2021 HOF Class

1,857 Views | 38 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by Mr.Bond
Fuzzy Dunlop
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The newest HOF class will be announced in a few hours.

Are you a big hall or small hall adherent?

Who would you vote for this year?

I am a small hall adherent. I think the HOF is for the greatest ever. I don't think there should be a class every year if the players on the ballot are not worthy.

This year, my only vote would be Curt Schilling. He only has 216 wins which isn't great but his postseason performances I think elevate him to HOF status. However, he's not a player that I think has to absolutely be in the HOF and it won't hurt my feelings if he isn't voted in. The main problem with that is most non-votes will likely be for his political beliefs comments that he has made in the past few years.
PoppaB05
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I like the small Hall and don't think every year should have someone. However, I think Clemens and Bonds have to be in. I understand everything that happened, but you can't have a HOF without them, put the other stuff on the plaque.

I also would consider Wagner and Schilling.
Fuzzy Dunlop
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If you let in Bonds and Clemens, you let in Palmeiro, McGuire, Sosa, etc, and maybe Manny Ramirez in my opinion anyway.

There is no doubt Bonds and Clemens were worthy before the PEDs but I think their final numbers are compromised because of it. They were cheaters. Plain and simple to me.
Beat40
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Fuzzy Dunlop said:

If you let in Bonds and Clemens, you let in Palmeiro, McGuire, Sosa, etc, and maybe Manny Ramirez in my opinion anyway.

There is no doubt Bonds and Clemens were worthy before the PEDs but I think their final numbers are compromised because of it. They were cheaters. Plain and simple to me.
For me, there were the best of an entire era of major cheating.

I think the best way to handle it is to have a separate a section and explain what happened in that era. You put the guys found to have taken steroids in that section.

How do you know Chipper Jones from that era didn't take steroids? Hell, how do you know Biggio or Bagwell didn't? There have been rumors about both of those guys for years. How do you know John Smoltz or other pitchers didn't take steroids from that era?

Bonds and Clemens were the best of an era that was tainted with league wide cheating. They should be in the hall in a section that has "qualifiers" so future kids see the way cheating diminishes your legacy.

Not having a separate section allows us to sweep the entire issue under the rug in 20 years.
Big Al 1992
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Posted on Astros thread

No one gets in.
Schilling missed by 16 votes - largely political
Bonds and Clemens still at 61% - next year is last chance.

No new eligible shoe-ins next year either.
W
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who is the next shoe-in candidate?

Jeter?
W
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remember Bonds is tied to Balco

and he got into an ugly perjury / obstruction of justice case that went on for several years.

the recent steroid era players that have gotten into the Hall...by and large don't have that kind of heavy baggage

07ag
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W said:

who is the next shoe-in candidate?

Jeter?
he got in last year
https://ts.la/eric59704
bluefire579
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W said:

who is the next shoe-in candidate?

Jeter?
Jeter is already in.

Here's a list of upcoming eligible candidates by year: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/future-eligibles

2022:
David Ortiz is probably a shoe-in. A-Rod should be, but steroids and overall douchiness will probably prevent it. You could *maybe* make an argument for Rollins or Tex, but they're probably multi-year guys if either ends up getting in.

2023:
Beltran is here, which will be the first test of the 2017 Astros situation. Don't think anyone else here is really deserving. Maybe Cain after a few years?

2024:
Beltre is a shoe-in. Mauer is a shoe-in, or should be considering he did it as a catcher. Utley and Wright are probably on the bubble.

2025:
Ichiro for sure. Probably CC as well

2026:
Wouldn't put either of these guys in.
Mr.Bond
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Isn't Papi linked to steroids
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


America first, America forever.
Ag4life80
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MLB Network said 16 ballots were sent in blank. BS stunt. Whoever did that should have the honor of being a HOF voter taken from them.
Wagner should be in easily, btw.
bluefire579
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He had a positive test back in the early 200s, but he's very much avoided any sort of heat for it. Obviously claims some kind of excuse for it, but doesn't get the flack others do.
Fuzzy Dunlop
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Jeter is "in". He hasn't been inducted yet because of cancelation last year due to Covid. Eligible players next year include David Ortiz, Tim Lincecum, and Alex Rodriguez.

I think Ortiz is a shoo-in. Arod will probably have the same issues as Bonds and Clemens. He is a known steroid user. It will be interesting to see his vote percentages over the years.
bluefire579
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Ag4life80 said:

MLB Network said 16 ballots were sent in blank. BS stunt. Whoever did that should have the honor of being a HOF voter taken from them.
Wagner should be in easily, btw.
Why? If you don't think anyone in the field should get in, why should you be forced to vote for someone? I disagree with the sentiment, but it's their right as voters.
hawk1689
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Any museum that doesn't include Barry Bonds or Pete Rose but includes Harold Baines and Larry Walker is meaningless.
Fuzzy Dunlop
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I have no problem with blank ballots. If you don't think anyone deserves the honor then by all means, it is your right to return a blank ballot. I like the exclusivity of the baseball HOF. It means more when you don't induct 8 or 10 people every year like the NFL.
W
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I knew I had missed something or forgotten something.

blame it on the COVID
W
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now that Baines is in the Hall...all bets are off for voting criteria...

but I think a strong emphasis belongs on MVP finishes --- how many times were you the best of the best in your league during your career.

Beltran...19 years in MLB...and just one top 5 MVP finish (2006) and only 2 top 10 MVP finishes (2003 & 2006)...and he played 10 years in New York

W
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by contrast..Lance Berkman has four top 5 MVP finishes and two more in the top 10
bluefire579
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Schilling apparently requested to be removed from next year's ballot.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30784823/no-one-elected-baseball-hall-fame-class-2021

Quote:

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot. I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player," Schilling wrote. "I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."
CapCityAg89
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Why is baseball dying? An opportunity to celebrate at least one great player of the game in the aftermath of a crappy year when we need something to celebrate. And they pass. The MLB is and has been through my life, totally tone deaf.
Fuzzy Dunlop
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Ot would be funny if he gets voted in by a large margin next year just for spite.

Reverse psychology!
Fuzzy Dunlop
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Part of me thinks the writers are so enamored of Jeter that they didn't want another class to go in with him. The writers are elitist jack asses for the most part. Which is why I think they will put in Schilling next year is he is still on the ballot.
wangus12
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I'm glad Schilling threw up the middle finger to the voters. Bunch of blowhards. Letting his politics keep him out is so dumb. It isn't the Hall of Honor and the only thing that matter is how you played on the diamond. Same goes for Rose. If your going to start judging personal views, you should probably go back and kick 3/4 of the older guys out of the Hall for most likely being a bunch of racist dudes. Hell, OJ Simpson is still in the NFL Hall and 100% killed 2 people.

Big Al 1992
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Fuzzy Dunlop said:

Part of me thinks the writers are so enamored of Jeter that they didn't want another class to go in with him. The writers are elitist jack asses for the most part. Which is why I think they will put in Schilling next year is he is still on the ballot.


Interesting thought is who gets in with who. Heard someone on MLB network- Costas maybe - say if it's a rogues gallery of questionable HoFers it might it more palatable. Since no one is a shoe in next year, put Clemens and Bonds in the same year. You couldn't put them in next to someone that has done it the "right" way like Jeter.
Panama Red
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Did all of those balls go over the fence? Or were the runs and stats taken away?

Steroids was part of baseball long, long before Bonds and McGwire saved the game in 1998. Yes, they cheated, but it is a part of the history of the game.
hawk1689
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Almost all of them were cheating. If you're going to put Piazza, Biggio, and Pudge in...why not Bonds? Clemens? Sosa? McGwire?
Mr.Bond
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hawk1689 said:

Almost all of them were cheating. If you're going to put Piazza, Biggio, and Pudge in...why not Bonds? Clemens? Sosa? McGwire?



That's incredibly slanderous
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


America first, America forever.
BMX Bandit
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With Pudge, only God knows if he used
safety guy
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My opinion, billy Wagner has no business in the hall. Guy was a big mouth. But on the field, look at his playoff stats. Not that is the be all, end all. But he played a lot of playoff baseball and those stats are not just bad, they're horrific. Granted, he helped teams get there, but when it was best against best - he wasn't it. His best moment was giving up a 3 run bomb to biggio in the 9th which ignited the Astros in 05.
safety guy
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When it comes to ped's and baseball, who really knows who was using and when they were using them. If you were the best of the steroid era, then yeah put them in. As camaniti said, at least half the guys were using. Was he credible? Maybe not but based on what was happening at the time, I don't doubt it.
MtnAg08
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Quote:

When it comes to ped's and baseball, who really knows who was using and when they were using them. If you were the best of the steroid era, then yeah put them in.

This has been my view for a while. There is no way to know who was using and wasn't during that time. Chances are some of the guys already inducted from this era used steroids to some degree at some point. The league obviously knew what was going on and did nothing to curtail it until Caminiti and Canseco went public.

Once Bud Selig, who oversaw the league while this was happening, was inducted by the Veteran's Committee then to me that meant anybody who took steroids prior 2005ish when MLB decided to test and stop it should be in if they are worthy of induction.
hawk1689
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Actually, it's libel. Deep down you know that I'm right.
Mr.Bond
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hawk1689 said:

Actually, it's libel. Deep down you know that I'm right.
Given that you have zero proof or links to it....... not really
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


America first, America forever.
hawk1689
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Mr.Bond said:

hawk1689 said:

Actually, it's libel. Deep down you know that I'm right.
Given that you have zero proof or links to it....... not really


Ahhh. You must be an Astros fan. The old ignore all evidence staring right at you because it's not 100% definitive smoking gun proof.

I could explain to you that people don't bat 700 times six months after major knee surgery in their mid 30's, or get mentioned by name in Jose Canseco's book, or admit to using Andro...but that would be a waste of my time. No, I don't have a video recording of them using steroids.
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