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Corporate culture vs salary

6,219 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by FrioAg 00
Pepper Brooks
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I'd like some feedback from the board. I'm going to cross post it to the jobs board too.

In your opinion, at what point does an increase in pay/opportunity become overshadowed by a less enjoyable corporate culture/environment?

I have been with my employer for 7 years and my experience has been great. They treat their people well, have good benefits, work/life flexibility, etc. That said, I have been offered a job at a competitor for 25-30% more pay, similar benefits(better 401k match), more responsibility, and the opportunity to learn a new skill which I can't get in my current role. I'd be much more marketable after mastering said skill. The downside is that some deparments of the company can be difficult to work in and you generally don't hear about people leaving and saying "man, I really enjoyed that experience".

I'm leaning towards taking the job/pay bump and learning what I can. I can always leave down the road if it's a bad fit. What would you do if you were in a similar situation?
Burdizzo
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Coming from someone approaching 50 and on my third job, I say never pass up the opportunity to grow your skill set. The environment may be tough. You will have to decide your own tolerance for it, but don't let your skills get stale. The older you get the more you have to work to keep them sharp.
Petrino1
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A 25-30% increase is a pretty big jump in pay, also have to factor in the better 401k match. Offers like this wont come around very often in your career. How long would it take you to get that 25-30% increase at your current employer? My guess is probably 5-7 years.

I'd take the newoffer, dont burn any bridges on the way out, exit as smoothly as possible and offer to help your current employer with the transition. If your current employer values you, then you can always go back if the new job doesn't work out. Plus you will get an increase in pay going back!
Drawkcab
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I've been thinking about starting almost this exact same thread with the exception that I'm not 100% certain the new job would be less enjoyable, just that my current job is very much so.
Pepper Brooks
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This is generally how I'm processing it.

Draw- yeah I've been going back and forth for the last day or so and a friend suggested that I post it.
IrishTxAggie
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I'd say take the position and leave on good terms. Try to make the transition as smooth as possible. If it's a competition you're going to, prepare to be walked out immediately. It's nothing against you and it's not an anger or slight at you, its protocol in most corporations due to proprietary information.

This sounds like an opportunity that will increase your professional marketability and aspirations. No wise manager(s) would fault you for taking this opportunity.
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Pepper Brooks
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Married, no kids(2 years out), will shorten commute by about 10 min each way after they move into their new office in 6 months. I expect to have my travel double but we can probably deal with it for the time being. The group id be joining is less than a year old and they are trying to grow their book of business dramatically these first few years which will require me to be visible with our distributors more than usual. This also presents opportunity for quick advancement if we hit our metrics.

The more I talk the more I think culture be damned.
BO297
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Have you asked your company to match the raise?
Stymied
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Don't do that... if the money matters that much, just leave. Asking for a match will not end well long term.
IrishTxAggie
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AeroAg2003 said:

Don't do that... if the money matters that much, just leave. Asking for a match will not end well long term.


This. Made the mistake once. Never again.
Pepper Brooks
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Yeah, I'm not comfortable holding my employer hostage like that. I don't see how anything good can come from it. I appreciate the feedback and did think about it for a minute.
aduey06
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You don't have to pit the two companies against each other, you can ask for a raise without letting the current one know about the other offer. Be careful with the travel increase because it could be more than anticipated and it gets old quick especially if you start having kids. I have jumped around more than is probably advised just for those 20% bumps and looking back I wish I would not have made one of the last ones.
IrishTxAggie
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I somewhat disagree on the jumping around concerns. I'm 29 and just started on my 3rd job in 5 years and 4th in 7.5 years. Always left on good terms and always moved upwards in title/position. Since my first post graduation job, my salary has gone from X to 5X. Companies don't reward loyalty like they used to and you have to go out and get more yourself. If you're valuable and you've proven yourself, your former employers will feel the hurt when you leave and your future employers won't knock on you for bouncing. If anything it might forewarn them to keep you engaged and happy to keep you. Within 6 months of leaving two of those companies they asked if I would come back. If they would've paid me the ludicrous number I gave them I would've. Have to look out for yourself and your own these days.

Though I fully agree on the "trap door" travel percentage companies may give.
Pepper Brooks
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My travel doubling would mean going from 1-2 times a quarter to 1-2 times a month. We're talking day trips or 1 nighters, nothing crazy.
YouBet
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Seems like a no brainer to move especially if your commute is decreasing. And that travel is totally manageable although the older I get almost any travel wears me out and I'm only 43.

We've historically had a lot of people leave our company only to return within 6 mos to 2 years because of the culture issue elsewhere. They all get pay bumps leaving and coming back and made everyone else jealous about it. Not so much an issue anymore as we've changed the way we pay.
The Original AG 76
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Its all about answering a simple question..
Why are you working for someone ? Is it for the money and future security or some nebulous " personal growth and fulfillment " stuff ?
IF WE ARE HONEST with ourselves , which is extremely hard to be, most of us will have to admit that its ALL about money. As one who is done and over and have the hindsight of 50 plus years of working I can say unequivocally that I don't waste a single brain cell looking back at so-called accomplishments, growth, fulfillment or whatever..I ONLY look back at missed or made opportunities to make more MONEY. To clarify that is not just the take home but a combo or benefits, ability to earn perks, access to promotion in order to get raises..etc..Its a package deal.
Now this only applies to " wage slaves" ( I love the Japanese for this term) not the lucky few with true entrepreneurial genes. They play by a different set of rules and have totally different world views..God bless em. It also doesn't apply to that small stub set of wage slaves that actually are doing " what they love" type work regardless of the pay. I have a friend who could make mega bucks in finance yet he absolutely loves doing talk radio at a pittance. He has chosen to be kinda poor in order to play radio... However for the vast majority of us its all about money. At 65 years old looking back whilst perusing your retirement portfolio on the back porch over that 2nd cup of coffee you wont give a tinkers damn nor thought about the " culture" you experienced at age 35 at XYZ Corp ! You will only think about the missed $xxx,xxx you could have staring you in the portfolio had you went to ABC Corp with its bad " culture" but better remuneration's ..
Pepper Brooks
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I talked to my FIL about it last night(just retired in March) and he said almost exactly the same thing. He stayed in contact with the people he met and enjoyed but that's about it.
The Original AG 76
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BoilerAg10 said:

I talked to my FIL about it last night(just retired in March) and he said almost exactly the same thing. He stayed in contact with the people he met and enjoyed but that's about it.
yep..and as an add on.
When I do get together with my old co-workers and friends form these past 50 years we ONLY talk about the funny stories, the guys long gone and stuff related to EVERYTHING other than " culture" and so called accomplishments. I can't remember a single conversation about that WhoopieDo Project that was so damn all important in 1997 or the other work related things that we thought was so vital . Its just not important. We do talk with GREAT REGRET about missed opportunities to make more money and more important..Missed time from life. NO ONE admires each other for all of those weekends and holiday LOST forever. We now look on each other in anger when lamenting the total wasted time building a bank account for Mr CEO or MR ZXY Corp instead of seeing Disney Land with the kids.... Mr CEO made millions while we got 3% raise...and not a single trip to Jelleystone with the family cause the WhoopieDo project HAD to be done and we HAD to be there every weekend....
In short..make every damn dime you can, do NOT ever think that you are part of some damn company, you are an asset ONLY ..nothing but a glorified crescent wrench ...A TOOL... balance work and family and ONLY dedicate time to any company if there is a 100% direct payback NOW ! MAKE MONEY !!!
$$$$$$$ is where its AT !
TwoMarksHand
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The Original AG 76 said:

BoilerAg10 said:

I talked to my FIL about it last night(just retired in March) and he said almost exactly the same thing. He stayed in contact with the people he met and enjoyed but that's about it.
yep..and as an add on.
When I do get together with my old co-workers and friends form these past 50 years we ONLY talk about the funny stories, the guys long gone and stuff related to EVERYTHING other than " culture" and so called accomplishments. I can't remember a single conversation about that WhoopieDo Project that was so damn all important in 1997 or the other work related things that we thought was so vital . Its just not important. We do talk with GREAT REGRET about missed opportunities to make more money and more important..Missed time from life. NO ONE admires each other for all of those weekends and holiday LOST forever. We now look on each other in anger when lamenting the total wasted time building a bank account for Mr CEO or MR ZXY Corp instead of seeing Disney Land with the kids.... Mr CEO made millions while we got 3% raise...and not a single trip to Jelleystone with the family cause the WhoopieDo project HAD to be done and we HAD to be there every weekend....
In short..make every damn dime you can, do NOT ever think that you are part of some damn company, you are an asset ONLY ..nothing but a glorified crescent wrench ...A TOOL... balance work and family and ONLY dedicate time to any company if there is a 100% direct payback NOW ! MAKE MONEY !!!
$$$$$$$ is where its AT !


Can you be my motivation coach?
The Original AG 76
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Ok... let's start...
Step 1-Take a dollar bill outa your wallet and hold in left hand
Step 2- Go look at your kids ( assume a family n kiddos)
Now.... say to yourself
I need to maximize what's in my left hand to take care of and enjoy what's in front of me.
That's it ... if that doesn't work I suggest :
Hope this one works....
https://www.hulu.com/watch/4183
TwoMarksHand
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The Original AG 76 said:

Ok... let's start...
Step 1-Take a dollar bill outa your wallet and hold in left hand
Step 2- Go look at your kids ( assume a family n kiddos)
Now.... say to yourself
I need to maximize what's in my left hand to take care of and enjoy what's in front of me.
That's it ... if that doesn't work I suggest :

Did you actually watch the video you posted...because that is definitely NOT SNL haha

Laugh/cry

Petrino1
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Another thing to note is that since the new offer is with a competitor, the "culture" probably wont be much different from where you are at now. What matters most importantly is how you get along with your boss, and almost as important, your team. You can work for the best company in the world, but if you dont get along with your boss or coworkers then it can quickly become the worst company in the world.
akaggie05
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Your mileage may vary, but here's my two cents.

I graduated in Dec. '05 and have worked in the defense industry ever since. I'm currently on employer #3 and have changed companies roughly every 4 years (although I've been at my current place for 5 and have no plans to leave for now). I've been given some great opportunities at each company, but it became very clear when it was time to leave, not for lack of work, support, or bad environment, but because I felt that I had essentially maxed out for the time being and my potential for advancement felt like a "wait your turn" kind of thing. So, each time I began to feel that way, I essentially said "screw that" and started to look for new opportunities. And lo and behold, each time, opportunities presented themselves which came with significant increases in salary and job title.

For comparison, my industry (and all of my employers so far) are large enough to where I've readily been able to watch the career progress of my peers who graduated at the same time with similar degrees and started working at the same company and/or the same industry. Those that have stuck with the same employer for the past 12 years (including at my current company) tend to be in significantly lower job grades than I am, despite the fact that I would consider them good to great performers.

There's probably an argument to made for a tradeoff between stability and accepting the risks associated with starting at a new shop, having to rebuild your internal network of contacts. However, I openly consider myself a "fast-burner" and act mostly as an independent contractor who just happens to be supporting company X and project Y at the moment. That mentality has served me well so far.

I'm not saying you should jump ship at every opportunity, but my careful observation since entering the workforce a little over a decade ago has proven to me over and over that top performers who are willing to get outside of their comfort zone by exploring new opportunities are usually rewarded handsomely vs. their peers who are more inclined to stay in their safe space.
evan_aggie
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I'd say make every dime you can, but within reason and you have to understand the personal trade-off.

The OP has no kids, but perhaps others value time with their SO (or in the case of kids) versus spending extra time at work to make more money. I've heard stories about how folks "wished they passed up the hours and $ to spend it with family".

The Original AG 76
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I fully agree. I think we are saying the same thing. My take was IF you have to put in those mega hours make damn sure they result in $$$$ not kudos.
All of us old martyrs look back and understand that we never really got sheit for the lost man years. Few ever do unless you own the hog farm.
Cyp0111
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Corporate Fit is overrated as most large corporations "shift" every 3-5 years due to various reasons outside of your control.

As long as the manager hiring you is good and the team working with you is serviceable make the jump. Treat yourself as an independent contractor and get the most money in the shortest period of time as possible.

I learned this the hard way and im only 11 years out of college. I spent the first 7 or so at a large oil and gas company and was rated at the top of the heap, got all the recognition (non-monetary) and was promised great things in the future. However, I had a change at the manager position responsible for talent development and he wanted to "trade" a high potential person from his group to another group for a past favor owed.

So, after all that I was to start in a position that was not a good fit due to corporate politics. That changed how I viewed the world. I learned a hard lesson that I had little to no control over my "corporate life".

Fast forward 5 years. I moved companies, still work hard, rank at the top of the function but pushed the issue on recognition in a monetary form as well. Bonuses alone are 1.5x of my old salary and it's because I worked for "me". I still provide a service and level of expertise that justifies the cost for my employer, but I'm in the process of shaving years of my corporate work life.

This compensation structure wont last forever but as mentioned above, I'm saving and shaving a year off my corporate work life each year that passes.

You do you man. Get that paper.
jakelew04
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I say take the job. A bump in pay this significant doesn't come along all the time as mentioned. And the development opportunities you mention are huge. Even if you feel like a similar bump and development opportunities at your current place are reasonably likely, nothing is guaranteed.

Only thing that would change my decision would be red flags with the hiring manager or new team or worries about the near term stability of the new company (financial situation, industry consolidation, etc.). Gotta do your due dilligence.

Quality of life would be the other consideration, but those don't seem to be an issue based on your post.

sts7049
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also, it could be that the experiences you heard about wouldn't be the same for you. maybe they weren't a good fit for the company but maybe it will work for you.
Pepper Brooks
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm waiting on them to respond to my counter and will likely end up signing the acceptance letter by the end of the week.
IrishTxAggie
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BoilerAg10 said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm waiting on them to respond to my counter and will likely end up signing the acceptance letter by the end of the week.
Congrats!! Best of luck with whichever decision you make.
62strat
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ColinAggie said:

I somewhat disagree on the jumping around concerns. I'm 29 and just started on my 3rd job in 5 years and 4th in 7.5 years. Always left on good terms and always moved upwards in title/position. Since my first post graduation job, my salary has gone from X to 5X.
what were you still flipping burgers post graduation or what?

IrishTxAggie
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62strat said:

ColinAggie said:

I somewhat disagree on the jumping around concerns. I'm 29 and just started on my 3rd job in 5 years and 4th in 7.5 years. Always left on good terms and always moved upwards in title/position. Since my first post graduation job, my salary has gone from X to 5X.
what were you still flipping burgers post graduation or what?


No, working in agriculture. Doesn't pay as well starting out, but if you network well and learn a few key skills early on, it will pay off huge in the long run.
FrioAg 00
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IMO it has the most to do with phase of your career.

Most professional careers are 35-45 years long. Good advice I got early was to ignore income for the first 1/3 of your career and take the roles with the steepest learning curves. Focus on making yourself more valuable by what you learn.

Spend the 2nd 1/3 of your career balancing time with your family and driving up your income. Pretty much focus on those two things.

If you've done the first 2/3 right, the last 1/3 you ought to be ina pretty great position to enjoy flexibility. Apply your skills ina way you really love every day. Freedom is a great feeling.

Not true for everyone (obviously) but not a bad guide either. Going by the '10 I would say chase the learning curve of the new job
62strat
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ColinAggie said:

62strat said:

ColinAggie said:

I somewhat disagree on the jumping around concerns. I'm 29 and just started on my 3rd job in 5 years and 4th in 7.5 years. Always left on good terms and always moved upwards in title/position. Since my first post graduation job, my salary has gone from X to 5X.
what were you still flipping burgers post graduation or what?


No, working in agriculture. Doesn't pay as well starting out, but if you network well and learn a few key skills early on, it will pay off huge in the long run.
Either way nice work. I'd be pushing $300k if I was making 5X my first job! But I can see how that can quickly go down since many first jobs are in the $30ks.
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