Business & Investing
Sponsored by

Safe Operations O&G

7,406 Views | 81 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Joseph Parrish
bkag9824
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Safety nerd on a mobile alert:

Curious how many of y'all complaining about the overkill nature have been unfortunate enough to have investigated or reviewed fatal, or even near fatal, events in detail? Do you truly appreciate how close to death folks are every single day? Do you truly understand that even if a worker may have done everything right, just how incredibly easy it is to be the victim of another's carelessness or lack of focus, plain old innocent ignorance, or worse still - purposeful deviation from policies/procedures?

Not accusing, genuinely intrested.

Having reviewed incident data for a large company for the past few years, I can unequivocally say that the majority of safeguards help. However, no amount of safeguards will help instill the sense of self preservation required to fundamentally understand the risks present on rigs and/or production facilities. You simply cannot teach people to care enough about themselves (looking at you overweight smoker who's in the fast food line).

I think most of you would be surprised to know how much effort is spent on preventing catastrophic incidents.

That's not to say FRCs in a greenfield aren't overbearing. But it goes to consistency. Folks can't even get the basics of LOTO/IHE correct, and need more reinforcement than you might imagine. Would you ever start work on a job that you didn't personally check every energy isolation point and apply your own personal form of LOTO (lock/chain, etc)? How about walk under a suspended load?

Think anybody's ever died or been seriously injured because they took a "short cut to just get the job done" and trusted safeguard implementation to somebody else?

Give yourselves the credit of being highly educated while also realizing the majority of folks who show up to the field can't even identify what could kill them that day. Want to talk waste? How about creating/maintaining policies for all of your facilities/operations, even though they don't differ all that much, and folks can't even get one critical policy right consistently. That's waste.
Vernada
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And I think this kind of attitude is part of the problem - being somewhat cynical and seeing hypocrisy does not mean not caring about safety or believing in the IIF mentality.

Like I alluded to before, too many people view safety as something that cannot be questioned under any circumstance because it's almost become a religion.
bkag9824
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't think my desire for an ability to operate more often in a "common sense" mode was properly conveyed. Think I like wearing FRCs and a hard hat when the chance of being caught on fire or having something dropped on my head is remote? No, I don't.

But I do care about learning from prior incidents that killed or seriously hurt people when "just a little common sense" or "adherence to the most basic rules" would have prevented it from happening.

There's a difference, and allocating significant resources to create multiple policies and procedures for the same basic task dependent on minor variables can be overly burdensome to the company. You end up wasting time clarifying exceptions to the rule.
Vernada
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

But I do care about learning from prior incidents that killed or seriously hurt people when "just a little common sense" or "adherence to the most basic rules" would have prevented it from happening.
I doubt you'll find many people taking issue with that.

I in the past 24ish months I've been privy to a fatality investigation and lead 2 RCA teams reviewing separate severe near misses.

In all three cases the underlying factor was more or less 'someone else will do it.' (my opinion and interpretation)

My favorite concept for instilling safety is to have a situation where the team members get to actually know one another and care for each other. I think it's much easier to look out for 'Timmy's Dad' than it is for that 'deck rigger'.
bkag9824
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We're on the same page.
BlackGoldAg2011
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bjork said:

However, every quarterly safety meeting I hear the review of incidents and near misses. If you let the field just run, they really will do some stupid *****
It seems like we all agree on the basic premise here, but I think the bolded above will always be the main barrier to trying to scale back to just common sense safety measures like not needing FRCs and hard hats to walk a water transfer line in an open field checking for leaks. Because while I complain about the corporate safety religion, I gave also witnessed a field hand climb out of a man basket and on to a frac stack about 8 or 9 ft up, to start beating on it with a sledge hammer, while it was under pressure....
sts7049
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
we killed someone last year on a site that was just pumping water at low pressure. unfortunately people will naturally want to minimize risk in that situation because it's "just water". i think we would make a real difference if people would stop and think about what they're doing and really understand what the hazards are in a situation. take more ownership and accountability to understand the job at hand and not view toolbox talks and JSAs and things like that as hindrances or box-checking exercises and maybe we have a chance at not getting people hurt.
Joseph Parrish
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BlackGoldAg2011 said:

bjork said:

However, every quarterly safety meeting I hear the review of incidents and near misses. If you let the field just run, they really will do some stupid *****
It seems like we all agree on the basic premise here, but I think the bolded above will always be the main barrier to trying to scale back to just common sense safety measures like not needing FRCs and hard hats to walk a water transfer line in an open field checking for leaks.
Just to clarify again. My complaint isn't FRCs in general. I'm ok with my guys using them, but it is lazy to just tell the guys to put on FRCs and not acknowledge that the safety professionals mandating their use didn't magnify a more significant threat. Heat stroke and heat exhaustion are much bigger threats. I think a thinner material would be a much safer option. They do make FRCs with thinner material that wouldn't be as big of threat.
Joseph Parrish
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
jayelbee said:

Joseph Parrish said:

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

bjork said:

However, every quarterly safety meeting I hear the review of incidents and near misses. If you let the field just run, they really will do some stupid *****
It seems like we all agree on the basic premise here, but I think the bolded above will always be the main barrier to trying to scale back to just common sense safety measures like not needing FRCs and hard hats to walk a water transfer line in an open field checking for leaks.
Just to clarify again. My complaint isn't FRCs in general. I'm ok with my guys using them, but it is lazy to just tell the guys to put on FRCs and not acknowledge that the safety professionals mandating their use didn't magnify a more significant threat. Heat stroke and heat exhaustion are much bigger threats. I think a thinner material would be a much safer option. They do make FRCs with thinner material that wouldn't be as big of threat.

IMO, you're much better off with 7oz breathable cotton FRCs, than "lighter" 4oz nomex. Yeah, it's hot, but everyone knows this, so you drink lots of water and you only wear underwear or gym shorts under your coveralls.


You can have your opinions. That's fine, but you don't have to deal with the heat stroke or heat exhaustion issues that I do. I'm not saying you don't have issues to deal with, but I'm responsible for my guys. Safety should fit the situation, and if unintended consequences become more of a threat they need to be dealt with and not ignored.
sts7049
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
what situation do you work in that creates such a hazardous heat stroke situation by wearing FRCs?
birdman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sts7049 said:

what situation do you work in that creates such a hazardous heat stroke situation by wearing FRCs?
Texas
Joseph Parrish
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
sts7049 said:

what situation do you work in that creates such a hazardous heat stroke situation by wearing FRCs?


Bakersfield, CA. It gets extremely hot and is extremely dry out here. I think the lack of humidity is actually more of a problem at really high temperatures. I know humidity increases the heat index, but you don't start to sweat as early so your body doesn't begin to cool down until later. It's not like in Houston where you can just be outside for a little while and be drenched.

And again. I haven't had a single instance where one of my guys was even close to catching fire. I can't count the number of times we've had to worry about heat related illnesses. At some point OSHA needs to recognize the real hazard.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.