*****Official 2019/2020 Houston Astros offseason thread*****

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agdaddy04
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In reply to Ag_07 • 2:24p, 5/14/20
AG
Ag_07 said:
Someone should ask Blake Snell that if he's so concerned with playing for what he signed for is he gonna play an extra 1/2 year for free.

Because he signed for 5 years but looks like he'll only be playing 4.5 of it.

So...Yeah...Play what you signed for homie.

I'm thinking he doesn't realize that the payments are for games played and not just because of calendar dates being hit.
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Bulldog73
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2:28p, 5/14/20
AG
True but if he gives up 7.5 mil for year with no wear and tear so he can step up next year for the increase, he may be willing to do that.
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AggieEP
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2:51p, 5/14/20
I hate when baseball devolves into this mess. The owners are BILLIONAIRES... or part of a investment group of Multi-Millionaires, they wage their battles via prepared statements and lawyer speak while the players mouth off. The players sound stupid and t looking greedy when in reality the owners are the far more greedy ones. They put this 50/50 split out there as a way to try and sneak it through during the crisis. Short term it'd help their revenues, but long term it'd be a massive win for them to put a limit on player compensation.

This back and forth between the players and owners muddies the waters of the situation, because like I said, the owners are BILLIONAIRES, the easy thing to do here is to just adhere to the prorated structure agreed upon in March. The owners are going to get killed financially this year, unfortunately that's part of the risk of doing business, and I have no doubt the owners will ride this thing out in great shape even if they lose $50-$100 million this year. Their teams have likely increased in value that much since they bought them... so again not really feeling bad for them.

Obviously guys like Snell making 7 million this year with lots more guaranteed money on the horizon need to shut up, but in reality there are a lot of guys on the minimum salary who are still pretty much normal guys who haven't earned a million dollars yet and the owners are taking money from them as well as from Snell.

To me, at the end of the day, I pay to watch baseball players play baseball, all the revenue is created by the players and if the owners hand out the contracts, they should be bound to pay them. In fact I think the players already made a huge concession right up front with the prorated deal.

Remember that almost any decision a billionaire makes... is designed to make them richer. So I don't think their offer is in good faith at all. They knew an idiot like Snell would speak up and do their dirty work for them turning public opinion against the players.
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Ag_07
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3:04p, 5/14/20
AG
It'll be interesting to see where this goes if the union agrees to an arrangement but players like Snell say 'Nope. Not gonna happen'.

Will the season continue while that contingent sits out? Will they bring in MiLB players to take their spots? How many saying no would it take to shut it down completely?

Interesting situation to say the least.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to AggieEP • 3:06p, 5/14/20
AG
Owners have been winning the PR battle for sure.
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tjack16
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3:22p, 5/14/20
AG
I see both sides. The players already agreed to prorated salaries which is a pay cut earlier this year. Now the owners are asking for more.

I dont agree with Snell's logic of "ya man my life on da line bro fo real dawg"

But I agree with them not being willing to take another pay cut.
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Mr. White
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 3:31p, 5/14/20
Farmer1906 said:
I'm not sure I've heard Snell speak much before that. It completely changes my opinion on him.
75% of college and pro athletes will do the same for you
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CFTXAG10
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3:31p, 5/14/20
AG
There has to be some middle ground. Players have the right to negotiate, but they need to be realistic. Now isn't the time to "stick it to the owners" under the guise of a "my life is at substantial risk" facade

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YNWA_AG
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 3:38p, 5/14/20
AG
The owners agreed to pro rate the salaries to game played. The owners hold the risk. They should pay half the salary if they ply 82 games.
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expresswrittenconsent
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 3:39p, 5/14/20
CFTXAG10 said:
There has to be some middle ground. Players have the right to negotiate, but they need to be realistic. Now isn't the time to "stick it to the owners" under the guise of a "my life is at substantial risk" facade


The opposite is happening. The "new proposal" is the owners trying to take more from the players.
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YNWA_AG
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In reply to expresswrittenconsent • 3:42p, 5/14/20
AG
Paying 16.5% of their salary is ridiculous
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CFTXAG10
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In reply to expresswrittenconsent • 3:46p, 5/14/20
AG
expresswrittenconsent said:
CFTXAG10 said:
There has to be some middle ground. Players have the right to negotiate, but they need to be realistic. Now isn't the time to "stick it to the owners" under the guise of a "my life is at substantial risk" facade


The opposite is happening. The "new proposal" is the owners trying to take more from the players.
And I should clarify that the owners have to bend a little too. Like I said, there has to be some middle ground or this thing will never get going and it will be "see you next year" - my other comment had more to do with some guys like Dolittle and Snell who was clearly writing the virus off but now is saying he should get full pay because of the risk
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expresswrittenconsent
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3:49p, 5/14/20
If both sides have previously agreed to half the games for half the salary, I'm not sure why either side needs to "give a little".
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CFTXAG10
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4:15p, 5/14/20
AG

Quote:
If both sides have previously agreed to half the games for half the salary, I'm not sure why either side needs to "give a little".


imo if they don't, this season isn't going to happen. It is likely that the owners knew this proposal was DOA but wanted to make it look like they were "trying" and the players are the bad guys. I get why both sides are arguing the way they are. Players feel like the earlier agreement for half salary based on half the games is fair, whereas owners are having an aha moment over the fact that there could very well be no fans at ballparks all season long (playoffs and WS included). Manfred said gate revenue was somewhere around 40% of total revenue. That is a pretty big blow to the owners. They could easily walk and leave it at the 170 million advancement for April and May.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mr. White • 5:50p, 5/14/20
AG
Mr. White said:
Farmer1906 said:
I'm not sure I've heard Snell speak much before that. It completely changes my opinion on him.
75% of college and pro athletes will do the same for you


Idk

I'd say we're blessed with a group of non morons. Could you picture Verlander, McCullers, Bregman, Altuve, Springer, Correa, McHugh (he gone but still), Charlie (again gone), sounding like that? They're all talented outside of just baseball with their fundraising organizations and other media outlets (YouTube channels, twitch streams, podcasts, etc).
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iBrad
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In reply to AggieEP • 6:32p, 5/14/20
AG
AggieEP said:
To me, at the end of the day, I pay to watch baseball players play baseball, all the revenue is created by the players and if the owners hand out the contracts, they should be bound to pay them. In fact I think the players already made a huge concession right up front with the prorated deal.

No one should be bound to pay for work not performed. I realize it's not the players' fault, but it's not the owners', either. Baseball is entertainment. Owners and players should share the pain and no one making over a million per year should be complaining, given the current unemployment rate. Even guys making league minimum would still pocket over $100k for playing a game.

It makes the most sense to prorate for games played. The owners lose revenue for games not played. The players lose salaries for games not played. The fans get baseball back.

Lastly, everyone in the organization is responsible for creating revenue. You don't lament losing guys like Lunhow and Hinch if it's all the players.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to expresswrittenconsent • 7:09p, 5/14/20
expresswrittenconsent said:
If both sides have previously agreed to half the games for half the salary, I'm not sure why either side needs to "give a little".


Owners told players at the time that assumed stadiums had fans. So inaccurate to say they agreed to half salary
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MaxPower
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7:10p, 5/14/20
Ethically I side with the players. However, if under the agreement from March the owners will lose more money playing games than not playing them then they hold the leverage. They are truly in a position to tell the players to capitulate or take no dough for 2020.
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the last of the bohemians
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7:47p, 5/14/20
I'm confident the astros players will play, because it's not like they have anything to prove or any monkeys to get off their back.
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expresswrittenconsent
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 7:48p, 5/14/20
BMX Bandit said:
expresswrittenconsent said:
If both sides have previously agreed to half the games for half the salary, I'm not sure why either side needs to "give a little".


Owners told players at the time that assumed stadiums had fans. So inaccurate to say they agreed to half salary

Fair point, thx.
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expresswrittenconsent
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In reply to MaxPower • 7:53p, 5/14/20
MaxPower said:
Ethically I side with the players. However, if under the agreement from March the owners will lose more money playing games than not playing them then they hold the leverage. They are truly in a position to tell the players to capitulate or take no dough for 2020.

I can't imagine any scenario where other leagues are playing (NBA finishing playoffs, NFL still on schedule) and the MLB owners choose to use their "leverage" to lock out the players and cancel the season. It would be a "fire the nukes" option.
(I don't think either side wants to not play, so I think its all academic).
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to expresswrittenconsent • 7:56p, 5/14/20
Those other leagues have salary cap tied to revenue, so it's an easier negotiation. MLB players don't want that.


Side note: NBA appears nowhere near ready to return. Cancelled season wouldn't surprise me at all.
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k20dub
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8:19p, 5/14/20
AG
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Texas A&M
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8:26p, 5/14/20
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i is smart
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8:27p, 5/14/20
AG
I would honestly be shocked if this season happened after everything I've read.

I haven't seen any realistic plans proposed for MLB. The NBA is apples to oranges in regards to MLB IMO.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to i is smart • 8:35p, 5/14/20
Ban Cow Gas said:
I would honestly be shocked if this season happened after everything I've read.

I haven't seen any realistic plans proposed for MLB. The NBA is apples to oranges in regards to MLB IMO.


Not sure I follow.

if MLB hasn't proposed a realistic plan, what do you think the NBA is doing?
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CFTXAG10
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8:49p, 5/14/20
AG
Just wait until June rolls around and the paychecks stop rolling in....

Both sides need to come to the table with flexibility and get something done. Glad to see Manfred is optimistic but we need more traction with 1/2 the month about to be in the rear view mirror.
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i is smart
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 9:46p, 5/14/20
AG
BMX Bandit said:
Ban Cow Gas said:
I would honestly be shocked if this season happened after everything I've read.

I haven't seen any realistic plans proposed for MLB. The NBA is apples to oranges in regards to MLB IMO.


Not sure I follow.

if MLB hasn't proposed a realistic plan, what do you think the NBA is doing?
I'm quarantine drinking, so I don't have a point. Drunk me thinks MLB has zero chance since Bubble-Dome NBA doesn't have much of a chance.

I just miss sports and I don't see anything happening until the fall and it's honestly depressing.
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W
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10:10p, 5/14/20
AG
regarding the billionaire owners...a lot depends on how long they have owned the team and what is the status of their stadium (i.e. still making payments).

Crane paid $680 MM for the Astros in 2011. Nine years later I figure he's on the plus side of ROI.

but for owners that bought their team in the last 3 or 4 years...or built a new stadium recently (Rangers, Braves)...they have a long way to go and large monthly mortgage payments
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astros4545
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7:01a, 5/15/20
AG
Preston Tucker batting high .400s in KBO thus far

They just interviewed Kyle Tucker on the broadcast on ESPN

Also, Preston Tucker made SNL weekend update last week (2nd joke of video)
https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2020/05/11/how-tampas-preston-tucker-ended-up-on-saturday-night-live/
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AggieEP
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In reply to W • 7:58a, 5/15/20
If they are any good at being a billionaire, they worked contingencies into their lease agreements with the host cities. I'm not going to do a FOIA request to confirm, but I'd guess they can defer payments on their stadiums in case of natural disaster/pandemic.

The owners are businessmen, they probably like baseball, a few might even be real fans, but in general their "sport" is making money. Right now they are just positioning themselves so they lose less.

There's a reason we haven't heard stories about potential insolvency of teams/owners, they aren't losing money right now at a catastrophic rate. They have a team of lawyers and accountants making sure of it.
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astros4545
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In reply to AggieEP • 8:02a, 5/15/20
Ag_07
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In reply to AggieEP • 8:23a, 5/15/20
AG
Quote:
they aren't losing money right now at a catastrophic rate.

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BMX Bandit
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8:43a, 5/15/20
Quote:
they aren't losing money right now at a catastrophic rate.
what do you consider a catastrohic rate? they have likely over 95% of revenue they expected over the past 6 weeks
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CFTXAG10
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8:54a, 5/15/20
AG
I missed this article back in April when it was posted, but it does a good job of explaining the economic impact to the Astros specifically.

Link to Article

Quote:
According to Forbes' valuations, the Astros were worth $1.85 billion in 2019. The $420 million total revenue they generated was sixth highest among the 30 teams. Of that number, $180 million came from gate receipts.

Savings on player salaries will somewhat mitigate the massive gate loss. The Astros' opening day payroll, according to Spotrac, was slated to be the highest in franchise history $206,783,333.
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