***Official Houston Astros 2021 Season Thread***

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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 9:18a, 6/16/21
AG
That only counts for so much. Look at the bodies the Astros have left behind.

Sale, Kershaw, Jansen, Davish, Kluber, Bauer, Glasnow, Snell, Chapman, CC, etc. These guys are the 2 most dominant bullpen arms over the last decade-plus almost double-digit Cy Youngs between that group.

I'll add a couple more of the guys he faced and as a team didn't touch up - Scherzer, Strasburg, Price, Corbin, Cueto, and I'm probably forgetting some.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 9:30a, 6/16/21
AG
I know. I'm just saying there were three seasons there that were the smallest of sample sizes. And those teams didn't have nearly the stacked roster to pick them up. Those Dome teams played a different brand of ball from the team today.

Post season stats are misleading sometimes. There is a certain OF that I suspect you know well that went .200/.333/.200 in his. That doesn't diminish his career.
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aggiedoc09
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9:32a, 6/16/21
AG
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safety guy
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 9:56a, 6/16/21
AG
Mathguy64 said:
I know Biggio and Bagwell get ripped for those postseasons but to be fair they were facing the the Atlanta gauntlet early and Kevin Brown in that rigged Padres series. A 3 or 4 game string against those pitchers is hard to judge a hitter on. And in 2004/05 Biggio had much better postseason.

His 1997 and 1998 seasons were massive. The 97 season with no GIDPs and 34 HBPs wasn't really understood until Bill James broke it down.


I get sick of comments about the facing the Braves pitching or Kevin Brown. We did not have a winning mentality in those years. Sure the Braves had great pitching. Did that stop the Marlins from winning in 97 (a little help from Eric Gregg). Kevin Brown?? Another Astros loser excuse. We had Randy Johnson. The Astros lost game 1 to Brown and had him out of the game in the 7th inning of a tied game in game 3. It's not like he pitched 3 complete game shutouts. It wasn't until the Astros got Clemens and Petitte that they got a winning attitude.
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astros4545
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In reply to safety guy • 10:08a, 6/16/21
AG
safety guy said:
Mathguy64 said:
I know Biggio and Bagwell get ripped for those postseasons but to be fair they were facing the the Atlanta gauntlet early and Kevin Brown in that rigged Padres series. A 3 or 4 game string against those pitchers is hard to judge a hitter on. And in 2004/05 Biggio had much better postseason.

His 1997 and 1998 seasons were massive. The 97 season with no GIDPs and 34 HBPs wasn't really understood until Bill James broke it down.


I get sick of comments about the facing the Braves pitching or Kevin Brown. We did not have a winning mentality in those years. Sure the Braves had great pitching. Did that stop the Marlins from winning in 97 (a little help from Eric Gregg). Kevin Brown?? Another Astros loser excuse. We had Randy Johnson. The Astros lost game 1 to Brown and had him out of the game in the 7th inning of a tied game in game 3. It's not like he pitched 3 complete game shutouts. It wasn't until the Astros got Clemens and Petitte that they got a winning attitude.
Sterling Hitchcock is one of the greats of all time though
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The Beef01
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In reply to Daniel Kaffee • 10:11a, 6/16/21
AG
Daniel Kaffee said:
Ag_07 said:
ClickClack said:
Real pros on the rangers broadcast, as usual.


Brett Dolan is such a chode.


You're thinking of Dave Raymond.
Yeah, I always get them mixed-up.

One of them I've heard doing sports updates for one of the stations in town...the other had decided to devote his career to being a troll for the Rangers while they've sucked and the Astros have been in the ALCS 4-straight years.

In other words, one decided to be a professional and rehabilitate his career after being removed from the organization...the other decided to be bitter and go make sure his career ends in Arlington (they'll eventually axe him too and he'll be done after that).
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bluefire579
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In reply to Ag_07 • 10:34a, 6/16/21
AG
Ag_07 said:
ClickClack said:
Real pros on the rangers broadcast, as usual.


Brett Dolan is such a chode.

He's the furthest thing from a professional broadcaster there is.

Such a perfect fit for that shlt hole of an organization.

Can't fathom how we at one time employed that loser. Shows just how far we've come with the crack shot team we have in the booth now.
He was awful when he was our radio guy, and it's clear he hasn't gotten any better since the day we sacked him. He certainly has grown more bitter toward us, though
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EastCoastAgNc
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10:46a, 6/16/21
AG
https://sportstalk790.iheart.com/featured/sean-salisbury/content/2021-06-16-astros-gm-james-click-speaks-on-the-astros-winning-and-resilience/
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Ag_07
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In reply to bluefire579 • 10:53a, 6/16/21
AG
I guess I did get them mixed up but they're both awful broadcasters.

Raymond is so awfully bad (see last night's call) I don't see how he has a job.
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astros4545
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10:59a, 6/16/21
AG


He's going off
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YNWA_AG
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In reply to astros4545 • 11:03a, 6/16/21
AG
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bearkatag15
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In reply to YNWA_AG • 11:06a, 6/16/21
AG
He needs to have more than "How they used it, I don't know"
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
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TRM
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11:08a, 6/16/21
AG
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n_touch
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11:09a, 6/16/21
Man I have watched baseball for years and knowing know that players cheat has crushed me. I just wish we could go back to the clean game of the 90's
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bearkatag15
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In reply to n_touch • 11:10a, 6/16/21
AG
n_touch said:
Man I have watched baseball for years and knowing know that players cheat has crushed me. I just wish we could go back to the clean game of the 90's
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
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bearkatag15
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11:11a, 6/16/21
AG


calling out a specific player

Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
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agproducer
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11:18a, 6/16/21
AG
Spaeder going off! I love it!

But, MLB won't investigate, I'm sure. I hope he goes scorched earth.
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agproducer
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11:22a, 6/16/21
AG


Yep.
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bluefire579
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In reply to Ag_07 • 11:24a, 6/16/21
AG
Ag_07 said:
I guess I did get them mixed up but they're both awful broadcasters.

Raymond is so awfully bad (see last night's call) I don't see how he has a job.
You're right, and I got it mixed up too. They were both god awful
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W
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11:28a, 6/16/21
AG
has anyone ever asked why the Astros were not doing the sign-stealing in 2016?

that's because the main guy wasn't on the team yet
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n_touch
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In reply to W • 11:35a, 6/16/21
W said:
has anyone ever asked why the Astros were not doing the sign-stealing in 2016?

that's because the main guy wasn't on the team yet
They took the year off. The loss to the Royals in the playoffs was a bitter pill to swallow. They needed 2016 to regroup and let Carlos get his head right for the WS in 2017.
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Beerosch
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11:56a, 6/16/21
AG
So given all that, MLB likely knowing. Why were the Astros singled out?
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Beerosch • 12:00p, 6/16/21
AG
Because we did it well. We took a deal to talk. No one else followed. They all got on their high horse.
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safety guy
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12:00p, 6/16/21
AG
I've said it on a number of threads on different sports. If you want purity in sports, go watch a kids t ball game because it degenerates after that. Rules, both written and unwritten are bent, broken and stomped on at all levels. I've just accepted it and moved on. I enjoy the sports for entertainment. But the Astros are taking the public heat because they beat the media darlings - Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers. And they beat them at their own game.
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n_touch
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In reply to Beerosch • 12:02p, 6/16/21
Beerosch said:
So given all that, MLB likely knowing. Why were the Astros singled out?

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Texaggie7nine
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In reply to Beerosch • 12:11p, 6/16/21
Beerosch said:
So given all that, MLB likely knowing. Why were the Astros singled out?
7nine
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Deluxe
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12:14p, 6/16/21
AG
Unfortunately our case had a perfect storm of three things that Spaeder's accusations don't:

1. A rat willing to go on record and put his name behind the accusation
2. Clear video/audio proof of our scheme
3. Clear proof that we continued using our scheme after Manfred issued his memo

Spaeder's tweets will go quietly into the night unless at least 1-2 of the above come to fruition.
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SquirrellyDan
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12:35p, 6/16/21
AG
Kyle Tucker's XBA (Expected Batting Avg) is .330, third highest in the league vs. an actual batting avg of .268. If water finds its level, dude is going to have a great second half.

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Farmer1906
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In reply to SquirrellyDan • 12:37p, 6/16/21
AG
It already been happening.

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SquirrellyDan
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 12:43p, 6/16/21
AG
Surprisingly, amongst players with 200+ PA, he's not the worst when it comes to expected vs. actual (Freddy Freeman). Baseball Savant is an amazing website.
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MosesHallRAB04
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In reply to Beerosch • 12:54p, 6/16/21
AG
Beerosch said:
So given all that, MLB likely knowing. Why were the Astros singled out?


Beating the redsox, yankees and Dodgers on the way.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to SquirrellyDan • 12:54p, 6/16/21
AG
I'll believe that. Freddie didn't just forget how to hit.

Also, that site is amazing. I've been using it for a while now and still find new things.
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Beat40
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In reply to Beerosch • 12:58p, 6/16/21
Beerosch said:
So given all that, MLB likely knowing. Why were the Astros singled out?
Because that's what baseball historically does. I encourage you to listen to The Edge: Houston Astros podcast by Ben Reiter. One of the last episodes talks about the history of baseball and how major scandals they hung around a team or a few people.

I mean, look at the steroid scandal. Who did they hang the scandal on? Big name guys at the end of their careers who made all their money and low level players. None of the stars in their prime got busted.

People are posting that it's because we beat the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees. I think it's simpler than that:

1) Manfred decided to only investigate one team at a time. He offered immunity and our guys basically told all. He didn't start looking into the Red Sox until it there was too much evidence from the testimony of our players that Cora was up to stuff. Then, while doing the investigation, he issued the punishment for the Astros, which all the Red Sox players saw and decided that type of punishment wasn't worth talking, especially knowing they did it in 2018 also. As a result, he really only had concrete first hand evidence of one team.

2) Manfred had issued a warning regarding technology earlier in 2017. Keeping the heavy punishment to essentially one team also prevents Manfred from looking powerless. Admitting more than just the Astros (they said the Red Sox was only one guy) would be Manfred admitting that his 2017 warning did nothing.

I think the factors above contributed to it all getting hung around the Astros more so than beating the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees.
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Farmer1906
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12:59p, 6/16/21
AG
You love to see it.

With MLB set to police substances, Astros pitchers don't appear to be as culpable as some.

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Beat40
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:02p, 6/16/21
Farmer1906 said:
You love to see it.

With MLB set to police substances, Astros pitchers don't appear to be as culpable as some.

I do love to see it. Though I wonder what the breaking stuff looks like.
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