Which MLB scandal was the worst?

3,510 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Proposition Joe
FireAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:16a, 1/14/20
AG
Astros/BoSox using technology to steal pitches?

Steroids breaking the HR record (twice)?

Pete Rose betting on baseball?

White Sox throwing the 1919 World Series?
Reply Quote
South Platte
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to FireAg • 10:18a, 1/14/20
FireAg said:

Steroids breaking the HR record (twice)?
But man Summer 1998 was so much fun . . .
Reply Quote
6
ORAggieFan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:20a, 1/14/20
1919 was by far the worst.

Pete Rose betting was the least worst. I say this because he was betting on his team to win and would have a very different opinion if he bet to lose.

Reply Quote
11
Big Shooter
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to FireAg • 10:22a, 1/14/20
Staff
AG
FireAg said:
2. Astros/BoSox using technology to steal pitches?

3. Steroids breaking the HR record (twice)?

4. Pete Rose betting on baseball?

1. White Sox throwing the 1919 World Series?
Ranked from worst (1) to least harmful (4)
Reply Quote
6
Fat Bib Fortuna
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:23a, 1/14/20
AG
the 1919 world series is the worst - guys were intentionally throwing WS games for money.

The steroids and the Astros/Sox were about teams trying everything they could to win.

Terrible quality but no mention of Pete Rose is complete without this.

Reply Quote
1
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:42a, 1/14/20
AG
Hi-tech sign stealing was cheating that had no influence on the outcome of the game. Road vs home record, and lasted a year and a half
Steroid era was cheating that changed the history and path of baseball as we know it. And lasted 20 years
And some of you guys think it wasn't as bad?????

Every team team that won a championship from the late 80s until 2000 was helped with the use of illegal drugs.
That is a lot of asterisks
Reply Quote
2
Big Shooter
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 10:47a, 1/14/20
Staff
AG
If everyone was doing it, while it might have tarnished some historic records, the playing field was relatively level because most everybody was going it. It's unfortunate and shameful, but that's how the game was played then.

Sign stealing through technology absolutely altered the outcome of the game and even multiple postseason series. Nobody will claim that steroid users changed the outcome of World Series games, but fans of 29 other teams will always think that Houston and Boston cheated to win their titles in 2017 and 2018.

The legacy of an entire franchise was changed forever because of it rather than just the legacy of individual players.
Reply Quote
11
ORAggieFan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 10:47a, 1/14/20
DrZ said:
Hi-tech sign stealing was cheating that had no influence on the outcome of the game. Road vs home record, and lasted a year and a half
Steroid era was cheating that changed the history and path of baseball as we know it. And lasted 20 years
And some of you guys think it wasn't as bad?????

Every team team that won a championship from the late 80s until 2000 was helped with the use of illegal drugs.
That is a lot of asterisks
You're delusional.
Reply Quote
9
tjack16
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:11a, 1/14/20
AG
I'd say Steroids was the worst. it has directly caused many all time greats to likely never make the hall of fame.
A-Rod, McGuire, Palmeiro, Bonds, etc.

It also directly influenced each play on the field and we likely will never know how many players were truly cheating.
Reply Quote
2
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ORAggieFan • 12:27p, 1/14/20
AG
I am serious. Please tell me what am i delusional about. The sign stealing made no difference that is without question. It was cheating. They should be punished. I do not question that.
Steroids changed everything. Just because everyone did it doesn't make it any better its worse.
Reply Quote
2
GrapevineAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 12:41p, 1/14/20
AG
DrZ said:
I am serious. Please tell me what am i delusional about. The sign stealing made no difference that is without question. It was cheating. They should be punished. I do not question that.
Steroids changed everything. Just because everyone did it doesn't make it any better its worse.
That's delusional for sure. If it didn't make a difference, they wouldn't have done it consistently all season and post-season.
Reply Quote
7
TXAggie2011
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:42p, 1/14/20
AG
The 1919 Black Sox Scandal was painfully egregious and destroyed the careers of that particular roster. It gave rise to the Commissioner of Baseball, which obviously has had a massive effect on baseball and the rest of American professional sports. So, I think that's a pretty big deal.


I would still vote for the steroid era, as it effected a whole generation of players, teams, and, of course, led us to label an entire era around the scandal. It is part of a larger scandal that's reached nearly all types and levels of sport.


The current scandal gets at the fairness and integrity of the game, as did the two above. I think because its isolated, at least at this point, I wouldn't put it above steroids. And its probably a little less egregious than players straight up throwing a World Series. If MLB overturns some more stones and finds some nasty stuff, then we can re-evaluate.

The Pete Rose stuff. Meh.
Reply Quote
2
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GrapevineAg • 12:52p, 1/14/20
AG
In 2017 they hit better on the road than they did at home. The entire season as well as post-season. That is not an opinion
Reply Quote
11
ORAggieFan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 12:55p, 1/14/20
DrZ said:
I am serious. Please tell me what am i delusional about. The sign stealing made no difference that is without question. It was cheating. They should be punished. I do not question that.
Steroids changed everything. Just because everyone did it doesn't make it any better its worse.
You thinking it made no difference. If it made no difference, do you think they'd continue to do it?
Reply Quote
3
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:08p, 1/14/20
AG
No they wouldn't. And they didn't. At least that's what it says in the report.
They stopped mid 2018 because "the players felt it was not effective"
"the investigation revealed no violations...by the Astros in 2019"
Reply Quote
JABQ04
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:11p, 1/14/20
AG
1919 White Sox without a doubt was the worst baseball scandal.
Reply Quote
1
GrapevineAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 1:12p, 1/14/20
AG
DrZ said:
In 2017 they hit better on the road than they did at home. The entire season as well as post-season. That is not an opinion

These stats beg to differ:

Astros' Home and Road Splits From 2017 Postseason Clearly Indicate Something Fishy Was Going on

Quote:
2017 Post-Season hitting stats:

Altuve:
Home: .472 BA/.513 OBP/1.028 SLG/1.541 OPS, 17 H, 6 HR & 12 RBI
Away: .143 BA, .268 OBP, .229 SLG, .497 OPS, 5 H, 1 HR & 2 RBI

Correa:
Home: .371 BA/.421 OBP/.743 SLG/1.164 OPS, 13 H, 3 HR & 10 RBI
Away: .211 BA/.231 OBP/.395 SLG/.626 OPS, 8 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI.

Bregman:
Home: .273 BA/.342 OBP/.515 SLG/.857 OPS, 9 H, 2 HR & 6 RBI
Away: .154 BA/.175 OBP/.333 SLG/.508 OPS, 6 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI

McCann:
Home: .300 BA/.382 OBP/.467 SLG/.849 OPS, 9 H, 1 HR & 7 RBI
Away: .037 BA/.161 OBP/.037 SLG/.198 OPS, 1 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

Gattis:
Home: .300 BA/.464 OBP/.550 SLG/1.014 OPS, 6 H, 1 HR & 3 RBI
Away: .200 BA/.333 OBP/.200 SLG/.533 OPS, 2 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI
Reply Quote
4
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:24p, 1/14/20
AG
I am not as good at posting as you guys. Go to Baseball reference and look at split stats home vs away

Not even close Not one category where they lead at home

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=HOU&year=2017

I am sure if you pick and chose players like that article did you can prove anything

I realize we are all bias either pro Astro or Astro hater. We believe what we want.
Reply Quote
2
Ag_07
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:26p, 1/14/20
AG
Steroids

Club employees were dealing drugs, Federal prosecutors were involved, new laws were made, people were thrown in jail.

Sign stealing was breaking a baseball rule.
Reply Quote
GrapevineAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 1:37p, 1/14/20
AG
Sorry, you're gonna have to do a bit more work and show me some stats. I saw some totals for the regular season. In the post-season, where the opposition is tougher, there was a huge discrepancy, as I illustrated above. To my knowledge, not one player said "hey don't do that while I'm batting - it's distracting" or "it doesn't help me".

Whether it helped or not isn't really the issue. The fact is they cheated because they at least thought it helped. They got busted, and now fans are trying to deflect or rationalize it. I have seen a couple of fans on here own up to it properly, but that has been rare.
Reply Quote
ORAggieFan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 1:46p, 1/14/20
DrZ said:
I am not as good at posting as you guys. Go to Baseball reference and look at split stats home vs away

Not even close Not one category where they lead at home

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=HOU&year=2017

I am sure if you pick and chose players like that article did you can prove anything

I realize we are all bias either pro Astro or Astro hater. We believe what we want.
Pretty sure none of those numbers are adjusted for park factors. In 2017 Minute Maid had the least amount of runs scored in the league. One can have a benefit being at home and still have better looking stats on the road.
Reply Quote
1
the last of the bohemians
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:47p, 1/14/20
Take the list of guys who are not in hall of fame because of their ties with steroids.
Put an asterisk next to every championship team those guys played on.
Reply Quote
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:50p, 1/14/20
AG
Please do not think that i am condoning it. They should be punished. This thread was about comparing to other scandals. Steroids went on 20 years. People went to jail. Federal laws were broken.

I know a lot of people like to just overlook it. My points were only about the comparison of those two things.
Astros have been punished. Red Sox to come. I saw one MLB interview where they said there was 8 more teams.
I doubt it but time will tell.
Reply Quote
GrapevineAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 1:56p, 1/14/20
AG
Cool, I understand your position.

The whole steroids thing took a lot of enjoyment out of the game for me personally. Seeing Ruth's (or Maris') record broken should have been a huge celebration, but I knew McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were juicing, so I had no joy watching the records fall.

Imho, the Black Sox scandal is the worst of the scandals listed. Assuming Pete Rose never bet on his team to lose, that's the least troubling one to me. Need more time to rank this vs. steroids. Gonna wait and see who else gets caught up in this one.
Reply Quote
DrZ
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:17p, 1/14/20
AG
We have also completely overlooked substance on balls and corked bats. Players laugh about it. Many hall of famers.
Gaylord Perry, Whitey Ford, Joe Neikro, Mike Scott, Rick Honeycutt, Kevin Gross, Don Sutton
bats- Greg Nettles, Brett, Norm Cash, Amos Otis,

Almost all played in WS and admit to cheating, Tell funny stories about it.
Baseball is and always will be. Cheat, get caught, get maybe punished, move on.
Reply Quote
Aggie1205
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:31a, 1/15/20
AG
Going by punishment, the Braves recently were arguably hit harder than the Astros.

-GM banned for life
-Asst to GM given one year ban
-13 players released from contracts, with several being top prospects (total signed value of prospects was 16.48 million)
- Lost a third round pick
- One year of not being able to sign an international player for over 10k
-Reduction of International pool by 50% for an additional year
-They also had a year of not being able to sign an international player for more than 300k.

They basically lost 4 years of signing international prospects.
Reply Quote
SquirrellyDan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Big Shooter • 8:56a, 1/15/20
AG
Richard Zane said:
If everyone was doing it, while it might have tarnished some historic records, the playing field was relatively level because most everybody was going it. It's unfortunate and shameful, but that's how the game was played then.

Sign stealing through technology absolutely altered the outcome of the game and even multiple postseason series. Nobody will claim that steroid users changed the outcome of World Series games, but fans of 29 other teams will always think that Houston and Boston cheated to win their titles in 2017 and 2018.

The legacy of an entire franchise was changed forever because of it rather than just the legacy of individual players.
No way you can say that it "absolutely altered the game." We won games 6 and 7 in LA. Our away record was fantastic.

Also, the only way this changes the legacy of BoSox/Astros is that the people who hated them before will hate them even more.
Reply Quote
1 edit
Big Shooter
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SquirrellyDan • 10:07a, 1/15/20
Staff
AG
You lost Game 6 in Los Angeles.
Reply Quote
1
SquirrellyDan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Big Shooter • 11:09a, 1/15/20
AG
Richard Zane said:
You lost Game 6 in Los Angeles.
Touche.
Reply Quote
1 edit
SquirrellyDan
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GrapevineAg • 11:15a, 1/15/20
AG
GrapevineAg said:
DrZ said:
In 2017 they hit better on the road than they did at home. The entire season as well as post-season. That is not an opinion

These stats beg to differ:

Astros' Home and Road Splits From 2017 Postseason Clearly Indicate Something Fishy Was Going on

Quote:
2017 Post-Season hitting stats:

Altuve:
Home: .472 BA/.513 OBP/1.028 SLG/1.541 OPS, 17 H, 6 HR & 12 RBI
Away: .143 BA, .268 OBP, .229 SLG, .497 OPS, 5 H, 1 HR & 2 RBI

Correa:
Home: .371 BA/.421 OBP/.743 SLG/1.164 OPS, 13 H, 3 HR & 10 RBI
Away: .211 BA/.231 OBP/.395 SLG/.626 OPS, 8 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI.

Bregman:
Home: .273 BA/.342 OBP/.515 SLG/.857 OPS, 9 H, 2 HR & 6 RBI
Away: .154 BA/.175 OBP/.333 SLG/.508 OPS, 6 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI

McCann:
Home: .300 BA/.382 OBP/.467 SLG/.849 OPS, 9 H, 1 HR & 7 RBI
Away: .037 BA/.161 OBP/.037 SLG/.198 OPS, 1 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

Gattis:
Home: .300 BA/.464 OBP/.550 SLG/1.014 OPS, 6 H, 1 HR & 3 RBI
Away: .200 BA/.333 OBP/.200 SLG/.533 OPS, 2 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI
For the 2017 our team SLG, OPS, HR numbers, walks, and batting avg were all higher on the road. That's 162 games of data vs. 18 in the playoffs.
Reply Quote
Big Shooter
User Profile
Private Message
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SquirrellyDan • 11:16a, 1/15/20
Staff
AG
SquirrellyDan said:
Richard Zane said:
You lost Game 6 in Los Angeles.
Touche.
Houston won Game 2 and 7 in LA.

The game that is really interesting is Game 5 in Houston because of the Dodgers' big leads and the fact that Kershaw was pitching.

Yes, I know the "postseason Kershaw" thing, but in that postseason and that World Series in particular, he was rather dominant. 11 IP, 1 ER in WS games not in Houston. It's curious that in the second time through the order, the Astros picked something up on him. Whether that be stealing signs or just him losing it, we will never know and now I think the baseball world will always have questions about that game.
Reply Quote
1
03_Aggie
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Big Shooter • 6:37p, 1/15/20
Richard Zane said:
If everyone was doing it, while it might have tarnished some historic records, the playing field was relatively level because most everybody was going it. It's unfortunate and shameful, but that's how the game was played then.

Sign stealing through technology absolutely altered the outcome of the game and even multiple postseason series. Nobody will claim that steroid users changed the outcome of World Series games, but fans of 29 other teams will always think that Houston and Boston cheated to win their titles in 2017 and 2018.

The legacy of an entire franchise was changed forever because of it rather than just the legacy of individual players.


Sign stealing absolutely altered the outcome of games but steroids didn't. Lol.

Bitter losers will most always cling to some reason as to why their team lost.
Reply Quote
3
94chem
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ORAggieFan • 10:42p, 1/15/20
ORAggieFan said:
1919 was by far the worst.

Pete Rose betting was the least worst. I say this because he was betting on his team to win and would have a very different opinion if he bet to lose.



Even betting on the team to win is a big deal. Maybe you have your closer pitch an extra inning, or you play somebody who's injured, all to get that single win. Then it messes up the team for the next week. It's a huge compromise of integrity.
Reply Quote
DannyDuberstein
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:19a, 1/16/20
AG
Black Sox with Astros #2, then giant monumental gap to #3.
Reply Quote
2
1 edit
91AggieLawyer
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to DrZ • 4:07p, 1/16/20
AG
DrZ said:
In 2017 they hit better on the road than they did at home. The entire season as well as post-season. That is not an opinion

You're either being dishonest or you're not accounting for multiple factors in hitting and winning. Houston won 5 more games on the road that year. One of the reasons for that was they played 2 NL series on the road (MIA and PHI) and a 4 game split with ATL. They won all but, I think, 1 of those games. None of these 3 teams were any good -- all below .500. Playing bad teams on the road will probably have a greater affect on your hitting and probable winning than cheating at home, but that doesn't mean the latter isn't effective.

Besides, if you really believe what you wrote here, why did they go to all that trouble cheat and potentially get caught, not knowing what the outcome of those actions could be?
Reply Quote
1
Page 1 of 2 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.