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Retiring Early - Health Insurance

4,161 Views | 32 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Endo Ag
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ATXAdvisor
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You may be able to buy COBRA from your company's group plan for 18 months. After that, you are left the plans through the Affordable Care Act until you reach Medicare eligibility, currently 65 but being discussed to raise to 67. There are some who promote religious health care sharing ministries that offer lower premiums for coverage and help you avoid the Obamacare penalties , but there seems to be a lot of "faith" that goes into those arrangements. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next few months with Congress and the President committed to repealing and replacing Obamacare.
Aggie09Derek
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Are you class of '11?
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Furlock Bones
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Uruguay
george92
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Furlock Bones said:

Uruguay


What does his sexual orientation have to do with anything?
Cyp0111
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I'm interested as well. I'm hoping in roughly 15 years we have all of this sorted out.
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histag10
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jake2011 said:

Aggie09Derek said:

Are you class of '11?


No I'm 38


Those two are not mutually exclusive
Furlock Bones
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george92 said:

Furlock Bones said:

Uruguay


What does his sexual orientation have to do with anything?
Harkrider 93
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are you planning on retiring soon or more like 10 years?

I wouldn't worry about it if you are 5+ years out. I wouldn't worry about it regardless due to the fact there is nothing you can do but accept what there is. Assume the 1k/mo premium with 5k/yr deductible. If you have enough money for that plus all other bills and fun, then retire.

If health care changes for the worse, you make adjustments then.

As for the health sharing - I have a good friend that runs a pretty large one. These usually have some religious clauses in them. An example he shared was that you get in a wreck, are injured, and had drugs or alcohol in the system, they may not cover your medical bills. If you are good with things like that, then it is a great opportunity to consider.
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The Original AG 76
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Def COBRA for the 18 months. Private insurance is in chaos right now and is way expensive and has horrible coverage thanks to the destructive regs and roadblocks of o'crapcare.
I think that in 18 moths or so you we will start to see the insurance industry recover and start to deliver quality products and innovations ( such as sell products across state lines) .
Anything you find or do now will probably change significantly in a couple of years so I would suggest you put of retirement off a year or so and then use COBRA until the destructive forces of that ACA garbage is removed.
John Maplethorpe
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Only half joking. How do you feel about Costa Rica or the Dominican? Large ex-pat communities there.
ATXAdvisor
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jake2011 said:

Harkrider 93 said:

are you planning on retiring soon or more like 10 years?

I wouldn't worry about it if you are 5+ years out. I wouldn't worry about it regardless due to the fact there is nothing you can do but accept what there is. Assume the 1k/mo premium with 5k/yr deductible. If you have enough money for that plus all other bills and fun, then retire.

If health care changes for the worse, you make adjustments then.

As for the health sharing - I have a good friend that runs a pretty large one. These usually have some religious clauses in them. An example he shared was that you get in a wreck, are injured, and had drugs or alcohol in the system, they may not cover your medical bills. If you are good with things like that, then it is a great opportunity to consider.


Ideally would like to hang it up around 50 or so 12 years from now. I would be ok with the religious clauses as we are religious.
I am hesitant to provide further commentary here, but the health sharing ministries have some huge differences between insurance policies. First, insurance companies are subject to regulation by the state in the form of capital requirements, rate structure, and licensing. Obamacare has added a burden on insurance companies to accept customers that are higher risks than the general population, also known as adverse selection. Relatively healthy people look at the rates that are then necessary to cover the less healthy and they balk.

These health sharing arrangements only accept healthy people that commit to certain lifestyle choices (i.e. no tobacco, drugs) but also have relatively few protections for claimants in the case of disputes. Furthermore, a series of high cost claims could easily lead to rising costs that would likely result in fewer payers into the arrangement which could ultimately result in the same problems faced by the current insurance industry (too many sick people, not enough healthy people paying premiums).

There are no free lunches when it comes to insurance. A big reason the costs are lower on health sharing arrangements is because the risk is much higher to the members. Potential members must understand that they can save a buck on monthly health care premiums but that they may find themselves uncovered in the most catastrophic cases.

Even Uruguay is no panacea, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/internationallivingcom/quality-health-care-at-an_b_5621826.html.

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The Original AG 76
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JJMt said:

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Potential members must understand that they can save a buck on monthly health care premiums but that they may find themselves uncovered in the most catastrophic cases.
Any actual facts to support that statement? It comes across as fear-mongering. If claims are spread across tens of thousands of members, even catastrophic cases have little risk of being unpaid. There are many, many examples of people with catastrophic cases who have had their claims paid in full through these sharing ministries.

Further, continuing the current system of relying upon insurance, where the patient doesn't even see the medical bills, is not going to solve the root, fundamental problems of our health care system. Government regulation of insurers and of the health care system is not a solution; rather, it exacerbates the problem, and may in fact be the cause of the problem.
I have several friend on various health share programs and they say that they go and find a ultra high deductible catastrophic coverage policy for that " transplant" type event that could exceed the ability of the share program to cover.
Again ALL of this is going to change BIGLY in a YUGE way over the next 2 years so I would wait and see. NOTHING you do today will be relevant in 2-3 years.
Harkrider 93
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Upon hearing how these folks operate, I wouldn't worry too much about a large expense. A smaller health sharing place would worry me about their ability to pay if a bunch of claims came in at once.

That being said, it is the regulatory aspect I would be more concerned with. The licensed insurance companies are regulated, monitored and have assets in place of catastrophe. The health sharing doesn't have that as much. Think of Bernie Madoff.

This would be fractional, but that is where Renegade is probably coming from. Pyramid schemes are more frequent than you think. These health sharing companies are perfect for a pyramid scheme, thus the caution.
Harkrider 93
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It is good that you are thinking ahead, but with 12 years from now being the goal, why worry about it now? You will have plenty of time and new info 11 years from now.
ATXAdvisor
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JJMt said:

Quote:

Potential members must understand that they can save a buck on monthly health care premiums but that they may find themselves uncovered in the most catastrophic cases.
Any actual facts to support that statement? It comes across as fear-mongering. If claims are spread across tens of thousands of members, even catastrophic cases have little risk of being unpaid. There are many, many examples of people with catastrophic cases who have had their claims paid in full through these sharing ministries.

Further, continuing the current system of relying upon insurance, where the patient doesn't even see the medical bills, is not going to solve the root, fundamental problems of our health care system. Government regulation of insurers and of the health care system is not a solution; rather, it exacerbates the problem, and may in fact be the cause of the problem.
Not fear mongering, just trying to help people make informed decisions. How about a couple of quotes from the previously mentioned Samaritan Ministries website for facts? I added emphasis by bolding some info...

  • As explained in the answer to question 2, one reason Samaritan Ministries is not an insurance company is that there is no transfer of risk. This means that when a member receives medical care, there is no "claim" that is owed. There is simply a medical need. Samaritan members send proof of their medical expenses to the Samaritan Ministries office where they are evaluated according to the Guidelines. Then the qualified needs are shared among the members by being published in a monthly newsletter mailing where each active member is asked to share in another member's medical need. Again, this giving is voluntary and does not involve any legal obligation (claim) on the ministry or the other members.

  • The maximum amount that will be shared among the members for each medical need (i.e. illness or injury, see Section VI.A.5 and 6) is $250,000. The need has to meet the Guidelines before it can be shared. SMI members are also eligible to participate in another sharing ministry, Save to Share, where the rest of needs over $250,000 may be shared. (See Save to Share Guidelines.) Massachusetts' members are required to participate in Save to Share. There is no limit on the number of needs one person may have shared.

  • God is the only One Who has enough resources to provide for all of the needs of everyone. He has worked through Samaritan members in amazing ways to provide for our members' medical needs, but He also has provided through other means.
  • Past contributions by Samaritan members assisting one another are not any guarantee of future actions. There is not a promise/contract by SMI or the members to contribute toward any need you might have in the future. The only promise by SMI is to make qualifying medical needs known through the monthly newsletter mailing, so SMI members can give voluntary gifts to those members with needs.
george92
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God. Love that guy.
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ATXAdvisor
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I didn't refer to fraud, which is certainly a possibility in any business, regulated or not. If we totally want to derail this thread, we could spend days discussing frauds that began because of the trust that faith based groups engender (Madoff included).

Everyone needs healthcare at some point and insurance is most effective when covering low probability high cost risk. If someone wants to base a retirement plan of faith based solutions, more power to them. Just understand that some bad luck in the group could lead to much higher costs than anticipated, just as good luck may go the other way.
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Harkrider 93
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I apologize with using the term regulatory. It is what was allowed though the language that is the problem. The health share and Bernie types have more leeway within that language than do others.

Harkrider 93
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JJMt said:

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Just understand that some bad luck in the group could lead to much higher costs than anticipated
A risk also of any commercial insurance company or self-insured group.
True but state agencies force them to have certain things in place so that if bad luck happens, they have the resources available. I am not saying a health share doesn't, it is just that state agencies are really hard on the insurance companies.

For Texas, we used to not allow health sharing (people still did it but it was illegal). Texas didn't like that it wasn't held to the same standards as insurance. I know that it is now legal, but I don't know if they have the same demands.

Think of the demands like the stress tests they put on banks. You have to pass this scenario or get out of Texas.
Zemira
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JJMt said:

No exclusion for chronic conditions that I know of, but they do exclude preexisting conditions unless and until you have been symptom-free from that condition for 3 years. Don't hold me to that; I'm basing that on memory.


Typically if a condition is Chronic then it is probably pre-existing. Chronic conditions typically don't go symptom free for more than a few months much less 3 years. I don't think the Med Share programs are viable for people with chronic health conditions.

I need to retire early for my health, but I gotta get the health insurance figured out. Before I got sick I was targeting late 50s. Now thinking 45 or 50 till my health gives out or they find a cure. Living solely on SSDI doesn't appeal to me if I can find a way to avoid it.

I'm hoping they bget private insurance straightened out in the next 10 or so years.
drill4oil78
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jake2011 said:

Harkrider 93 said:

It is good that you are thinking ahead, but with 12 years from now being the goal, why worry about it now? You will have plenty of time and new info 11 years from now.


Don't have a mortgage nor will I have one in retirement so this will most likely be one of my largest expenses so am trying to wrap my arms around it as it could dictate whether I retire even earlier or later. My wife has a chronic condition so we spend a lot on healthcare.
If you have a pre existing condition the Christian based programs like Medi Share will not cover it for 3 years after you are in the plan. Be careful with these plans and ask many questions. I am retired (early)and my daughter who is 23 and a nursing student is on Medi Share. It works good for her, but not for my wife who had breast cancer 2 years ago and cannot be covered for another 3 years on Medi Share. Only alternative Obamacare.

Just pray that Obamacare is killed and replaced with anything soon, because what is out there now in Texas is worthless unless you like one choice and HMO plans with high deductibles and high monthly rates with a good chance your doctors are not in the plan. If you are going to try and retire early you had better consider medical coverage as your biggest expense until you reach 65, but then again Medicare may be bankrupt along with SS by the time you get to that point.
Matsui
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Any way to move funds around and qualify for Medicaid?
Endo Ag
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Agree with those who say anything true today won't be true in five years. Don't stress about it because it is unknowable for now.

We did a Christian ministry this year, as I am a small business owner and am subject to the exchange and penalties. My ACA plan went to over $1400 per month with over $14,000 deductable. Our only significant health expense (ADHD) isn't covered by the ministry, but also didn't come close to the deductible.

Don't forget that it is actually pretty easy to mid year qualify for an ACA plan, so if the fit his the shan, it's easy to switch over. Even if you cannot switch over, $250k will go a long way towards healthcare, then go ACA at the next open enrollment. This loophole is the real reason the ACA is falling, but it is what it is.
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