****2020 Official Houston Astros We Don't Have To Cheat To Beat You Season Thread****

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Marvin
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8:47a, 10/9/20
AG
Listened to MLB Radio this morning driving to work. A few nuggets regarding insurance policies, as it would likely relate to Verlander:

  • Injuries do not reduce salaries for luxury tax calculations, so his total amt counts.
  • Payout is generally $.75 to $.80 cents on the dollar. Good return there.
  • Insurance won't kick in until 180 days (calendar), so early spring.
  • Exclusions usually apply to previous injuries, but Verlander hasn't had elbow surgery before so no worries.
  • If injured within 30 days of return, considered same injury and the clock doesn't start over.

Nothing earth shattering, but at least it gives an idea of the financial relief to Crane.
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Wabs
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8:49a, 10/9/20
AG
Yanks going with Cole tonight (on short rest), and I just heard Rays are going with Glasnow on TWO days rest?? Wow....
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Hi, Im Brett
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8:49a, 10/9/20
AG



Quote:
Dammit, the Astros Are Really Going to Do This, Aren't They?

This MLB season, nobody (OK, nobody outside of Houston) wanted the Astros to win. Unfortunately, this team sure seems to be the real deal.

Here is an incomplete list of everyone who did not want this to happen. You. Me. Joe Kelly. Orel Hershiser. Ramn Laureano. Bob Melvin, Billy Beane, and the whole of Oakland's traditional right-field drum crew. The members of multiple angry group chats I'm in. Trevor Bauer. Cody Bellinger, Alex Wood, Clayton Kershaw, David Ross, and the collective Yankees dugout. Your ma, probably, too.
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Kashchei
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8:54a, 10/9/20
AG
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CFTXAG10
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8:57a, 10/9/20
AG
Funny thing is I feel like the Astros winning the World Series would be good for the game of baseball. Every great story needs a villain. People still want to believe that we were cheating the last couple years and not just 17. If they can make it out of this on top then it just shows everybody what us fans knew all along. They never needed to cheat to win.
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Mathguy64
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8:57a, 10/9/20
AG
Several MLB records got broken in this series. Astros and As each set a new record for team HR in an ALCS series at 12 each and combined HR for an ALCS at 24. They did it in 4 games not needing game 5 at all.

Astros had 3 players each hit HR twice in the same game of a playoff series (George, Carlos, Mike). The old record was 2 players. That is for all of the playoffs ever.
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tjack16
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In reply to Hi, Im Brett • 9:00a, 10/9/20
AG
Hi, Im Brett said:



Quote:
Dammit, the Astros Are Really Going to Do This, Aren't They?

This MLB season, nobody (OK, nobody outside of Houston) wanted the Astros to win. Unfortunately, this team sure seems to be the real deal.

Here is an incomplete list of everyone who did not want this to happen. You. Me. Joe Kelly. Orel Hershiser. Ramn Laureano. Bob Melvin, Billy Beane, and the whole of Oakland's traditional right-field drum crew. The members of multiple angry group chats I'm in. Trevor Bauer. Cody Bellinger, Alex Wood, Clayton Kershaw, David Ross, and the collective Yankees dugout. Your ma, probably, too.


The ringer actually had a really great podcast about our cheating sandal back in February where they talked about the narrative of "strikeout numbers going down from 2016 to 2017 means the Astros suck without cheating" as BS because we made adjustments to our lineup. And they said the cheating likely didn't even help us ... so they weren't too mad about it

I havent heard much from them since about it until this tweet
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Deluxe
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 9:01a, 10/9/20
AG
CFTXAG10 said:
Funny thing is I feel like the Astros winning the World Series would be good for the game of baseball. Every great story needs a villain. People still want to believe that we were cheating the last couple years and not just 17. If they can make it out of this on top then it just shows everybody what us fans knew all along. They never needed to cheat to win.
Yep. Regardless of how the rest of the playoffs go, we've already totally and comprehensively proven wrong the narrative that we were only good because we cheated. That's what's really getting under the haters' skin right now.
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The Milkman
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9:03a, 10/9/20
AG
I'm so glad we don't have to play a game 5 today.

That's all I wanted to say.
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cone
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In reply to AgDC • 9:04a, 10/9/20
AG
Quote:


The comments are very entertaining.



i'm pretty out on the organization since Crane curled up in the fetal position last year, but **** this guy especially
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Mathguy64
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9:09a, 10/9/20
AG
Couple of other stats.

Springer has 17 playoff dingers. Tied for 7th in history. One more bumps him to 5th. Correa and Altuve are at 15 HRs. Correa is 5 behind Jeter all time for SS. But Correa has roughly 500 less PAs. George is at #6 all time in WPA for playoffs career.
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Cromagnum
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 9:10a, 10/9/20
AG
CFTXAG10 said:
Funny thing is I feel like the Astros winning the World Series would be good for the game of baseball. Every great story needs a villain. People still want to believe that we were cheating the last couple years and not just 17. If they can make it out of this on top then it just shows everybody what us fans knew all along. They never needed to cheat to win.


In this day and age, if we were to win it all in 2020, the story would change to "Astros had too much advantage over the years due to cheating in the past, and this advantage carried forward". Next thing you know, baseball reparations.
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cone
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:10a, 10/9/20
AG
agree with this

yesterday changed it from a position of "maybe we should feel bad" to "if you don't like us, fight us"

sorry Jeff Passan you can ead
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Deluxe
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In reply to cone • 9:10a, 10/9/20
AG
I was pretty disappointed at the time when we just rolled over, apologized and tried to move on without making accusations or pointing out other instancing of similar behavior happening around the league. But part of me wonders if we might come out ahead in the long run taking that approach.

It will inevitably come out over the coming years what was actually happening around the league. There's alot of journalistic investigation going on right now. Books being written, podcasts being recorded. Lots of disgruntled former players are going to talk (Logan Morrison). The story about how the sign stealing strategy ultimately made its way to the Houston clubhouse (likely via Beltran) will come to light.

The fact that we totally took the high road, apologized for doing wrong and kept quiet for the good of the game in the face of unimaginable scrutiny could end up earning our guys a ton of respect. I guess we'll see.
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Jackal99
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9:14a, 10/9/20
AG
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bearkatag15
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9:14a, 10/9/20
AG
So TB is starting Glasnow on 2 days rest while they have Snell who is on 3 days rest. I assume they are planning on a tandem game with Snell coming in after 4ish innings after Glasnow. If they do that then both guys will be burned until games 3/4 at the earliest.
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Deluxe
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In reply to The Milkman • 9:15a, 10/9/20
AG
The Milkman said:
I'm so glad we don't have to play a game 5 today.

That's all I wanted to say.
Agreed. It's much more enjoyable to refresh this thread for Astros tears than to see the latest debate of how we're going to manage innings.
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cone
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:16a, 10/9/20
AG
just my personality

i wanted them to burn it all down

i can't stand the sanctimony from the media, the other organizations (the Yankees), and the commissioner's office

i think i really just hate the media (especially the sports media) and hate when they preen. i'd rather set fire to it all than give them the satisfaction of a scalp.

but that's me. i'm not a good person.
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Farmer1906
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9:17a, 10/9/20
AG
Darth Vader, The Joker, Voldemort, Thanos, and the Houston Astros.
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Wabs
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9:18a, 10/9/20
AG
Here's to an 18 inning marathon tonight between the Yanks and Rays!
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Jackal99 • 9:18a, 10/9/20
AG
Jackal99 said:
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Deluxe
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In reply to cone • 9:20a, 10/9/20
AG
Haha I feel ya man. That's what my instincts wanted too.
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Prosperdick
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9:21a, 10/9/20
AG
If we win it all here will be the spin...Astros shouldn't have even made it to the playoffs but got lucky due to Covid. Also, because of Covid they didn't have to face crowds booing them lustily which surely would have impacted their performance. They will frame it as another illegitimate championship, just watch.

Oh and they can all go f*<k themselves.
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cone
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:24a, 10/9/20
AG
also i don't want to give Crane any credit for playing a long game here

he sucks and is a coward
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agproducer
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9:25a, 10/9/20
AG
I'm really enjoying this ride right now, and eff the haters.

That being said, I want to jump in about something said a couple pages back regarding closer next year:

We should not invest in a closer. I think we will need to bolster the bullpen with a couple FAs. We can find the closer from within.

I love Blake Taylor's mental makeup. He seems like he could be a closer if he can develop another pitch. Paredes could also be a candidate. I think Pressly is what he is, a setup man, and that's ok. The thing is, we have potential options.
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Wabs
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9:30a, 10/9/20
AG
What will be interesting is to see who makes offers to Springer over the off season (Please Astros re-sign him).

After all the **** other teams and their fans have talked about the "cheating Astros", now they want to add one of them to their team? Kinda like Dodger fan rooting for Mookie and David Price after they came over from the cheating Red Sox.

Another interesting one will be to see who (if anyone) signs rat face coward snitch ***** Fiers.You think any players really want him in their clubhouse?
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Deluxe
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In reply to agproducer • 9:36a, 10/9/20
AG
I definitely think we're going to invest in a couple bullpen pieces next year. Maybe not a closer per se but two veterans with late inning high lev experience. Then we roll with the hot hand as the "closer". Agreed that Pressly isn't a closer, although he can probably serve the role for stretches during the regular season. If someone is going to step up and become a dominant closer, Paredes seems like the most likely guy. The free agent market for closers really isn't that good anyway and typically they don't turn out to be good investments, given what they demand contractually.

I won't be surprised if we try to deal Greinke and clear his salary off the books to make room for bolstering the pen. Maybe snag a prospect or two in return. Rotation to start next year of Framber, LMJ, Urquidy, Javier and Pruitt will be fine. We can continue to develop supplements and make a move at the deadline if we're looking thin.

2020 was the year of Ted, maybe 2021 will be the year of Forrest!? (I can dream, right?).
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Beat40
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In reply to agproducer • 9:39a, 10/9/20
agproducer said:
I'm really enjoying this ride right now, and eff the haters.

That being said, I want to jump in about something said a couple pages back regarding closer next year:

We should not invest in a closer. I think we will need to bolster the bullpen with a couple FAs. We can find the closer from within.

I love Blake Taylor's mental makeup. He seems like he could be a closer if he can develop another pitch. Paredes could also be a candidate. I think Pressly is what he is, a setup man, and that's ok. The thing is, we have potential options.


I think we can look at the Rays and get an idea of what Click would probably want to do. They don't really have a closer, but have plenty of guys with good stuff.
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Deluxe
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In reply to Beat40 • 9:41a, 10/9/20
AG
Exactly
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redline248
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In reply to [removed post] • 9:46a, 10/9/20
AG
"my dreams and emotions suffered! Waaah waaahhhhh"

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno
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9:48a, 10/9/20
AG
I really hope the braves can knock off the dodgers

Not that I wouldn't want to beat them this year, but realistically I just don't think we can
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Beat40
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9:50a, 10/9/20
I actually hope we focus less on the bullpen and more on starter types. Sure, a strong bullpen is fine, but this postseason is once again confirming what we already know. Good starting pitching is how you win.

It makes logical sense too. Starters are starters because they have the best stuff to go multiple innings. Most bullpen guys have one, maybe two really good pitches, but they can't make it more than an inning or two without getting knocked around. You need reliability out of your bullpen for sure, but we have crushed elite bullpens, and I think that has to do with them ultimately not being as good as starters. Also, one guy has an off inning and you can be toast.

In the Dodgers broadcast last night, they talked about how Roberts told his guys to try to work long ABs to get more relievers in there. Said he believed seeing them more mitigated whatever advantages they had. He should know because he saw first hand how we did it to his bullpen in 2017.

All in all, I'm for adding some bullpen help, but we get Joe Smith back next year as well as Peacock. Sure, add another guy or two, but don't go crazy. I'd rather us try to find another starter or two.
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bearkatag15
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In reply to Deluxe • 9:51a, 10/9/20
AG
Quote:
2020 was the year of Ted, maybe 2021 will be the year of Forrest!? (I can dream, right?).
I just read that he is throwing again and should be facing batters soon. That's a good sign for him to be ready to go in Spring Training.
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Deluxe
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 9:52a, 10/9/20
AG
bearkatag15 said:
Quote:
2020 was the year of Ted, maybe 2021 will be the year of Forrest!? (I can dream, right?).
I just read that he is throwing again and should be facing batters soon. That's a good sign for him to be ready to go in Spring Training.
Also saw on Instagram yesterday that he has a 36 inch vertical now
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Deluxe
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In reply to Beat40 • 9:54a, 10/9/20
AG
Beat40 said:
I actually hope we focus less on the bullpen and more on starter types. Sure, a strong bullpen is fine, but this postseason is once again confirming what we already know. Good starting pitching is how you win.

It makes logical sense too. Starters are starters because they have the best stuff to go multiple innings. Most bullpen guys have one, maybe two really good pitches, but they can't make it more than an inning or two without getting knocked around. You need reliability out of your bullpen for sure, but we have crushed elite bullpens, and I think that has to do with them ultimately not being as good as starters. Also, one guy has an off inning and you can be toast.

In the Dodgers broadcast last night, they talked about how Roberts told his guys to try to work long ABs to get more relievers in there. Said he believed seeing them more mitigated whatever advantages they had. He should know because he saw first hand how we did it to his bullpen in 2017.

All in all, I'm for adding some bullpen help, but we get Joe Smith back next year as well as Peacock. Sure, add another guy or two, but don't go crazy. I'd rather us try to find another starter or two.
That's a fair point. I guess at the end of the day, we just want to bring pitchers who are best at getting batters out and then find roles for them. And it's probably easier to take a starter and mold him to a bullpen role than the opposite.
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