***Official Houston Astros 2022-23 Offseason Thread***

1,071,997 Views | 12340 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Beat40
BMX Bandit
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yep. guidelines specifically say its not a requirement.

Quote:

Dear Voter:
There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
tjack16
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AG
Ag_07 said:

You celebrate division titles.

It's a LONG season and winning the division is an accomplishment no matter what happens in the playoffs.


See idk about that. I'd have a hard time celebrating a 2022 division title if let's say the mariners had beaten us in the ALDS.

I guess in the long term you look back with pride on it, but in the moment it would be rough
Ag_07
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So what are supposed to do? Hold off on the celebration to see how far you go then decide if it's worth celebrating later on? At the time you don't know how far you'll go.

In that case why even celebrate ALDS or ALCS wins. Why celebrate anything unless you win the WS?
bek.90
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AG

Never mind.
tjack16
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Ag_07 said:

So what are supposed to do? Hold off on the celebration to see how far you go then decide if it's worth celebrating later on? At the time you don't know how far you'll go.

In that case why even celebrate ALDS or ALCS wins. Why celebrate anything unless you win the WS?


That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying in the off-season do you celebrate and brag about it? It's an off-season topic. Like I always Laughed when A's fans would brag before 2021 that they were the division champs.

When you win it in September, yeah for sure celebrate. My question is during the off-season do you still brag or consider your team champs of the division if a division rival eliminated you or advanced further in the playoffs.
EastCoastAgNc
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Karma hitting Cody
Farmer1906
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iamtheglove said:

Astros have shown the desire to buy out years of arbitration to extend the year free agency hits for star players (Bregman, Lance, Yordan).

How would you prioritize the following players for buyout and extend deals? Let's say you could only afford to do 2 deals this year?

And what would you do if you didn't address any of those players this year but you did after next season?

Tucker (3 years of arbitration left)
Framber (3 years of arb)
Javier (3 years of arb)
Urquidy (3 years of arb)
Luis (4 years - 1 of pre arb, 3 of arb)
Pena (5 plus years - 2 of pre arb, at least 3 of arb)
TED is the #1 option for me by a long shot. The problem is I don't think Crane is going to give him anything that much bigger than what Yordan got, but in reality, Tucker probably needs 6/160 to even consider pushing his free agent year from age 29 to 32. Assume his arbitration years are worth ~40 M total. He basically needs to agree to 3/120 to get his prime of 29, 30, and 31.

Framber is a bit trickier. He's old for a guy hitting arbitration for the first time. Compare him to LMJ. Lance broke in the bigs in 2015. He's 29 now. Just 1 year older than Framber. I don't know if that means Framber is more willing to take money early so he can finally get some cheddar cheese or does he think he cannot afford to push his free agency out from age 32. Any older and he basically eliminated himself from ever getting a mega deal. If he's willing, I would love to tack on a year or 3 to him. I think he'll age well with his build and pitching style.

Javier has been very good, but he still hasn't shown he's a top-of-the-rotation arm just yet. I think that is mainly due to how he's been used (moved back and forth between rotation & bullpen) so now may be time to strike before he puts up a 5+ WAR season.

Urquidy & Garica don't strike as types that need to be extended. I think you let them play out.

I proposed the Pena super early extension a few weeks ago. We've seen teams do it (Rays, Padres, Mariners, Braves) for their young stars, but I think it's clear Pena is a step down from them (Julio, Tatis types) based on the larger sample size of the regular season. If a deal could get done, it would not be for crazy AAV because he's got 5 years left and isn't close to a superstar yet. BUT he has shown you a 3.4-4.8 WAR season. That's likely the floor. I think a ~4 WAR SS is worth hanging on to. As he's a bit older too, just adding 1-2 years would be ideal. That way we can have Pena for age 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31. I think something like 7/80 would make some sense.
Beat40
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ScapeGOAT said:

I'm in the camp that thinks Ohtani should've won. He was elite at the plate and on the mound. But BBWAA has been messed up for a long time in voting. It's nothing new.

In 2000, Todd Helton led MLB in RBI, BA, SLG, and OPS, and led the NL in WAR, H, and OBP, while playing Gold Glove 1B, and received 0 1st place votes.

The system has sucked for awhile.

So, I'm not, and here's why: WAR.

From what I see on baseball reference:
- Overall WAR - Judge 1st at 10.6; Ohtani 2nd at 9.6
- Pitching WAR - Alcantara 1st at 8.0; Ohtani 3rd at 6.2
- Offensive WAR - Judge 1st at 10.4; Ohtani isn't even in the top 10.

From what I see on Fangraphs:
- Overall WAR - Judge 1st at 11.4; Ohtani 2nd at 9.5
- Pitching WAR - Nola 1st at 6.3; Ohtani 6th at 5.6
- Offensive WAR - Judge 1st at 11.4; Ohtani isn't even in the top 10.

Even with pitching and offense, Judge still bests him in WAR. I think the voters got it right.

Ohtani is clearly the most talented player in MLB. I really enjoy watching him play.
Farmer1906
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AG
When you say "offensive WAR" do you just mean WAR for position players? That covers a lot that isn't offense.
Farmer1906
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EastCoastAgNc said:


Karma hitting Cody
This is LA thinking with their heart.

Last 2 seasons:
.193 BA
.256 OBP
.355 SLG
.266 wOBA
69 wRC+
7.7% BB%
27.1% K%

Why would anyone ever consider paying this type of player 18-20 M?
Beat40
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Farmer1906 said:

When you say "offensive WAR" do you just mean WAR for position players? That covers a lot that isn't offense.
Just going with the heading on baseball reference. According to them that means "everything but fielding."

On Fangraphs, the headings are Bat WAR, Pit WAR, Total War. I just sorted highest to lowest on Bat WAR. They don't have a definition, but I also assume it's "everything but fielding."
Farmer1906
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texasaggie2015
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What? Winning a division title over a 162 game season is absolutely something to be proud of and celebrate. The season is an effing grind.
Beat40
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Sucks it took winning the WS this year for people to start defending Altuve. Sucks it takes the words of Dusty to get people to look at Altuve differently.

I know it's thinking with my heart, but I don't want to see him play with any other organization. I really hope Altuve doesn't try to hang on too long once he's lost it so it doesn't force the organization to pay for poor performance just to keep him a lifetime Astro.
tjack16
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AG


This is pretty sweet
tjack16
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texasaggie2015 said:

What? Winning a division title over a 162 game season is absolutely something to be proud of and celebrate. The season is an effing grind.


Read what I said again. My point is if you are a Braves fan, are you bragging to Phillies fans and saying "2022 division champs!"… when they are the team that beat you in the playoffs and won the pennant. I'd rather be the Phillies in that situation.

My post was directly pointing to if you are eliminated by a division foe in the playoffs it takes away the glory of that division title. Like how we beat the A's after they won the division. To me I don't even consider the a's to be Al west champs when I think back on 2020 because we eliminated them in the playoffs.
Beat40
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Yeah, it's pretty badass. $80.
Kashchei
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Ag_07 said:

So what are supposed to do? Hold off on the celebration to see how far you go then decide if it's worth celebrating later on? At the time you don't know how far you'll go.

In that case why even celebrate ALDS or ALCS wins. Why celebrate anything unless you win the WS?


So, basically me this postseason?
irish pete ag06
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Farmer1906 said:


I'm already getting angry at the peckerwood sports writers who are going to try to shun him out of the HoF in the next decade or 2 later.
Prosperdick
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astros4545 said:

Prosperdick said:

lil99chris said:

Mr.Bond said:

Judge not being unanimous is pretty ridiculous

The two LA voters felt Ohtani was a better selection.

Quote:

Angels beat writer Sam Blum, of The Athletic, and L.A.-based Associated Press writer Greg Beacham were the only two voters to pick Ohtani.

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/11/17/angels-shohei-ohtani-finishes-2nd-to-yankees-aaron-judge-for-al-mvp/

Those two idiots should have their voter rights revoked. When your team finishes 33 games out of first place nobody on your team should be considered for the award.


Then they need to update the award to saying MVP of a first place team only
Not necessarily first place but your team has to at least make the playoffs. They have awards like silver slugger and gold gloves that don't take into account the team accomplishment but at the end of the day, it's a team sport and it's all about winning, and the MVP should take into account whether your team won or not.
Mr.Bond
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Farmer1906 said:





I love Jose altuve
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

WES2006AG
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irish pete ag06 said:

Farmer1906 said:


I'm already getting angry at the peckerwood sports writers who are going to try to shun him out of the HoF in the next decade or 2 later.
I don't usually get too worked up about these things but even thinking about this possibility makes my blood boil. Even more reason to be pissed that MLB singled us out for something that was clearly widespread.
cone
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widespread
bigjag19
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Anyone want to join me in America club seating tomorrow?
FredMc92
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Prosperdick said:

astros4545 said:

Prosperdick said:

lil99chris said:

Mr.Bond said:

Judge not being unanimous is pretty ridiculous

The two LA voters felt Ohtani was a better selection.

Quote:

Angels beat writer Sam Blum, of The Athletic, and L.A.-based Associated Press writer Greg Beacham were the only two voters to pick Ohtani.

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/11/17/angels-shohei-ohtani-finishes-2nd-to-yankees-aaron-judge-for-al-mvp/

Those two idiots should have their voter rights revoked. When your team finishes 33 games out of first place nobody on your team should be considered for the award.


Then they need to update the award to saying MVP of a first place team only
Not necessarily first place but your team has to at least make the playoffs. They have awards like silver slugger and gold gloves that don't take into account the team accomplishment but at the end of the day, it's a team sport and it's all about winning, and the MVP should take into account whether your team won or not.



Wait until you hear about this guy called Mike Trout!
Moe Jzyslak
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AG
And Ted Williams
jkag89
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Prosperdick said:

lil99chris said:

Mr.Bond said:

Judge not being unanimous is pretty ridiculous

The two LA voters felt Otani was a better selection.

Quote:

Angels beat writer Sam Blum, of The Athletic, and L.A.-based Associated Press writer Greg Beacham were the only two voters to pick Ohtani.

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/11/17/angels-shohei-ohtani-finishes-2nd-to-yankees-aaron-judge-for-al-mvp/

Those two idiots should have their voter rights revoked. When your team finishes 33 games out of first place nobody on your team should be considered for the award.
If I had a vote it would have definitely gone to Judge but I can also see a solid case for Otani. It is arguable that he had a better season than last year when he won the MVP and this year's Angels team was not significantly worse than last year's, maybe a bigger disappointment due to a good start in '22 but overall about the same sort of season.
Deluxe
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EastCoastAgNc said:


Karma hitting Cody
The guys who were most outspoken about the "cheating scandal" were the ones who stood the most to lose by MLB cracking down on their sign-stealing schemes.
jkag89
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ScapeGOAT said:

And Ted Williams
Ted won two MVPs; 1946, the BoSox won the AL Pennant and 1949 when they finished only a game back of the Damn Yankees.
tjack16
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Big change in Minnesota
EastCoastAgNc
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tjack16 said:



Big change in Minnesota
Clearly no one told them that all T's in logos need bevels
Mathguy64
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tjack16 said:



Big change in Minnesota


I bet that redesign cost them $100k in design fees.
Johnsy3
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I dig the Twin Cities uniform but the Marlins "M" hats are dumb
Ag_07
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Look like they're wearing Marlins hats.
cc10106
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Deluxe said:

EastCoastAgNc said:


Karma hitting Cody
The guys who were most outspoken about the "cheating scandal" were the ones who stood the most to lose by MLB cracking down on their sign-stealing schemes.
Yeah but don't forget Joe Kelly has a painting on a wall somewhere in LA for his amazing heroism.

Re: Bellinger, I doubt the baseball gods think fondly of hypocrites. Good thing he could barely hit in the World Series against Houston.
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