Yea, but it's free.

mrad85 said:

---

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

How long is that connection at LAX coming and going?

---

2 hrs outbound, but we have TSA pre-check

Won't check luggage till LAX for Delta flight

A tad bit shorter than I wanted, but it was hard enough setting it all up on miles

5.5 hrs inbound

A tad bit longer than I wanted, but again, miles

---

2 hours AA to delta might be a rush at LAX. Not only are you leaving security you have to to take a bus. Any delay and your things get really tight even with precheck and printed or App boarding passes especially since your plan on dropping bags..

On the Terminal 4-7 side, to they opened up a tunnel system a couple years ago that lets you can stay in the secure area and walk between terminals all the way to Tom Bradley.

Of course this won't help him since he has to leave the secure area to check luggage over at Delta in Terminal 3.

Personally, I'd skip the shuttle and just walk across from T4 or T5 to T3. Cut through the parking garage. Depending on this luggage situation obviously.

That's what we did on our return last trip returning HND-LAX-AUS

It was a fairly quick walk outside

We will be traveling light, plus grandkids are good about keeping up. -they still believe I'll leave them

It is a quick walk across at LAX. Do that.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

On the Terminal 4-7 side, to they opened up a tunnel system a couple years ago that lets you can stay in the secure area and walk between terminals all the way to Tom Bradley.

Of course this won't help him since he has to leave the secure area to check luggage over at Delta in Terminal 3.

Personally, I'd skip the shuttle and just walk across from T4 or T5 to T3. Cut through the parking garage. Depending on this luggage situation obviously.

---

I have never had to walk though the garage but there was a mess of construction outside when I flew through in October (had an overnight connection so got a hotel room). I would still plan for a 15 to 20 min walk. I guess I am jaded right now by the number of delayed flights I have had thus more paranoid of short connections. My wife and I had a 2.5 hour connection in SFO between terminals that we almost missed due to a flight delay a few years ago so we plan vary carefully now.

When I flew to Singapore a few years back, I would take a 30 minute nap every day for the first 3 days. I would also get up at 8:00 am local time each time. And hydration is always a big priority.

A good glass of alcohol is usually accompanied by the experience. Still the best glass of wine I have ever experienced was on the Japan to Houston leg of this Singapore trip. It was a Chilean white and I LOVED it.

And I don't sleep on planes. Those post flight naps are life savers.

Got a new long haul pro tip.

Vick's VapoRub.

Before you go to the airport you take you a shower and rub Vick's VapoRub all over the soles of your feet and between your toes. Then you put you on some good merino wool socks and some lightweight shoes.

Trust me on this. I saw it on YouTube. Field tested and SMR approved.

Ive done IAH to TPE dozens of times. One thing I liked was leaving around 1am for the leg (about 16 hours). Get on plane, usually asleep in a few minutes and sleep really well in premium economy. Allows me to arrive in SE Asia in mid afternoon and arrive at hotel at a reasonable hour and then spend a few hours wandering around, eat dinner and such then get a good nights sleep. When I wake up the next day I am usually refreshed and not jet lagged.

In July I have a early morning flight from SFO to Tokyo then BKK. I get to BKK at 10pm, so not as desirable but I got a great deal on it in Premium Economy so it is what it is.

I try not to drink on the plane or before for reasons already discussed prior. Airfare class and health plays a big role in how the flight goes and how you rest or enjoy the flight.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

Got a new long haul pro tip.

Vick's VapoRub.

Before you go to the airport you take you a shower and rub Vick's VapoRub all over the soles of your feet and between your toes. Then you put you on some good merino wool socks and some lightweight shoes.

Trust me on this. I saw it on YouTube. Field tested and SMR approved.

---

What does this do?

It gives you a general sense of comfort and well being.

That's the best way I can describe it.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

---

It gives you a general sense of comfort and well being.

That's the best way I can describe it.

---

Then I'll try it! I'll take any sense of comfort and well being I can get on a long haul flight.

I haven't flown long haul (to us that means DFW to Europe) in over a decade. We are flying to/from Rome later this year. We're flying premium economy there and 'flagship business' back. From what I can tell the return designation of 'flagship' on his flight essentially just means what was historically first class.

To my fligh comfort tips. As I've grown older (upper 40's), my butt's tolerance for airline seats has shrunk. It used to be that 4 hours in economy was about the limit before my glutes started to bother me, and now that is about 2 hours.

In a typical domestic first class seat I'm usually fine until the 4 hour mark, but if I have to get up to go to the RR that'll reset the clock a bit.

Re: alchol - even for a shorter domestic flight I typically don't drink if I'm traveling to a work location. particularly if I know it is going to be busy/stressful. I always sleep like crap the 1st night in a hotel for work already, no point in adding the negatives of alcohol to the mix. If a drink or 2 helps you relax/go to sleep that's great. I think those with lower tolerances also suffer less negatives. My wife can have a drink and it will push her towards sleep on the flight, but it isn't so much that it has an adverse affect.

For me personally the single greatest thing I can control is my personal physical shape. If I've got the extra pounds off the gut and have been lifting weight for a while, I'm exponentially more comfortable sitting in a confined space for a while. This doesn't mean you must get back to your fighting weight, but drop something meaningful in advance if time and will power allow. Adding just a little amount of functional muscle will really help your comfort. I feel like my body/joints 'sag' much less, no pun intended. Then I'm much less likely to be sore when I land.

I need to drop 30lbs before October. That is plenty of runway particularly if I'm lifting. If I had a 4 hour flight a month from now, even loosing 10lbs from today's weight would make a noticeable improvement in my comfort.

Hollywood knows things.

My opinion is different, but his opinion is correct for 95% of flights.

I flew to Australia to see Hollywood in Sydney. But through good fortune and luck, I flew Qatar in a Q suite. It was 13 hours (roughly) to Qatar, then a 4 hour layover in what must be the nicest biz class lounge on earth (formerly Istanbul but not so much anymore) then 13 more hours to Sydney.

I drank scotch for 30 hours straight (when awake)

- Don't judge me -

I arrived in Oz and yes just went to bed but I was right as rain the next morning. I believe it's because I could sleep well on the plane due to the extravagantly comfortable nature of the flight (for me).

If I had to make that same trip in coach, I truly believe I might hijack the plane and crash it on purpose. It's about comfortability. The line between being just fine and going insane is pretty clear. It's insanely expensive to fly at that level. But it leaves you in a much better state than the alternative.

Humble brag I guess but just trying to add perspective.

Miss ya Hollywood!

I'm good for about 2hrs and then I'm ready to get off the plane.

There is no such thing as too long of a flight. The alternative is long layovers, missed connections, flight delays, etc and if everything goes right then best case is you just added 3-4 hours to your overall itinerary.

Can't believe how many years ago that was now. Before the war.

I'm into my final two months in LA.
Should be moving to Galveston by July.
I hardly travel anymore so I'm not getting the value out of LAX that I used to.

Look me up if you're ever on a cruise out of Galveston.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Y'all are too kind.

There's a "conventional wisdom" rule of thumb I've heard before which says that every time zone you cross takes about 1 day to adjust. I don't really buy that per se but, I find that it takes about 2-3 days to adjust each way.

During the 2010s, I was traveling between Sydney and San Francisco for work about 5-6 times a year with occasional trips to South Asia and Europe.

I had a system worked out like this for Eastbound across the International Data Line:
Before I would leave for San Francisco, I would get as tired as I could. Whether it was staying out late with friends or staying up late getting everything ready before my trip (paying bills, packing clothes, etc.), or wrapping up projects I needed to finish before my trip.

This allowed me to carry that sleep debt on the plane with me for the 14-15 hour flight to the USA. It's very important that you stay hydrated and eat regularly too.

The one crutch I would use was pre-flight alcohol consumption. I would hit the airline lounge and slam 4 of the highest strength beers I could find (maybe only 3 if it was the Air New Zealand Lounge because they stock good beers). This strategy assured that as soon as I sat down in my seat and they pushed back from the gate, I was out like a light for 90+ minutes at the start of the flight. Then they would serve a meal. Eat it.

After that, it was a mix of watching movies, sleeping, the occasional tour of the airplane, walking around the Economy cabin.

Still on Day 1 because of the International Date Line, you arrive in the USA in the morning (before you left) and it was usually midday by the time I had the rental car and had cleared the airport. I never had any problem going out and running around doing stuff until supper time. After that, you're at a point where your body is starting to wake up for the next day but you've got to go to sleep. If you're tired enough, you should be able to get to bed before midnight. If not, I might drink a few more heavy beers in the hotel bar to help knock me out.

• That's Day 1. You go to bed a good 30 hours after you woke up that morning (on paper)

What you have to watch out for is what I call, "the whip" which happens on Day 3.

• Day 2, you wake up at a semi-normal time in the new time zone. You have to get out of bed and get going on that new day. Do not sleep past 10am. Go about your day, take your meals at the regular lunch and dinner times. Force yourself to go to bed before midnight. You can use some alcohol if you want to. But you have to resist the temptation to stay out late.
• Day 3, you're up at 6am, ready to go to work. This is where it gets dangerous. You run though the day on adrenaline and after dinner that evening, your body decides that two days of trickery is enough and it's going to force you to revert to your Day 0 time zone. So what happens for me is that I can't get to sleep that night. I'll be up until 4am and wake up at 6am to get ready for Day 4 on 2 hours sleep.
• Day 4, power through that day, crash hard that evening, sleep for 8-10 hours and you'll be right as rain for Day 5.

Now reverse the course for the Westbound travel across the International Date Line.

For Australia, the flights leave in the evening between 10pm - midnight.
I realize the Japan flights leave midday. Back in Feb. 2020, I flew from IAH-NRT on ANA where we left about 10:30 am and arrived about 4:30 pm the next day.

You'll want to be carrying that sleep deficit so you can get some sleep on the flight.
For Australia flights, I'd pound a few beers, enough to knock me out but not so many that I got knocked out before I boarded the plane.
For Japan, things are pretty normal time wise so no need to try to fall asleep right away.

Same mix of movies, sleep, eat, drink, explore the cabin.

• Day 1 - the day you departed the USA
• Day 2 (or Day 3 if going to Australia. Because of the International Date Line and the late departure from the US, Day 2 never happens) - the day you arrive in the Eastern Hemisphere. On Day 2, the main thing is that you must force yourself to remain awake until 7pm at the bare minimum. 10pm is preferable. Your body is acclimated to US time so it's going to want to start going to sleep early in the afternoon. You must push through that.
• Day 3 - you should be able to wake up at a normal time and proceed through a normal day resisting the urge to go to sleep in the afternoon.
• Day 4 - you should be fully adjusted to the new time zone.

One point of interest in doing this today versus a few years ago, with the limited flights these days, you're probably going to be on a 787 for the long haul which is a good thing. The 787 pressurizes the cabin at 6,000 ft elevation instead of 7,000 feet elevation like you'd find on the older 777 or effectively defunct 747s. Sounds trivial but it does make a difference.

That's my long winded written explanation of how I handle the time adjustment when traveling across the International Date Line. Hope that helps.

In my experience as described here, it is much easier to travel Westbound than it is to travel Eastbound.

---

Solid information here. My experience is completely from flying vs riding that long, so how I handle ground time is a bit different. I've found that if you're tired coming OFF the flight, I can grab a few hours when the Relief Officer is sitting in for me, that an 18 hour hard crash will completely reset my body clock. That trick works in either direction. Since I'm just flying or relaxing through life, it's a bit easier to get that huge reset sleep. Otherwise, I Forest Gump it for a few days: sleep when I'm tired, eat when I'm hungry……

I've covered 36 time zones on a two week trip. Used to do 9/year or so. Only ever recovered when on vacation three other months, not in a row. It's scary easy for Stockholm Syndrome to settle in with fatigue. I would never realize how messed up my body was until I had the time to fully reset. The 1 day per zone change is a solid one. I don't do much, if any, booze on the road anymore. Messes up my sleep quality too much. I'm sure some of you are covering for me. :-)

Hydration is huge, being in better shape doesn't hurt either. I usually can't sleep more than 3 hours in a plane and that's in the full size bed we have on the upper deck of my 747 as a rest area. Not being able to sleep sitting up nearly at all is a major hindrance to rest for me when I am a pax on a flight.

The lower cabin elevation definitely makes a difference on the 787. I notice that when at my place in Summit County that sits at nearly 9000'.

HTH

Keep in mind, I'm a civilian. Travel allows me to do my job globally while in your case, travel is your job.

It's pretty funny that they pressurize the cabin to a lower altitude than the altitude where you live.

As a frequent long haul Economy class occupant, I learned to sleep sitting up without reclining my seat and these days I find it pretty comfortable. In fact, that helped me get through the bad Los Angeles Covid in December 2020.

I've also learned when sitting in an aisle seat to sleep with my arms folded across my chest Tutankhamun style. That way my elbows don't protrude into the next seat and I don't get hit by the service cart - as much anyway.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Keep in mind, I'm a civilian. Travel allows me to do my job globally while in your case, travel is your job.

It's pretty funny that they pressurize the cabin to a lower altitude than the altitude where you live.

As a frequent long haul Economy class occupant, I learned to sleep sitting up without reclining my seat and these days I find it pretty comfortable. In fact, that helped me get through the bad Los Angeles Covid in December 2020.

I've also learned when sitting in an aisle seat to sleep with my arms folded across my chest Tutankhamun style. That way my elbows don't protrude into the next seat and I don't get hit by the service cart - as much anyway.

---

What's your preferred long haul coach seat, aisle or window? Both have their obvious pros and cons (you just mentioned my main aisle con, but I hate the feeling of being trapped I get when I have a window seat.)

Counterpoint said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Keep in mind, I'm a civilian. Travel allows me to do my job globally while in your case, travel is your job.

It's pretty funny that they pressurize the cabin to a lower altitude than the altitude where you live.

As a frequent long haul Economy class occupant, I learned to sleep sitting up without reclining my seat and these days I find it pretty comfortable. In fact, that helped me get through the bad Los Angeles Covid in December 2020.

I've also learned when sitting in an aisle seat to sleep with my arms folded across my chest Tutankhamun style. That way my elbows don't protrude into the next seat and I don't get hit by the service cart - as much anyway.

---

What's your preferred long haul coach seat, aisle or window? Both have their obvious pros and cons (you just mentioned my main aisle con, but I hate the feeling of being trapped I get when I have a window seat.)

---

Personally, I sleep better in a window seat since I can prop up against the wall. Im a side sleeper at home. I also might need to get up once a flight and usually do that when someone else on the row does. Also means I'm probably not hydrating enough.

I went to Vegas last week on Southwest. To me it's well worth the $50 to upgrade to 1-15. Most of the fleet now have TWO special seats with no seat in front of them. I'm reasonably tall so those seats are worth every penny to me. And since the clubs and suitcase fly free, it's really a wash.

I'll do a window seat on the right side of the aircraft on flights less that 3 or 4 hours or so that you can ride out without getting up to piss. Can usually get some sleep leaning the bulkhead. If you don't have someone in that middle seat and can stretch your legs out, that's the best you are gonna get in economy, imo.

Tryin to game an open middle seat is a gamble though. Sometimes it can back fire and when it does, you typically get stuck with somebody they assigned a seat to at the last minute. Which most times isn't ideal.

For long haul on wide body, I've been doing middle row aisle, just to be able to get up walk around and piss at my leisure. I think the key is to not get dehydrated and thats a pain in the ass to get up if you squeezed into window seat.

Front row transverse bulkhead are a no go because you don't have a fold down tray table.

Also I stay away from front section in economy because of the bassinet seats at the front and proximity to a baby, generally.

Last I'll look at proximity to the lavatory. Try to get a safe distance from any lavatory because I don't want people congregating in the Aisle or slamming the door near anywhere near where I'm at. On 777 I stay towards the back middle. The back lavatories are typically better and there's an open area back there where you can stand up for a while and not be in the way. Prefer A330 over 787. Prefer 777 over A380.

Thats my general sop as developed by trial and error over the years

I've posted long haul seat selection on here before but as a general rule, I like to be first Economy Plus section on United on a 787 or 777. Premium Economy on a Singapore A350.

Qantas and Singapore A380, I like upstairs back of the plane Economy section because most people don't know it exists so, it's usually lightly packed.

When I had Gold status on Qantas (actually, I still do b/c they extended it from 2019 through 2024), they would block out the seat next to me unless the aircraft was genuinely sold out. Of course these days all the flights are completely full so all the old middle seat game theory strategies are out the window.

But yeah, I like at least 5 rows from the front of the section and at least 4 rows ahead of the lavatory / galley.
Also, I like the inside section aisle seat. I prefer to be on the right side of the plane just because I enjoy seeing letters like JKL on my boarding pass rather than ABC (yes, I'm still a child sometimes, dreaming of those long haul flights from JFK - Dhahran, KSA).

Counterpoint said:

---

What's your preferred long haul coach seat, aisle or window? Both have their obvious pros and cons (you just mentioned my main aisle con, but I hate the feeling of being trapped I get when I have a window seat.)

---

I've was always a window seat guy since I was a kid. I've always loved looking out the window when we're over "flyover country", or trying to guess what country you might be over when you're flying 14 hours nonstop from JFK "home" to Saudi Arabia.

Living in Australia was different because you're over water for about 13.5 hours of the 14+ hour flight from LAX. So there's not as much reward for a window seat. Flying 8 hours from Sydney to Singapore is pretty cool though.

My short story is this... I had been on a long 2 week trip to my corporate office in Santa Clara, CA and I was headed home to Sydney via LAX. I was about 42 years old (so about 10 years ago) and I slammed 4 big beers at the crappy Mexican restaurant in the pre-remodel Tom Bradley terminal.

I grabbed my window seat and did my standard crash asleep during takeoff and I woke up about 2 hours later. I needed to go to the bathroom but I was also wiped out from my 2 weeks of work in the Bay Area. The two guys in the middle and aisle were big guys and I decided to watch a few movies hoping they would wake up and I could use the facilities.

I watched a few movies and my bladder kept reminding me that I needed to go to the bathroom. I was in that window seat for 9 1/2 hours before I had the opportunity to get up and use the lav. It wasn't the worst I've ever needed to go but it was pretty bad. The worst was driving back to College Station when I was late getting back before we had to check-in at the dorms and I needed to pee badly since about Marlin.

I had to come to the realization that I was now in my 40s and I was becoming an old man. I realized I had enough airline status that I could sit anywhere I wanted and being stuck in the window seat for 9 1/2 hours was really my fault. So, I decided I would become an aisle guy.

Next trip, I grabbed an aisle seat and this little old Filipino lady sitting next to me tried to get me to trade for her middle seat because she said she needed to go to the bath room a lot. I said NO but I told her that I was willing to get up and let her go to the bathroom as frequently as she needed. Wound up being about 10 times during the 14 hours but, I was glad to do it.

Later, I figured out that the internal section middle seats are the last place anybody really wants to sit so, I moved to the aisle seat in the middle section. The added bonus is that I also got more overhead bin space. And the other bonus of the aisle seat is that I didn't have to get all of my gear out - headphones, laptop, chargers, etc. before I sat down. Sitting in the aisle, I could stand up and walk around at any time and also take 5 minutes to dig stuff out of my backpack if I need to.

So, inside section, aisle seat and never looked back.

The only time this strategy is actually a hassle is in certain Business Class seating configs where there's a 2-4-2 configuration because the inside seat person will still have to climb over you to get out. Although with a lot of the Business Class pod type seating they've minimized some of that.

Thanks!

I had a friend who worked for Continental and one of his side jobs was to taste food and drinks at different pressures. He said it was great fun.

IAD (Wash DC) to Sydney via LAX was about 20 hours. I slept in 5 hour shifts. Did business class on Virgin Australia. No way I was flying that far in coach.

All the flights longer than 5 hours are long, everything longer than 10 - too long. My last long flight was from Dubai airport to Kochi International with the Emirates and must admit those guys know how to provide a decent service. India itself is a nice country and there is no hustle with the visa (application can be done online here https://visa-to-india.com/), but i am not sure i want to go back there one day.

As an old fart 4-5 hours is probably my breaking point in coach these days.

If I'm in economy, I'm also trying to figure out which seat has a highest likelihood of having an empty seat next to it. If you got an empty seat next to you, that's probably as good as you are gonna to get.

So that's the goal. Find the best seat with the highest likelihood of having nobody sitting next to you.

So essentially you are picking a row with someone already in the aisle or window seat in hopes that the middle seat goes unused.

So pick the seat next to the seat you think will be the last seat on the airplane to be filled.