Ag_07 said:

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I'd be more concerned if Luhnow became the Angels GM.

Luhnow with that check book would be a disaster.

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Damn that's a frightening thought. Luckily it doesn't seem likely.

Farmer1906 said:

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tjack16 said:

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Offer Brantley 2 years 30 MM

I feel like that's fair and probably the higher end of his yearly salary options

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In this market, I think he'll be had for more like 2 year 20-22 M or 3 year 30 M. Just my guess.

Whoever said an OF if Brantley, JBJ, & Ted I am all for it. Yordan is your DH and MB gets regular off days to let Straw get some work.

That's gunna blow pretty much all of your FA money so we'll have work on the bullpen very inexpensively.

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That was me - I was just looking at the Spotrac projections and JBJ looked good to me at 1 yr $9M...but you said you doubted he was going to sign a 1 yr deal and I agree...I have read other predictions closer to 2 yrs 16M.

Is he really that much of an upgrade over Marisnick though? What's Jake gonna get? 2-3M per year?

I heard on the radio this morning that they will likely try Tucker in CF.

I'd be OK with Mike, Tucker and a Jake/Straw/some capable FA platoon and take the rest of that money and spend it on pitching. Its not ideal, but you can't have an all-star at every position and at least with Jake you have great defense & maybe Straw figures it out...and its not out of the question that Tucker can be as good a defensive CF as George was.

Quote:

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, but you can't have an all-star at every position

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Sadly that's what we have had most of the last 2 years. Think about it. The best at their positions.

3B Bregs
SS Correa
2B Altuve

CF George
DH Yordan

SP JV
SP Cole

RP Various relievers over the last several years all All Stars

And Yuli, MB were as good as anyone in LF and 1B.

It's crazy just how loaded this team was. And it feels like it's about to be dismantled.

Sorry I read it wrong. Thought you said JBJ not Brantley.

I still think you're right though. One year deals are for old/injured/something to prove guys. JBJ is only 30 and kind of a known commodity at this point.

He's not good enough for a long deal and not crappy enough for a short one. Two or three years.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Springer end up in Detroit. Many were saying he had probably the best relationship with Hinch when he was let go and Springer was not happy with that. Hinch lets him be himself which is a big deal over the course of a 162 game season.

It's easy to say from the outside looking in, but George out of all of them seems like the kind of guy who won't want the big pay day to go to a team that isn't a playoff contender. He's not Trout.

yes, George has only played one season (2014) on a bad team. He's used to winning and being in contention.

the Tigers are 2 or 3 years away

We were supposed to be 2-3 years away in 2017. Just saying it's hard to predict contenders, you have gauge which direction an organization is trending and Detroit is definitely going in the right direction.

Agree with HVille. Also you don't take the PR hit of hiring AJ unless you're serious about winning. A lot of people said Machado would be watching the playoffs on TV in San Diego and look how that turned out.

To be fair, they are going to have to be very good and lucky with their moves in order to mitigate Cabrera's contract and it's definitely not where I'd go if I wanted a chance at a ring in the next 5 years, but George already has a ring and who knows what his motivations are.

iamtheglove said:

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tjack16 said:

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let's assume we don't sign springer at this point just for hypothetical even though it would kill me

Would you be okay with this as an outfield
RF - Tucker
CF - Bradley Jr.
LF - Brantley
DH - Alvarez

personally... I'd be 100% good with that outfield if we end up losing George

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This may be a crazy thought, but what about passing on Bradley, Jr. and instead fast tracking the Cuban centerfielder Leon? Yes, we still have to sign him, but I believe he is 22 and has played a lot of baseball in Cuba. Supposed to be an excellent centerfielder. If we're looking for a defensive CF and willing to take what we get at the plate, Leon would save us a lot of money vs Bradley and might actually be competent at the plate (more so than Straw perhaps).

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Agreed that Leon will probly be part of the equation.

I tend to think JBJ is our fall back plan if we miss on Brantley and Springer. <Insert disclaimer that this is not what I WANT to happen, just the way I think our front office will look at it>

In other words, I don't think we're going to spend $10mm AAV on another outfielder if Brantley or Springer is already in the fold. In that case, I think we'll bargain shop for a vet placeholder to platoon with Straw and buy time until Leon is ready.

The Tigers look a lot more than 2-3 years away.

They lost 98 games in '17 and '18, 114 games in '19 and were on pace for 97 in 2020.

Five of their regulars were 28 or older in 2020 and two of them were past 30.

They did have two 23 year olds and two 27 year olds in the 5-man rotation, but also had a team ERA of 5.63, which was last in the Major Leagues.

They are the perfect team to hire Hinch because they've got nothing to lose. They haven't made the playoffs since 2014 and have been 10th or lower out of 15 teams in the AL in attendance for the past 3 years.

We say this about FA but in the end they all end up taking the most money. Yuli is probably the first one (granted he didn't test the open market) who took less to stay here.

George will go to whoever makes him the best offer.

Deluxe said:

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iamtheglove said:

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tjack16 said:

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let's assume we don't sign springer at this point just for hypothetical even though it would kill me

Would you be okay with this as an outfield
RF - Tucker
CF - Bradley Jr.
LF - Brantley
DH - Alvarez

personally... I'd be 100% good with that outfield if we end up losing George

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This may be a crazy thought, but what about passing on Bradley, Jr. and instead fast tracking the Cuban centerfielder Leon? Yes, we still have to sign him, but I believe he is 22 and has played a lot of baseball in Cuba. Supposed to be an excellent centerfielder. If we're looking for a defensive CF and willing to take what we get at the plate, Leon would save us a lot of money vs Bradley and might actually be competent at the plate (more so than Straw perhaps).

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Agreed that Leon will probly be part of the equation.

I tend to think JBJ is our fall back plan if we miss on Brantley and Springer. <Insert disclaimer that this is not what I WANT to happen, just the way I think our front office will look at it>

In other words, I don't think we're going to spend $10mm AAV on another outfielder if Brantley or Springer is already in the fold. In that case, I think we'll bargain shop for a vet placeholder to platoon with Straw and buy time until Leon is ready.

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I still think JBJ is a bigger priority than Brantley, especially if projected salaries stay true. I'm seeing Bradley at 2 years, $8M per and Brantley at 2 years, $14M per. That $6M difference could get you a good reliever in this market and, worst case, that's a reasonable salary for a 4th OF even if Leon is ready. This is a team that likes to play matchups and JBJ enables that while Brantley doesn't (especially if Yordan is getting 500+ ABs at DH).

Unfortunately this is the truth.

I'd be OK with JBJ, but like I said last night I don't think he's all that much of an improvement over Marisnick. I'd also like to know if Tucker is capable in CF. Played there in the minors & I heard they are going to try him out in 2021...and obviously if he's a gold glove caliber leftfielder you think he would at least be able to hold down the fort. It's not like George was Willie Mays out there.

That would allow us to avoid putting a crap bat in the lineup just to get good CF defense and instead go after one of the much more capable hitters in the corner outfield spots.

MaxPower said:

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Deluxe said:

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iamtheglove said:

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tjack16 said:

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let's assume we don't sign springer at this point just for hypothetical even though it would kill me

Would you be okay with this as an outfield
RF - Tucker
CF - Bradley Jr.
LF - Brantley
DH - Alvarez

personally... I'd be 100% good with that outfield if we end up losing George

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This may be a crazy thought, but what about passing on Bradley, Jr. and instead fast tracking the Cuban centerfielder Leon? Yes, we still have to sign him, but I believe he is 22 and has played a lot of baseball in Cuba. Supposed to be an excellent centerfielder. If we're looking for a defensive CF and willing to take what we get at the plate, Leon would save us a lot of money vs Bradley and might actually be competent at the plate (more so than Straw perhaps).

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Agreed that Leon will probly be part of the equation.

I tend to think JBJ is our fall back plan if we miss on Brantley and Springer. <Insert disclaimer that this is not what I WANT to happen, just the way I think our front office will look at it>

In other words, I don't think we're going to spend $10mm AAV on another outfielder if Brantley or Springer is already in the fold. In that case, I think we'll bargain shop for a vet placeholder to platoon with Straw and buy time until Leon is ready.

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I still think JBJ is a bigger priority than Brantley, especially if projected salaries stay true. I'm seeing Bradley at 2 years, $8M per and Brantley at 2 years, $14M per. That $6M difference could get you a good reliever in this market and, worst case, that's a reasonable salary for a 4th OF even if Leon is ready. This is a team that likes to play matchups and JBJ enables that while Brantley doesn't (especially if Yordan is getting 500+ ABs at DH).

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I'm not opposed to that logic at all. My main contention is that I don't think we'll be signing both (which I'm guessing you agree with). Given the choice between JBJ at $8 or Brantley at $14, I'd probably still take Brantley, but it's not like it's extremely obvious either way.

Harry Dunne said:

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I'd be OK with JBJ, but like I said last night I don't think he's all that much of an improvement over Marisnick. I'd also like to know if Tucker is capable in CF. Played there in the minors & I heard they are going to try him out in 2021...and obviously if he's a gold glove caliber leftfielder you think he would at least be able to hold down the fort. It's not like George was Willie Mays out there.

That would allow us to avoid putting a crap bat in the lineup just to get good CF defense and instead go after one of the much more capable hitters in the corner outfield spots.

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I think he's worth a shot more than Jake is. Jake had 5 years with us to earn a spot and he never did. Outside of 2017 he was extremely below average with a bat.

JBJ is the reason we didn't win a 2018 pennant because he hit homeruns that still haven't landed in MMP that ALCS. He also had good offensive numbers in 2020 that would have put him in the top 4 in every offensive category among guys in our lineup. I'd rather give him a shot than do the same will he/wont he dance with Marisnick again.

I'd pass on Marwin and/or Marisnick in the FA market. I appreciate what they did in 17, but I would think it's probably best not to bring them back. It would just invite more media scrutiny -- cheaters coming back home, etc. Also with Marwin, if he hits anywhere above .250, the allegations will come out that the Astros are back at it, again....

Now, if they go after a Marwin or Marisnick type (cheap, acceptable bat, speed or fielding type) than I see how that could fit into the 2021 plan.

I agree with this.

I'm not jonesing for Jake specifically, but I think there are cheaper options that provide near the same thing. If we can get JBJ cheap then great, but if 2 yrs $16M is accurate, we can probably get someone else for less with the same skillset.

JBJ is not the long-term answer, but if you're paying $8M per for him, you're bringing him in to be the everyday CF. You bring a Jake-ish type to platoon with Straw and continue to provide him the ABs he needs to show you if he's going to be a part of the future or not. He was pretty bad last year, but he only got 82 ABs and he's only 25 years old. I think we can rule out the HOF at this point, but he could be a productive player and is cheap and under team control until 2026 and at this point where it's becoming time to pay the piper for our core, those types of players are invaluable.

BTW those JBJ bombs are nearly the only highlights in his postseason career, where he is a .185 hitter.

Just some interesting stats on Pedro Leon:

From a scout tweet (some slight discrepancies from the baseball reference numbers at the bottom):


"As a 20 year old, Leon posted offensive line of .371/.455/.765, 36 RBI, 7 SB, 15 HR (record in 1st phase of the Cuban League) in 2018"

Hopefully the formatting below works.


age AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
19 117 39 8 0 6 25 4 20 .333 .365 .556 .921
20 128 49 7 0 15 36 16 26 .383 .467 .789 1.256

yes, Cabrera's contract is not going anywhere for the next 3 years.

it's a millstone around the neck of the Tigers thru 2023

If we sign Leon, I'm hoping he is on the MLB Roster at some point in 2021. He could be the future of our OF along with Tucker

Yeah, I'm hoping the 'stros can keep one of Brantley/Springer, and add a good/cheap OF, and hopefully bring up someone from the farm or international arena.

Cameron Maybin may have a bit of the "cheater coming home" stigma I mentioned with Marwin and Marisnick from the uneducated masses, but he wasn't here long in 2017 and I don't believe any logical person thinks he was part of the scheme.

Either way, he is interesting guy. Was on a 1.5M deal last year. Lifetime ~.250 hitter, average fielder, pretty good speed. He, or someone like him, could be a good cheap options. JBJ would probably provide better numbers overall, but at a significantly higher price.

I'd have to imagine that Maybin never even signs a 1 year lease in a new city--probably just stays those extended stay places. Hasn't been on 1 team for more than a year since 2015....

Ag_07 said:

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I've forgotten a whole lot in my life but I will never ever forget that Cameron Maybin won the us all free tacos in the 2017 WS.

Not all heroes wear capes.

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I still look on this fondly.

No gold gloves for the Astros. Really thought Correa would win, but lost out the JP Crawford from the Mariners.

Alex Gordon winning it is all you need to know about what a joke & popularity contest the award still is. He is literally the slowest starting LF in baseball and had a negative defensive WAR.

Carlos was the highest AL SS (4th overall) for the fielding bible award, which is analytics-driven and what the GG ought to be. Crawford was 8th.

Uncle Mike was 1st in the AL (3rd overall) after tying for 1st overall last year, for those who think he's a "DH only" guy.

Greinke was 1st in the AL (2nd overall)

Favorite player tourney is now live.

No red, no blue. Just Orange.

112 candidates divided into 28 groups by random number generator. Each group named for a poster from the best moments and off-season threads. Vote for your favorites! Top 64 will move on to a traditional 4 region bracket starting tomorrow-ish. I vow not to abruptly stop counting votes at 11:30 p.m.

Enjoy the ride!

VOTE NOW

Good stuff! Nice touch with the group names. I think you have Steve Finley listed twice.

Buck Compton said:

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Some of those were tough... some had me thinking "do I even need to select one of these??

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I had 2 groups with no vote.