EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Dusty said Gurriel wasn't available and he's going to try to avoid using Alvarez tomorrow.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

Asked how much longer this team can continue playing with a two-man bench, Dusty Baker gave a deep sigh and replied "I don't know, man." https://t.co/PQgNJ9XSkB

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

The mismanagement of this team all around (from there front office to dusty) is laughable.

---

How is that mismanagement? You got an inside source on their true health?

So is TOFA no longer a thing? Are we back to rally Kate?

Yes it's mismanaging. You can't really believe having a two-man bench is sustainable. They should've gone on the 10 day IL so you can have a full bench.

agdaddy04 said:

---

Yes it's mismanaging. You can't really believe having a two-man bench is sustainable. They should've gone on the 10 day IL so you can have a full bench.

---

And exactly who did you want to bring up? And specifically how do you think they will be able to help?

Asked how much longer this team can continue playing with a two-man bench, Dusty Baker gave a deep sigh and replied "I don't know, man." https://t.co/PQgNJ9XSkB

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

FredMc92 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Dusty said Gurriel wasn't available and he's going to try to avoid using Alvarez tomorrow.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

Asked how much longer this team can continue playing with a two-man bench, Dusty Baker gave a deep sigh and replied "I don't know, man." https://t.co/PQgNJ9XSkB

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

The mismanagement of this team all around (from there front office to dusty) is laughable.

---

How is that mismanagement? You got an inside source on their true health?

---

It's mis-management because the kid has already missed enough games to cover 5 days of an IL stint, and according to the manager, he's about to miss his 6th. He's a dead spot on the 26 man roster. Why is he not in the IL retroactively at this point? As far as who to call up, I don't know. Pick somebody. Anybody. They'll only play in an emergency anyway.

Click is in so far over his head here. We never should have hired someone with 0 experience to learn on the job. He'll waste any chance this core has of winning big.

---

So, it's mis-management because they didn't know exactly how long his injury would take to heal?

He was taking BP today, so he might be pretty close.

Are you suggesting they backdate his IL date three days even though he might be ready in two?

And is his replacement on the 40-man already?

I'm always amazed at the arrogance of internet fans that think the front office doesn't take EVERYTHING into consideration, and actually might have more inside knowledge about things than they do. Nope, it can only be because they are in over their heads.

That's not to say they don't make mistakes! I think they'd take back that Cishek decision if given the chance...

Okay, actually looking at the 40-man right now and you're correct - they're screwed. From there the only person you could bring up is Nova, or I guess Toro but it's apparent they don't have much faith in him.

agdaddy04 said:

---

Okay, actually looking at the 40-man right now and you're correct - they're screwed. From there the only person you could bring up is Nova, or I guess Toro but it's apparent they don't have much faith in him.

---

Yeah, I just looked too and came to the same conclusion,

I think Toro just came off the IL a couple of days ago, so it wouldn't surprise me if he finds his way back up to the big leagues if either Alvarez or Yuli just don't look like they are going to heal quickly.

Nova is all the way down in A ball.

FredMc92 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

FredMc92 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Dusty said Gurriel wasn't available and he's going to try to avoid using Alvarez tomorrow.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

Asked how much longer this team can continue playing with a two-man bench, Dusty Baker gave a deep sigh and replied "I don't know, man." https://t.co/PQgNJ9XSkB

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

The mismanagement of this team all around (from there front office to dusty) is laughable.

---

How is that mismanagement? You got an inside source on their true health?

---

It's mis-management because the kid has already missed enough games to cover 5 days of an IL stint, and according to the manager, he's about to miss his 6th. He's a dead spot on the 26 man roster. Why is he not in the IL retroactively at this point? As far as who to call up, I don't know. Pick somebody. Anybody. They'll only play in an emergency anyway.

Click is in so far over his head here. We never should have hired someone with 0 experience to learn on the job. He'll waste any chance this core has of winning big.

---

So, it's mis-management because they didn't know exactly how long his injury would take to heal?

He was taking BP today, so he might be pretty close.

Are you suggesting they backdate his IL date three days even though he might be ready in two?

And is his replacement on the 40-man already?

I'm always amazed at the arrogance of internet fans that think the front office doesn't take EVERYTHING into consideration, and actually might have more inside knowledge about things than they do. Nope, it can only be because they are in over their heads.

That's not to say they don't make mistakes! I think they'd take back that Cishek decision if given the chance...

---

Yes, backdate it. You are allowed to do that back to the last day they played. They already know he won't play tomorrow, so you're giving him at least 3 more days to get right before his 10 days are up.

As far as who to call up, call up Toro. Like I said, he's not gonna play anyway, just need someone who can play defense in case of emergency. Having a 2 man bench is a bad idea. Lets say you have 2 outfielders going for a pop-up, and they smash into each other and get hurt. You have now emptied your entire bench to replace them and possibly have people playing outfield positions who have little to no experience there. If you get another injury in the same game, then you have to stick a pitcher out there. Who knows, based on this weekend, they might provide more value in the field than on the mound.

My point about the front office is that there are very obvious mistakes being made that the previous regime wouldn't have made. If you remember correctly, we all had plenty of complaints about Hinch and Lunhow and how they handled injuries and rest days, but even with their faults, they were leaps and bounds better than the group we have now. Click was basically the Dwight Schrute of the Rays (assistant to the general manager), and we hired him to run the company. The Red Sox got the real prize in Bloom. What has the Rays franchise done in the time he was there in a position of influence? 2017...sub-500 record. 2018...mediocre. 2019...lucked into a wild card and a post-season series with a roster full of "who's-that"s on their team. He comes from a background of crossing your fingers and hoping you get lucky and back into a postseason spot, and the moves that he has made scream that attitude to anyone who is paying attention.

As far as me being an arrogant fan, this is a discussion board. We talk about things here, often quite passionately. We don't have the power to hire / fire / DFA, and with good reason. We'd have a very small roster if we did that and a broke owner. You are misinterpreting passionate and vociferous discussion for arrogance. I can't see how anyone could watch the games this past weekend and be OK with what they saw.

Angels trying to close out the A's in the 9th.

this would get the 'stros even in the loss column again

is he on the 40-man for protection only then?

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

FredMc92 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

FredMc92 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Dusty said Gurriel wasn't available and he's going to try to avoid using Alvarez tomorrow.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

Asked how much longer this team can continue playing with a two-man bench, Dusty Baker gave a deep sigh and replied "I don't know, man." https://t.co/PQgNJ9XSkB

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

The mismanagement of this team all around (from there front office to dusty) is laughable.

---

How is that mismanagement? You got an inside source on their true health?

---

It's mis-management because the kid has already missed enough games to cover 5 days of an IL stint, and according to the manager, he's about to miss his 6th. He's a dead spot on the 26 man roster. Why is he not in the IL retroactively at this point? As far as who to call up, I don't know. Pick somebody. Anybody. They'll only play in an emergency anyway.

Click is in so far over his head here. We never should have hired someone with 0 experience to learn on the job. He'll waste any chance this core has of winning big.

---

So, it's mis-management because they didn't know exactly how long his injury would take to heal?

He was taking BP today, so he might be pretty close.

Are you suggesting they backdate his IL date three days even though he might be ready in two?

And is his replacement on the 40-man already?

I'm always amazed at the arrogance of internet fans that think the front office doesn't take EVERYTHING into consideration, and actually might have more inside knowledge about things than they do. Nope, it can only be because they are in over their heads.

That's not to say they don't make mistakes! I think they'd take back that Cishek decision if given the chance...

---

"Yes, backdate it. You are allowed to do that back to the last day they played. They already know he won't play tomorrow, so you're giving him at least 3 more days to get right before his 10 days are up."

Simple question - do YOU know when Yuli or Alvarez will ready to play? Because if you don't, how can you make a decision on whether or not to put them on the IL? That's arrogance, not passion.

Also, I believe you can backdate them three days. ( https://www.mlb.com/glossary/injuries/10-day-injured-list ), So, that would mean that IF either are ready by Tuesday, you would have them miss an extra 6 games just to have Toro sitting on the bench? Am I reading that right?


"Having a 2 man bench is a bad idea."

Do you really think they don't understand that? Again, arrogance, not passion.


"As far as me being an arrogant fan, this is a discussion board. We talk about things here, often quite passionately. We don't have the power to hire / fire / DFA, and with good reason. We'd have a very small roster if we did that and a broke owner. You are misinterpreting passionate and vociferous discussion for arrogance. I can't see how anyone could watch the games this past weekend and be OK with what they saw."

See, now why would you think I don't have a problem with how this weekend went? I haven't been this down on the Astros in a LONG time, I just don't see how the bullpen gets it together and our starters aren't going to be able to go 8 innings every day like today. I literally have one reliever ( Pressley ) in my circle of trust ( 2 including Javier and maybe 3 with Garcia eventually? )

I sat through the whole Dodger game this week where we gave up nine walks. I swore to walk out if we gave up a tenth - a man has limits.

So, we can agree it's extremely frustrating to be an Astros fan right now.

However, having or not having Toro on the end of the bench for the next week is about number 1000 on the list of reasons to be frustrated with them right now. It's just silly to get worked up over that after a win.

---

the A's are only 8-12 vs. the West division.

having trouble with more than just the Astros

agdaddy04 said:

---

is he on the 40-man for protection only then?

---

I believe so.

Edit: Yup

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/astros-add-five-players-to-40-man-roster

The reports of ZG's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Greinke has come back well after that rough patch. His last 4 starts:

29 IP

2.79 ERA/3.02 FIP

0.86 WHIP

22 K/5 BB

.196/.231/.294 against him

— Landan Kuhlmann (@LandanKuhlmann) May 30, 2021

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

2021 Astros:

Games started by Greinke: 9-3
Games started by anyone else: 19-21

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

This is a crazy stat

---

What I'd like to see is how many of the non - Grienke group had no decision for the starter

redline248 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

2021 Astros:

Games started by Greinke: 9-3
Games started by anyone else: 19-21

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

This is a crazy stat

---

What I'd like to see is how many of the non - Grienke group had no decision for the starter

---

Just a quick glance at baseball reference. Astros starters have 17 of 28 wins, and relievers have 13 of 24 losses.

Edit, It looks like non-Grienke starters have 9 losses, so 10 remaining losses go to the relievers.

redline248 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

2021 Astros:

Games started by Greinke: 9-3
Games started by anyone else: 19-21

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 30, 2021

This is a crazy stat

---

What I'd like to see is how many of the non - Grienke group had no decision for the starter

---

Double check my work, but I have a 12-8 record for non-Greinke starters.

I disagree with your assumptions on arrogance. I think you're assuming a condescending tone on my part which isn't there. My comment about being OK with what we've seen the past week wasn't aimed at you, that was intended as a general statement. None of this is aimed as a personal shot at you or anyone else. We're all frustrated as hell by this past week, so please don't take what I'm saying personally.

On the topic of IL management, I'll try to look at this another way. Yordan was hurt Tuesday. The bullpen implosion started last week, and went on Friday as well. Based off what we saw reported by the media that covered them, he didn't take BP Saturday, after which time the bullpen implosion continued. Since you correctly pointed out the limit on retroactive IL placement is 3 days, he could have been put there Saturday without incurring any longer of a stay than needed. I still have a lot of concerns about only playing with a 2-man bench because of the risks. However, it's possible they could have called up either another bullpen arm. Having another pitcher may not have changed the outcome of the game Saturday or made the end of today's game any less concerning, but it could have helped put less pressure on the bullpen. Dusty was quoted after the game as saying Pressley, Stanek, Raley, and one other unnamed reliever were unavailable. If Scrubb hadn't been able to finish it off, I don't want to think what would have happened with Enoli coming in.

Yes, this is a bit of monday-morning quarterbacking, but it would be nice to see them be more proactive than reactive with their moves. Lunhow/Hinch would proactively put guys on the IL when they had problems (Altuve's knees and lack of strength, Correa's back, etc). As frustrating as that was at the time, it was the right move in the long run. The way this year's leadership has handled Brantley and Yordan seems quite different than how the previous crew would have. It's giving them less flexibility. What makes it more frustrating is it seems like Dusty and Click are not on the same page at times. Chandler pointed this out here:

This organization's communication is comically bad.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 30, 2021

Bulldog73 said:

---

I guess it's clear that chandler doesn't realize he's the communication arm of the organization.

---

Serious question...did the layoffs / furloughs take out significant parts of the PR or media relations department? This seems like something where they'd get them together and say "ok guys, we need to at least present a consistent message". I get things can change in-game (Click's comments were pre-game, Dusty's post-game), but availability is generally something that's known pre-game.

To me one of the biggest issues is the 40 man roster composition - 12 infielders, 4 outfielders, and 1 DH. No real outfield replacements.

Nope

Diaz. Jones can, apparently. Stubbs can if he has to.

It's time to make a trade to open up space.