They have made large strides in implementing technology for getting calls right. What can they do to stop sign stealing?

Other than having to monitor every possible way that a team could steal signs and communicate that to their hitters what about just making the communication between catcher and pitcher much more difficult to intercept?

Would you have a problem if they allowed mics in catcher's helmets that covered their mouths where they could directly communicate to the pitcher via an ear piece?

I wouldn't. That would eliminate a lot of boring mound visits. It would make the game more enjoyable for me.

Texaggie7nine said:

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They have made large strides in implementing technology for getting calls right. What can they do to stop sign stealing?

Other than having to monitor every possible way that a team could steal signs and communicate that to their hitters what about just making the communication between catcher and pitcher much more difficult to intercept?

Would you have a problem if they allowed mics in catcher's helmets that covered their mouths where they could directly communicate to the pitcher via an ear piece?

I wouldn't. That would eliminate a lot of boring mound visits. It would make the game more enjoyable for me.

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Speaking into a mic wouldn't work. Crowd noise in big moments could make it difficult for the voice to be heard and then the fear of the batter listening would come into play.

I've see a suggestion something like a beeping system could be implemented where the catcher uses a sequence of beeping or other sound via a button that goes to a earpiece in the pitcher's ear.

If you spoke in code. Maybe use numbers or letters for pitches. Changing it up like normal.

It would limit the only possible participants in breaking your code to only the batter with no other help.

That's a good idea. Seems like it could work.

Though it is a little more information, if the batter can hear you, than the batter would normally get, since they cannot see the hand sign at all.

I think the trade off is worth it.

I'm all for testing a mic system.

But, I think crowd and stadium noise would prove to be challenge and I don't think breaking a verbal code would be all that hard and once it's broken, there's not even a need to figure out how to relay signs.

How far outside the box would you be willing to go? Because another option that could theoretically work would be to let the pitching coach call the game instead of the catcher. In this scenario, both the pitcher and the catcher could have earpieces with each pitch call coming in from the dugout instead of from the catcher.

As an added bonus, this would create a fascinating new dynamic because the pitcher would have to overrule his coach instead of just his teammate if he wanted to throw something different.

You think something simple like a rotating indicator would help

In ear monitors for players like NFL. May need to move calling pitches to a coach though depending on how good technology is.

Electronic strike zone will help. The catcher no longer needs to be as prepared for the pitch to frame it. He'd still have to know what's coming to avoid injury as well as block with runners on but the precision isn't quite as significant. Maybe just fastball vs breaking ball rather than the exact type of breaking ball.

That said, electronic communication is really the only way. I mean if soldiers can use them to communicate in hot zone then why can't a pitcher do it?

Overall, my question is the value of a catcher going forward. Framing will be less critical with electronic strike zone and calling a game less important with comms (pitching coach likely handles that). The catcher will become a lot art and becoming a bat with a big arm and blocking skills will be all that matters.

A wristband with buttons on the catcher and an ear piece for the pitcher could work.

The reason you look to move away from traditional signs isn't that they can't figure out ways, it's that it slows down the game, which has been a major problem.

If technology can remove the cheating while speeding up the game, why not explore it?

Allowing electronic communication to speed up the game would not be classified as "preventing sign stealing".

Also, sign stealing isn't cheating. Which you continue to claim.

It's not technically cheating. However it has always been allowed because there has been no real way up until now to really prevent it from happening, or prove that a team is doing it.

I love baseball, but if you could remove the aspect of sign stealing from it, I would love it more. Being good at baseball should not have to include your ability to break codes, come up with ways to convey information that the other team is trying to legitimately communicate with each other. The "spirit" of the game should not include stealing private information from the other team that was not meant for you.

Maybe being good at baseball shouldn't include having to secretly talk to another player.

TexasRebel said:

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Maybe being good at baseball shouldn't include having to secretly talk to another player.

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Maybe being good at football shouldn't include secretly telling your offensive teammates the play.

An analogy would be not signaling in plays from the sidelines.

TexasRebel said:

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An analogy would be not signaling in plays from the sidelines.

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That's not a good analogy.

One could argue that the Players on the field should be able to call the plays, and communicate it to their teammates just like the offense.

We are talking about a player communicating the play to another player, where both need to know.

Being a good baseball batter means you should be able to hit a pitch that comes into the strike zone without knowing for sure what is coming.

TexasRebel said:

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Allowing electronic communication to speed up the game would not be classified as "preventing sign stealing".

Also, sign stealing isn't cheating. Which you continue to claim.

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I've never claimed stealing signs is cheating.

ORAggieFan said:

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If technology can remove the cheating while speeding up the game, why not explore it?

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Yes you did.

Texaggie7nine said:

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TexasRebel said:

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An analogy would be not signaling in plays from the sidelines.

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That's not a good analogy.

One could argue that the Players on the field should be able to call the plays, and communicate it to their teammates just like the offense.

We are talking about a player communicating the play to another player, where both need to know.

Being a good baseball batter means you should be able to hit a pitch that comes into the strike zone without knowing for sure what is coming.

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So you want to allow huddles between plays?
Figuring out how to secretly indicate to the rest of the players what you want to do without shouting, "Hey, Tommy, throw a curve! Bobby, move to your right!" Is part of baseball.

That communication needs to be subtle and encrypted though. Otherwise you broadcast it to anyone who cares to understand it.

TexasRebel said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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If technology can remove the cheating while speeding up the game, why not explore it?

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Yes you did.

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That in no way says that stealing signs is cheating in and of itself is cheating. I've been very consistent that reading signs or tipped pitches w/o the use of technology is within the game. That said, I'm not against preventing those through technology for the trade off of speeding up the game. Baseball isn't about decoding signals for success, I'm happy to remove that whether it's currently allowed or illegal through technology.

http://www.hearingandbalancelab.com/2015/09/origin-hand-signals-baseball/

It is part of baseball, but trying to go out of your way to figure out the code your opponent is using so you can steal their plays shouldn't be.

Sports is a big business with billions of dollars at stake. MIT grads and very smart people are going to pour over each and every possible way to exploit the other team's ability to communicate with each other without giving away clues as to what they are saying. It makes since that since technology is making it easier to exploit the system, why not use technology to level the field and make baseball about baseball and not information stealing.

Would you be okay with allowing interception and decryption of electronic communication through FCC legal means by opposing clubs?

Texaggie7nine said:

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TexasRebel said:

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An analogy would be not signaling in plays from the sidelines.

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That's not a good analogy.

One could argue that the Players on the field should be able to call the plays, and communicate it to their teammates just like the offense.

We are talking about a player communicating the play to another player, where both need to know.

Being a good baseball batter means you should be able to hit a pitch that comes into the strike zone without knowing for sure what is coming.

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The bold part is a terrible take, and we shouldn't let it pass.

In football, the defense studies plays and tendencies in order to know exactly what the offense is running. That is exactly the whole point of them watching film. Offense does so vice versa. The defense also keys into snap count - it's why QBs invented the hard count.

In basketball, you do watch film for similar reasons. You learn how to recognize sets so you can have an advantage in defending them.

Why is a batter knowing a pitchers tendencies or figuring out a teams sings any different than that football and basketball do?

If I go along your premise, batters should never watch film of pitchers to find their tells. They should never chart pitches to find their tendencies. They should just stroll up to the plate, try determine the spin of the ball, where it will end up, and decide to swing or not in less than a second. If you can't do that, you're not a good ball player.

TexasRebel said:

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Would you be okay with allowing interception and decryption of electronic communication through FCC legal means by opposing clubs?

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Of course not. Just like I wouldn't in football which has been fine with helmet mics for many years.

Texaggie7nine said:

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It is part of baseball, but trying to go out of your way to figure out the code your opponent is using so you can steal their plays shouldn't be.

Sports is a big business with billions of dollars at stake. MIT grads and very smart people are going to pour over each and every possible way to exploit the other team's ability to communicate with each other without giving away clues as to what they are saying. It makes since that since technology is making it easier to exploit the system, why not use technology to level the field and make baseball about baseball and not information stealing.

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Someone will always figure out a way to steal signs. Both offense and defense should be able to do it.

Hell, if anything, the tech that is currently is out there is making it even harder on the batter. Being able to know a hitters tendencies in order to shift and take away more hits - should the defense be allowed to shift?

That is exactly why I said "for sure".

It's only smart to study pitchers and see how they pitch in certain situations and with certain types of batters ect. It makes complete sense to do what you can with public knowledge to try to determine the odds of what will be thrown.

What shouldn't be part of the game is getting clued in to know exactly what is coming based off of stealing information from a hand signal meant only for communication for the pitcher.

Beat40 said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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It is part of baseball, but trying to go out of your way to figure out the code your opponent is using so you can steal their plays shouldn't be.

Sports is a big business with billions of dollars at stake. MIT grads and very smart people are going to pour over each and every possible way to exploit the other team's ability to communicate with each other without giving away clues as to what they are saying. It makes since that since technology is making it easier to exploit the system, why not use technology to level the field and make baseball about baseball and not information stealing.

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Someone will always figure out a way to steal signs. Both offense and defense should be able to do it.

Hell, if anything, the tech that is currently is out there is making it even harder on the batter. Being able to know a hitters tendencies in order to shift and take away more hits - should the defense be allowed to shift?

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Make the balls go further. Make the strike zone smaller.

There are many things they could reasonably do to help take away the batter's disadvantage. But to simply just allow them to underhandedly try to figure out secret signals so they can know what is coming is no way to address the issue.

Sports should be about athleticism combined with decision making combined with teamwork. It should not be about who comes up with the best way to steal confidential information from the other team.