Cuts your fees basically in half.

Next year I'm going to try for the companion pass by doing personal/business combo.

I'm pissed I didn't sign up while on the plane just last week. it was personal card for 50k offer.
if I had done that, hit the spend in Jan, get the 50k, then sign up for business in dec, hit that in Feb, get the 60k, I'd be at companion on bonuses alone.

Now the personal is only 40k, so I have a $10k deficit to make up which can take several months.
YouBet
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I don't really do it because I don't have the desire to keep up with all of it. I have co-workers who have gone so far down this rabbit hole they actually have tiny paper notes taped to each cc telling them the type of transaction to use each card for.

No thanks.

I did recently switch to the sapphire card because it was better than my old card
Diggity
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people going nuts for "special edition" Rose Gold Amex

https://www.businessinsider.com/amex-rose-gold-card-popularity-cause-delay-2018-10
irish pete ag06
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YouBet said:

I don't really do it because I don't have the desire to keep up with all of it. I have co-workers who have gone so far down this rabbit hole they actually have tiny paper notes taped to each cc telling them the type of transaction to use each card for.

No thanks.

I did recently switch to the sapphire card because it was better than my old card


Yeah I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

I typically looks for big bonuses and use a decent card for my everyday spender.
Diggity
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My wife would probably have to do that, but I don't give her too much grief.

I don't feel like it takes too much thought for me.

Bars/Restaurants: Chase Sapphire
Groceries/Gas: Amex Cash Preferred
Everything Else: Chase Freedom Unlimited
My Amazon account is tied to the Amazon Chase card.
62strat
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YouBet said:

I don't really do it because I don't have the desire to keep up with all of it. I have co-workers who have gone so far down this rabbit hole they actually have tiny paper notes taped to each cc telling them the type of transaction to use each card for.

That isn't what churning is, in my opinion anyway. That is maybe 'point maximization'.. but not churning.

Churning is simply signing up for a card to get a sign up bonus, then cancelling it at some point in order to sign up again when you can get the bonus again (which seems to be 2 years for all these cards)

I'm not getting cards for 2x points in this category, 3x on this, 4x on this, etc etc.. which I agree, would take a lot of work to keep up with.

So.. for example, in my case;
I signed up for SW card in Sept. 2016, got 50k bonus + 5k for 2nd user.
In April 2017 I signed up for Marriott, got 100k bonus + 10k 2nd user. It has a free annual night at up to 35k hotel, so that alone negates the $99 fee.
In July of this year, I signed up for United with 50k bonus (also came with tsa precheck reimbursement, two club passes, and $100 credit on first bill, negating the $99 annual fee).

For the most part, I was using SW card, wife used marriott card... didn't matter what it was for.

Now, august of this year, I canceled SW card, because it's been two years. I cancel a week before the fee hits (it does it on your 13th billing cycle), so I only paid 1 fee for 2 years of use and bonus. I will sign up for it again soon. I'm now using united card, wife still using marriott card.

In April of next year, Marriott will be on two years, so I'll cancel it in March (avoiding the 2nd fee), then sign up for it again a month or two later.

etc. etc.

I have a gap until United bonus is available again (July 2020), so I'll probably throw a hilton card in the mix. I also plan to do SW business card, so next year I can shoot for companion pass. The big hurdle to all this is the 5/24 sign up rule.. Chase won't approve you if you have more than 5 new cards in last 24 months. So you have to get on a 6 month interval if you want to maximize your sign ups. On a 6 month interval, you can have 4 cards going, then repeat cycle.

Also during this year, I signed up for the Frontier card, got 40k miles, and used it to go to cancun. I canceled the card within 6 months. It was a $69 fee, so basically two flights to cancun for $69 plus international flight fees. I still had points left, and was able to get exit row seats and add a carry on. I don't plan to do it again, as I don't plan to use frontier much (their flights are so cheap anyway), and I'd rather have united, SW, marriott and another hotel.

When it comes to spending categories and 2x,3x etc points like your friend keeps up with; in the end you can throw that out the window and just worry about the 50k, 60k, 100k sign up bonuses. So I could give a rats butt about 2x points in whatever categories. That is too much effort as you pointed out.

When I sign up for Marriott again next summer, I'll have gotten 220k points on sign up + addtl user. Then figure we spend $15k a year on it, so $30k in 2 years, that is another 60k points (Marriott is 2x points for everything), total of 280k points. That is a week in top level hotel. (you get 5th night free when booking with points, so a week only uses 6 nights worth).

Combine this with a spouse doing it, and literally every year you have enough points for at least a few free flights and several nights in a nice hotel. If you do some smart traveling (like not trying to use points on flights over xmas week), the points go even further.

62strat
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To add to the distinction; churning implies you are going through the cards.. opening, closing, reopening, etc.

Using different cards for different point categories doesn't require you to open, close and reopen cards. You can simply have 6 cards all remain open indefinitely, and use whichever one in order to maximize points. That is completely different than churning, and indeed takes a bit of work to keep up with.


Diggity
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I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?
YouBet
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62strat said:

To add to the distinction; churning implies you are going through the cards.. opening, closing, reopening, etc.

Using different cards for different point categories doesn't require you to open, close and reopen cards. You can simply have 6 cards all remain open indefinitely, and use whichever one in order to maximize points. That is completely different than churning, and indeed takes a bit of work to keep up with.




You aware of the rule on opening CCs? Can't remember what the number is but you might be getting close to hitting it. Just FYI.
Diggity
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It's mainly a Chase rule but Capital One has something similar:

Quote:

The gist of the 5/24 rule is this: If you have opened 5 or more new credit cards in the past 24 months (from any issuing bank), you will not be approved for a new credit card from Chase. ... The number of credit cards opened in the last 24 months is a rolling count.
62strat
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Diggity said:

I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?
They are simply two different techniques, and can be mutually exclusive techniques. My point to that poster is, churning has nothing to do with spending categories like he inferred.

Someone, with say a lower income who can't hit these sign up bonus spends, (some are $5k in 3 months), can still navigate the cards/categories to maximize points, and so may choose to only use that technique.

Me personally, I don't want to put that much effort into it (and my cell phone case/wallet only carries two cards), plus most categories are not ones in which I spend a lot. I often see dining and travel as higher points, and we do neither of much. (If we travel, it's typically using points).

Getting 3x on gas or restaurants compared to 1x when we only spend $1500 on gas or restaurants a year is negligible when you compare it to a 100k sign up bonus.




Diggity
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62strat said:

Diggity said:

I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?


Someone, with say a lower income who can't hit these sign up bonus spends, (some are $5k in 3 months), can still navigate the cards/categories to maximize points, and so may choose to only use that technique.


Check out the churning subreddit. There's a whole community of broke dicks who can't rub two nickels together getting these promos through manufacturered spend.

Also, if you're not eating out a lot, I assume you spend quite a bit on groceries, so there's no reason not to save $500 or so a year with a cash back card that favors groceries.
62strat
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YouBet said:

62strat said:

To add to the distinction; churning implies you are going through the cards.. opening, closing, reopening, etc.

Using different cards for different point categories doesn't require you to open, close and reopen cards. You can simply have 6 cards all remain open indefinitely, and use whichever one in order to maximize points. That is completely different than churning, and indeed takes a bit of work to keep up with.




You aware of the rule on opening CCs? Can't remember what the number is but you might be getting close to hitting it. Just FYI.
yes.. I know it's a long post, but I mentioned it in there.

62strat said:


I have a gap until United bonus is available again (July 2020), so I'll probably throw a hilton card in the mix. I also plan to do SW business card, so next year I can shoot for companion pass. The big hurdle to all this is the 5/24 sign up rule.. Chase won't approve you if you have more than 5 new cards in last 24 months. So you have to get on a 6 month interval if you want to maximize your sign ups. On a 6 month interval, you can have 4 cards going, then repeat cycle.



62strat
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Diggity said:

62strat said:

Diggity said:

I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?


Someone, with say a lower income who can't hit these sign up bonus spends, (some are $5k in 3 months), can still navigate the cards/categories to maximize points, and so may choose to only use that technique.


Check out the churning subreddit. There's a whole community of broke dicks who can't rub two nickels together getting these promos through manufacturered spend.

Also, if you're not eating out a lot, I assume you spend quite a bit on groceries, so there's no reason not to save $500 or so a year with a cash back card that favors groceries.
I've looked at a few websites on the manufactured spending.. personally, the most I've seen is the $5k/3month requirement, and we can hit that relatively easily, so haven't had a need to investigate further. But believe me, if I could figure out how to get my daycare and mortgage paid on a credit card with no fees, I would in a heartbeat. That's $50k a year.

As far as groceries, literally for the first time yesterday I saw a card that had I think 4x on restaurants and groceries, and it caught my attention. I had never seen that category before, only restaurants; although admittedly I don't pay too close attention to them.
irish pete ag06
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62strat said:

Diggity said:

62strat said:

Diggity said:

I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?


Someone, with say a lower income who can't hit these sign up bonus spends, (some are $5k in 3 months), can still navigate the cards/categories to maximize points, and so may choose to only use that technique.


Check out the churning subreddit. There's a whole community of broke dicks who can't rub two nickels together getting these promos through manufacturered spend.

Also, if you're not eating out a lot, I assume you spend quite a bit on groceries, so there's no reason not to save $500 or so a year with a cash back card that favors groceries.
I've looked at a few websites on the manufactured spending.. personally, the most I've seen is the $5k/3month requirement, and we can hit that relatively easily, so haven't had a need to investigate further. But believe me, if I could figure out how to get my daycare and mortgage paid on a credit card with no fees, I would in a heartbeat. That's $50k a year.

As far as groceries, literally for the first time yesterday I saw a card that had I think 4x on restaurants and groceries, and it caught my attention. I had never seen that category before, only restaurants; although admittedly I don't pay too close attention to them.
Heavens to Betsy yes... If you figure that out please shoot me a PM.
Diggity
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I like the AmEx Cash Preferred.

  • 6% (up to $6K/year) for groceries.
  • 3% on gas.
  • 3% for department stores (although I don't see this on the site anymore)

www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/card/blue-cash-preferred/

That 4% AmEx you pointed out would be interesting if I routinely went over $6K on groceries, but I would rather have cash back than rewards points, since they don't transfer well in Houston.
62strat
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Diggity said:

I like the AmEx Cash Preferred.

  • 6% (up to $6K/year) for groceries.

You know I totally spaced out and forgot.. we use target red card for probably 80% of our grocery shopping. It's 5% off, right at the register. Other 20% of the time we go to soopers or walmart, so that doesn't amount to much, maybe $1500 a year, so that is negligible to me.
Diggity
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Your Target's must have better grocery selections in Colorado.
62strat
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I find the retrofitted targets lack quite a bit, even in Texas. In our town there was a new build super target, and they moved out of the old smaller location, so it's good to go 80-90% of the time. Produce can lack a bit, so if we have a specific or big produce run we'll hit up sprouts, conveniently next to the liquor super store.

Same with meat. If I need a good steak or seafood, I'll go elsewhere, but they have everything we need for pantry and frozen stuff.
Tecolote
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irish pete ag06 said:

62strat said:

Diggity said:

62strat said:

Diggity said:

I think most people who churn also keep a pretty close eye on maximizing points and cash back.

Why wouldn't you?


Someone, with say a lower income who can't hit these sign up bonus spends, (some are $5k in 3 months), can still navigate the cards/categories to maximize points, and so may choose to only use that technique.


Check out the churning subreddit. There's a whole community of broke dicks who can't rub two nickels together getting these promos through manufacturered spend.

Also, if you're not eating out a lot, I assume you spend quite a bit on groceries, so there's no reason not to save $500 or so a year with a cash back card that favors groceries.
I've looked at a few websites on the manufactured spending.. personally, the most I've seen is the $5k/3month requirement, and we can hit that relatively easily, so haven't had a need to investigate further. But believe me, if I could figure out how to get my daycare and mortgage paid on a credit card with no fees, I would in a heartbeat. That's $50k a year.

As far as groceries, literally for the first time yesterday I saw a card that had I think 4x on restaurants and groceries, and it caught my attention. I had never seen that category before, only restaurants; although admittedly I don't pay too close attention to them.
Heavens to Betsy yes... If you figure that out please shoot me a PM.
Had a friend who did child support payments creatively. Some was cash but the mom was willing to accept gift cards for Whole Foods, Amazon, etc. for a large majority of it. Since the cards are used for goods and not seen as cash, they register on the credit cards are purchases - thus accruing miles/points.
ryanhnc10
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Can someone describe if there are any negative effects on your credit by cancelling these credit cards as you 'churn'.
IrishTxAggie
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Minuscule and very short term. Don't churn if you're planning to buy a house In the next six months.
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