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In-Laws Retiring - Help

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FTAC2011
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12:14p, 8/14/17
AG
Long story short, FIL worked for a company for 40 years had to retire because of medical reasons. They took a lump sum retirement package (not sure how much but I would guess around 300k just from conversations) and are mishandling the money. I've talked to my brother in law and my wife of course about how much it bothers me to see them waste away their money, but no one wants to bring up the conversation with them. I want them to get a financial advisor to try and salvage what they do have so they don't rely on SS after a couple of years. I'm going to bring it up to them. I feel like it's not my place, but I'm willing to sacrifice them being pissed at me for the better of their future.

Any ideas of how to talk to them about it?
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TennAg
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12:25p, 8/14/17
No talking, make a chart.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to TennAg • 12:33p, 8/14/17
AG
TennAg said:
No talking, make a chart.


Okay I like this... compare returns of investing vs what they are doing? What other kinds of charts do you suggest?
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TwoMarksHand
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12:37p, 8/14/17
AG
I'm not doubting you, but what makes you think they are wasting it away? Just curious and wanted some background.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to TwoMarksHand • 12:53p, 8/14/17
AG
Yeah no problem... I guess I'm not 100% sure but I know they do not have an advisor, spending money on house for "upgrades" they don't need, buying new appliances, buying new cars, etc. They know nothing about money or investing from the conversations I have had with them.

They had a lot of debt before, and I just don't think their behaviors have changed.
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In reply to FTAC2011 • 12:54p, 8/14/17
FTAC2011
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In reply to [removed post] • 1:02p, 8/14/17
AG
I'm talking about a hypothetical investment situation. They are not investing their money
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Bassmaster
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1:21p, 8/14/17
AG
Neither your wife nor her brother want to bring it up to them and you are still going to go at it alone? Is there some reason why you would be more qualified than your wife or her brother (job, education, etc.)? Or do you have a unique relationship with them as a son-in-law where they show a lot of outward respect to you? If not, I don't see how this could end well for you. What if they just end up pissed at you and they don't take any steps to remedy the problem? I understand the frustration (I have financial idiots in my family too), but I think most people wouldn't be responsive in this situation. If your wife and her brother don't want to address the issue, I would just sit this one out.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to Bassmaster • 1:28p, 8/14/17
AG
I get what you're saying, but yes they have a lot of respect for me. I don't have a career in giving financial advice, but they know I am financially savvy. I wouldn't go at it alone. I've already asked my wife and brother in law to support me in the conversation and they agreed because they are both worried the same way I am. I don't feel like I can just "sit this one out" because this is the future of their life.
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Bassmaster
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In reply to FTAC2011 • 1:32p, 8/14/17
AG
I understand. If they believe that you are financially savvy, you might have a chance. I already worry about this because my wife's mom is terrible with money and blows it on frivolous things like purses, clothes, and jewelry (not to mention the money she blows on horses). Her husband (wife's step-dad) has plenty of money, but he is about 15 years older than her and when he kicks the can, she'll be broke in no time. To avoid her living in our extra bedroom when this happens, my wife claims we are having a come to Jesus meeting with her when this happens. Good luck.
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Casey TableTennis
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In reply to FTAC2011 • 1:44p, 8/14/17
AG
Above all else, you should approach this from a place of care. Everyone has different values, wants, concerns, etc... While you may be absolutely correct that they are wasting their money, it is their choice to do so.

Use your financial plan/advisor as the "bad guy"... "my advisor asked if I would be supporting any family down the road. I know you took the retirement package, but I'm not sure if that plus SS, etc... will comfortably take care of everything. Can we find a time to talk about your long-term plans?" If you don't have an advisor, blame a random internet poster, friend's situation, or really anything that gets it away from just you being nosy.

If you are confident they would use it with an open mind, you could also gift them some time with a CFP that does hourly work to start the conversation.
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2:18p, 8/14/17
Comanche_Ag
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2:39p, 8/14/17
AG
There are so many instances of financial issues bringing out the worst in families. I wouldn't do it, especially as a son-in-law. Their financial security is not worth the value of your relationship with your wife and her side of the family.

Also, this is probably a lifelong learned habit and your conversation is unlikely to bring about major change.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to Comanche_Ag • 2:45p, 8/14/17
AG
Comanche_Ag said:
There are so many instances of financial issues bringing out the worst in families. I wouldn't do it, especially as a son-in-law. Their financial security is not worth the value of your relationship with your wife and her side of the family.

Also, this is probably a lifelong learned habit and your conversation is unlikely to bring about major change.


Thanks for the advice and seems like a lot agree with you, but can I compare this issue to someone struggling with something else, whether it be a drug habit, an alcohol habit, or just a habit of doing the wrong things in general... we would talk to those people, right? I think it's similar because it's a problem, but maybe it's wrong to compare the two because some of the others could be life threatening.

It's hard for me to sit on the sidelines because I care about them and their well being. If I didn't I wouldn't think twice about it.
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brownbrick
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2:55p, 8/14/17
AG

Quote:
Their financial security is not worth the value of your relationship with your wife and her side of the family.
My wife and I are currently helping with other siblings to support a family member who didn't save enough. I was asked my opinion about some financial things and that opinion was given and ignored, and now we are here today. I don't mind helping out at all, I think we should help provide a decent life for those in our family that raised us. That being said, I have had to make clear, that I'm not working to provide a life that my own family can't or doesn't have. At least in our case the family member carries no debt and paid off a house with their retirement money.

We have a great relationship, and this person is always very appreciative of the support we provide and now seems to be saving up small amounts of that to buy the nice things. Knowing this person's spending habits whenever they do have money, I would have hated being the one that had to try and stop them spending their own money because it was theirs and how dare I tell them to keep it invested or whatever.

If you will be completely unable to support them if they fail, this might be a good discussion to have, but it really needs to be led by their son or daughter. They should understand the math enough to have this discussion without you present. Remember, you can only give advice, they have to make the decision to budget their money appropriately. (Or go back to work again in their old age).

The worst thing you could do is make them feel stupid. When my wife and I first got married, we were taking care of debt and reading a Dave Ramsey book and her reaction to reading him was "He's telling me I'm stupid, I'm not stupid, how dare he!" We got over that in time because she isn't stupid, she just wasn't raised to save money. Even when making a table, if the evidence makes it clear they are headed towards a cliff, figure out ahead of time how to present that without it becoming personal.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to brownbrick • 3:16p, 8/14/17
AG
Seriously, thank you for this personal story. Seems extremely similar to what we are facing.

I agree that I don't mind helping, but it's going to be hard to help someone who blew away their money when they shouldn't need help if they just did the right things.
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Stive
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3:23p, 8/14/17
AG
Yeah I'm going to watchlist this one.....







The only thing I'll add to the OP though......."You see that bear trap over there? You might want to avoid stepping off into that thing."

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jpd301
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4:02p, 8/14/17
AG
Are you sure they aren't sitting on some other nest egg from like 40 years of investing and that blowing this chunk wasn't part of their plan? I'd stay out of it unless you think they may end up living with you.
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TwoMarksHand
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In reply to jpd301 • 4:04p, 8/14/17
AG
jpd301 said:
Are you sure they aren't sitting on some other nest egg from like 40 years of investing and that blowing this chunk wasn't part of their plan? I'd stay out of it unless you think they may end up living with you.
I thought this at first, but he did say they have a history of debt concerns.
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FTAC2011
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In reply to jpd301 • 4:11p, 8/14/17
AG
jpd301 said:
Are you sure they aren't sitting on some other nest egg from like 40 years of investing and that blowing this chunk wasn't part of their plan? I'd stay out of it unless you think they may end up living with you.


Positive. History of debt and poor money management habits. Had cars repossessed. They are living off the lump sum, social security, and an hourly wage income from the Home Depot

Luckily I don't think they would ever be asking us for a room. The best thing they have going for them is a good house in an even better area. House has appreciated a ton. They could always sell and downsize.
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Stive
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In reply to FTAC2011 • 4:35p, 8/14/17
AG
If they're living off of it, then I'd say leave them alone. The likelihood of them changing their stripes at this point in life is next to zero; add to it that the "advice" is coming from their SIL and they probably don't see themselves as having a problem, and you're kicking a hornets nest that doesn't need to be kicked.
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_lefraud_
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8:38p, 8/14/17
AG
What's their age?
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FTAC2011
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 8:41p, 8/14/17
AG
He is 69 she is 58
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_lefraud_
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9:07p, 8/14/17
AG
Yea, I wouldn't try much of anything with them at that age. Maybe if they were 10 years younger. You might try and hint at some ways to invest and what now, just out of conversation. But I definitely wouldn't bother with a full blown intervention.
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ORAggieFan
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9:27p, 8/14/17
No personal experience here, but I think I'm against the majority. I think OP is right to want to address and should. Maybe it is a one time advice and move on whatever they decide, but addressing is the responsible thing to do.
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ATM9000
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9:39p, 8/14/17
AG
Unless you know the full situation (their entire asset situation, budget, etc), don't say anything other than maybe hinting at go see a financial advisor... because you really probably don't know **** abt the situation and everyone will think you are an ass and rightfully so.

If you have an advisor then no harm in recommending your advisor just casually (not accusatory like 'you need this guy' but more like recommending a restaurant you like if that makes sense). And for sure if everyone agrees there needs to be a come to Jesus moment about the finances, talk to your SO about it only and then her and her siblings can address it. That's the sort of conversation that blood should have with blood. You can't pilot it or you will more likely than not piss a bunch of people off for different reasons. Advise in the background? Cool. Have the conversation yourself? Horrible idea.
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Casey TableTennis
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9:53p, 8/14/17
AG
Not having candid conversations about finances with trusted family members is a major problem in the U.S. There are certainly wrong ways to approach it, but to avoid it because it could cause problems (that one would typically want to avoid) is simply selfish IMO.

I've advised many families to delicately tread into these waters, and coached them how to do so. It isn't that hard if the heart and mind more open than the mouth.
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Farmer1906
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9:51a, 8/15/17
AG
I think what the OP is doing is right. It may not be easy and they may not like it, but he's doing the right thing. Just approach it in a manner that protects their feelings and let them know it is coming from a good place.
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Comanche_Ag
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In reply to Casey TableTennis • 11:01a, 8/15/17
AG
Casey TableTennis said:
Not having candid conversations about finances with trusted family members is a major problem in the U.S. There are certainly wrong ways to approach it, but to avoid it because it could cause problems (that one would typically want to avoid) is simply selfish IMO.

I've advised many families to delicately tread into these waters, and coached them how to do so. It isn't that hard if the heart and mind more open than the mouth.

I agree with this when you are in the right position/relationship to do so. As a son-in-law, you are usually not in that position. Many relationship dynamics are different, however.
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TwoMarksHand
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11:14a, 8/15/17
AG
I don't have much to offer to this discussion other than I find it very fascinating listening to both sides. If this were me and my in-laws there would be no way I would lead that conversation. I don't have that kind of cred, and frankly neither does my wife or her sister due to our much younger age.
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The Collective
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1:05p, 8/15/17
AG
I am all about being straight up with people that I care about, but I side with the camp that supports no conversation. If they have struggled this long, your conversation is unlikely to create a "come to Jesus" moment for them. If you do have a conversation, you could start by talking to them about what their plan is for the future, and what their expectation is for your role within that plan.
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Bassmaster
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In reply to Comanche_Ag • 1:23p, 8/15/17
AG
Comanche_Ag said:
Casey TableTennis said:
Not having candid conversations about finances with trusted family members is a major problem in the U.S. There are certainly wrong ways to approach it, but to avoid it because it could cause problems (that one would typically want to avoid) is simply selfish IMO.

I've advised many families to delicately tread into these waters, and coached them how to do so. It isn't that hard if the heart and mind more open than the mouth.

I agree with this when you are in the right position/relationship to do so. As a son-in-law, you are usually not in that position. Many relationship dynamics are different, however.

That is the problem here IMO. You have to wonder why exactly it is that the wife and BIL do not want to have the conversation. Either they don't think it is a big deal, they don't think it will have any positive influence on them, or they see it going badly.
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TXAGFAN
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7:37p, 8/16/17
AG
Given all the spending you reference above I'm guessing it's too late.
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khkman22
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In reply to FTAC2011 • 8:24p, 8/16/17
AG
FTAC2011 said:
I don't feel like I can just "sit this one out" because this is the future of their life my inheritance.

FTAC2011 said:
It's hard for me to sit on the sidelines because I care about them me and their my well being. If I didn't I wouldn't think twice about it.

FIFY
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FTAC2011
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In reply to khkman22 • 8:50p, 8/16/17
AG
khkman22 said:
FTAC2011 said:
I don't feel like I can just "sit this one out" because this is the future of their life my inheritance.

FTAC2011 said:
It's hard for me to sit on the sidelines because I care about them me and their my well being. If I didn't I wouldn't think twice about it.

FIFY


I hope you're joking. I'm sure you are.

Either way... they ain't leaving me *****
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