whoa, hold on now. Ted Simmons should have been in a long time ago. Check the numbers.

he had the misfortune of playing in Johnny Bench's shadow for years. And also playing in the national league in the 1970's for a team other than the Reds, Dodgers, Phillies, or Pirates.

he had a great stretch of seasons from 1972 to 1978. In some years he caught 140 or 150 games for the Cardinals and still hit .300. Imaging catching all those games on the astroturf in the summer heat in St. Louis.

And the old Busch stadium had 385 ft power alleys. It was a great pitcher's park

I think Larry Walker will get in someday. He was pretty darn close to a true 5-tool player in his prime (for several seasons)

and to look back at how crazy the steroid era was...

in 2001 Larry Walker posts: 38 HR & 123 RBI

wins the batting title (.350) and has an OPS of 1.111

yet only finished 24th in MVP voting.

in one sense he has already been punished for playing at Coors Field

interesting to read that Dwight Evans got serious consideration from the veterans committee.

career WAR is 67.1

1. yall know beckett committed to TAMU before he went pro? the only reason he didn't go to TAMU was because of how high he was picked up by the Marlins
2. He went to my high school, i have an early autograph of his stuff somewhere.

With the absurd induction of Harold Baines, I've become more and more a "small Hall" person.

My ballot would be:

Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Sosa

I won't be upset if guys like Rolen, Walker, or Sheffield get in.

Ihatefallscounty said:

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1. yall know beckett committed to TAMU before he went pro? the only reason he didn't go to TAMU was because of how high he was picked up by the Marlins
2. He went to my high school, i have an early autograph of his stuff somewhere.

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Coolstorybro.gif

Yep career greatness at fielding SS , especially in days of less shifts, should be a qualifier.

agproducer said:

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I think y'all are sleeping on Vizquel. He was a great defensive shortstop. The guy won 11 gold gloves. He is in the top 10 in defensive WAR.

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I think Andruw Jones has a much stronger case than Vizquel. 10 GG in 17 seasons vs 11 in 24 seasons. 62.8 WAR vs 45.6 WAR.

Obviously comparing a CF and SS isn't perfect. Looking at Vizquel compared to other HOF SS, he comes up significantly short.

Quote:

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Vizquel
45.6 career WAR / 26.8 7yr-peak WAR / 36.2 JAWS

Average HOF SS:
67.0 career WAR / 43.0 7yr-peak WAR / 55.0 JAWS

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As for Jones:

Quote:

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Jones
62.8 career WAR / 46.5 7yr-peak WAR / 54.7 JAWS

Average HOF CF (out of 19):
71.1 career WAR / 44.5 7yr-peak WAR / 57.8 JAWS

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Pass on both

Andruw Jones had stretches, and even years where he you could say "he's a hall of fame guy" ...did Harold Baines ever have those type moments?

Overall, Jones' resume fail short (as shown by the writers), but just like a ton of players, he better get in via committee...

Farmer1906 said:

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Pass on both

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Agreed. Was just making case that Jones has a stronger case than Vizquel, imo.

Jeter should be unanimously voted into the Herpes Hall of Fame, sponsored by Valtrex. I think GlaxoSmithKline's stock price has been helped by the volume and celebrities he added to their customer base.

a few issues with Andruw Jones...

about 40% of his total WAR is due to defense.

generally speaking outfielders get in the Hall by putting up huge offensive numbers. Players at 2B and SS get much more credit for defensive prowess.

also Jones only had a .254 career batting average...which is quite mediocre for a Hall of Fame player. It wasn't the one-true-outcome era yet when he played.

Dave Parker and Al Oliver have better cases

Next year's ballot will help to clean up the back log.

The top 5 potential newcomers to the ballot are:

1) Aramis Ramirez
2) Tim Hudson
3) Torii Hunter
4) Mark Buehrle
5) Barry Zito

I don't think any of those stick around for a 2nd year.

Curt Schilling is a badass. If he doesn't get in at some point it will be purely political.

I get the usefulness of WAR in ranking players, but it does have some issues...
Cal Ripken Jr is supposedly the 24th best position player of all time according to career WAR?
He had a career .276 average and a lot of subpar years to go with the 2 MVP years.

Function of a cumulative counting stat and a player who played a ton of games.

Jeter one vote shy of being unanimous. Walker squeaks in at 76.6%.

Schilling missed the cut at 70%. Clemens at 61%.

Moxley said:

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Jeter one vote shy of being unanimous.

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That one voter should lose his ability to cast another one. Just dumb.

Because HoF voters have also previously been idiots in the past doesn't mean they aren't being equally moronic now.

Or I guess I should say he/she seeing as there's only one moron this time.

Those guys I mentioned were definitely more or at the very least as deserving of unanimous votes. If they didn't receive it then that's the standard

I didn't suggest otherwise, but because sports writers, and baseball writers in particular, are self important pompous jackasses doesn't mean that should be the standard. I'm well aware of the reality of the situation though.

Was just looking at Jeter's numbers. He had an entire extra season of stats from playing in so many post-season games - 158 games, 650 AB and 200 hits - a .308 BA. Never understand why they don't allow playoff stats onto career total stats. It's not taking away from guys leading the league in the regular season.

Mr.Bond said:

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Those guys I mentioned were definitely more or at the very least as deserving of unanimous votes. If they didn't receive it then that's the standard

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So women shouldn't have the right to vote, cigarette commercials are perfectly acceptable on television and seatbelts are optional on vehicles... because that was rational thinking at different points in our history? Oh, you mean baseball itself has a set standard that should be universal, like the juiced ball is not a real thing, the mound height hasn't been changed in different eras, steroids didnt wreck the record books, and instant replay doesn't give or take away hits... because we should have one constant measuring tape that stretches across generations. I respectfully disagree.

One vote from unanimous. Someone was being a *****, period, and that person should be removed as history's goalie.

Mr.Bond said:

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Those guys I mentioned were definitely more or at the very least as deserving of unanimous votes. If they didn't receive it then that's the standard

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This is a very tired take. Mariano Rivera of all players was the first unanimous selection. If there are any standards then it should be that one. Unanimous isn't some rarified mystical achievement when a guy who threw one pitch is a unanimous selection. The only reason Jeter wasn't unanimous is because someone is clinging to the moronic past way of thinking.

In addition to all this nonsense BS about %'s the MLB HoF also makes ridiculous distinctions between first ballot hall of famers and those who take multiple votes. I can see a (pretty weak) argument that Jeter isn't a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's arguably a Barry Larkin/Alan Trammell level player who happened to play for the Yankees. Obviously he probably should be a first ballot guy, but really I'm way more surprised that only one person left him off because of the first ballot thing than I am that he wasn't unanimous

JJxvi said:

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In addition to all this nonsense BS about %'s the MLB HoF also makes ridiculous distinctions between first ballot hall of famers and those who take multiple votes. I can see a (pretty weak) argument that Jeter isn't a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's arguably a Barry Larkin/Alan Trammell level player who happened to play for the Yankees. Obviously he probably should be a first ballot guy, but really I'm way more surprised that only one person left him off because of the first ballot thing than I am that he wasn't unanimous

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I can appreciate this opinion.

In my opinion, you're either a HOFer or you're not. One chance to get in. That's it. It's like the writers are telling these guys they're good enough but you have to wait a while. Maybe some years no one gets voted in. I'm a small Hall person though and a lot of writers are not.

I'll say this about Jeter, he's a HOFer rightfully so, but I also think he's a little overrated. Put him on the Royals for 20 years and get back to me on whether he gets in on 395/396 votes or has to wait until his 7th year. The HOF is basically 30% Yankees players and memorabilia, maybe higher. May as well be the Yankees (and some other notable players) Museum.

Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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In my opinion, you're either a HOFer or you're not. One chance to get in. That's it. It's like the writers are telling these guys they're good enough but you have to wait a while. Maybe some years no one gets voted in. I'm a small Hall person though and a lot of writers are not.

I'll say this about Jeter, he's a HOFer rightfully so, but I also think he's a little overrated. Put him on the Royals for 20 years and get back to me on whether he gets in on 395/396 votes or has to wait until his 7th year. The HOF is basically 30% Yankees players and memorabilia, maybe higher. May as well be the Yankees (and some other notable players) Museum.

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Unfortunately your opinion (and most all of our opinions) doesnt matter and there are like 400-500 different guys who do matter that each have their own different opinions

JJxvi said:

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Fuzzy Dunlop said:

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In my opinion, you're either a HOFer or you're not. One chance to get in. That's it. It's like the writers are telling these guys they're good enough but you have to wait a while. Maybe some years no one gets voted in. I'm a small Hall person though and a lot of writers are not.

I'll say this about Jeter, he's a HOFer rightfully so, but I also think he's a little overrated. Put him on the Royals for 20 years and get back to me on whether he gets in on 395/396 votes or has to wait until his 7th year. The HOF is basically 30% Yankees players and memorabilia, maybe higher. May as well be the Yankees (and some other notable players) Museum.

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Unfortunately your opinion (and most all of our opinions) doesnt matter and there are like 400-500 different guys who do matter that each have their own different opinions

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Really? I didn't realize my opinion doesn't matter. In that case, I retract my previous statements

I've submitted my application to the BBWAA. I'll be the Texags Baseball Other Rep. Still waiting on a response from the BBWAA.