redline248 said:

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This f_ckin guy. Cuz we all grew up playing with pine tar and sandpaper in our gloves to doctor the ball.

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BTW, George Brett's pine tar game jersey is up for auction on the Heritage Auctions site, with the current bid of $85k in case any of you BMA's want to bid. The bat is in the Hall of Fame, so not for sale.

Manfred said end of next week.

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https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2020/02/20/ian-kinsler-2018-red-sox-sign-stealing

Ian Kinsler, who was traded to the Red Sox at midseason in 2018 and was a member of the World Series-winning roster, was interviewed on 1310 The Ticket (based in Dallas). The now-retired Kinsler downplayed the Red Sox system of stealing signs, and doesn't believe the league's punishment will be severe.

"I don't know what [league investigators] are going to find, but in my opinion, it's not anything close to what's going on [in Houston]," Kinsler explained. "The Red Sox were just a very tight-knit group. When I was injected into that team in the middle of the season, it was a lot like the Rangers clubs I was on, where it was just a very tight-knit group and their system was flawless. They just had a very good system at relaying from second base to home plate. That was it. Honestly. We'll see what happens with the commissioner's report."

Kinsler also added that the league should "eliminate" the video room, which has reportedly been the source of Boston's sign-stealing scheme.

"Go play the game," Kinsler said. "After the game, you can go look at your at-bats, try to figure out what's wrong. That's what a hitting coach is for. Let him do his job. Quit running up to the video room in between at-bats to look at whatever you're looking at."

Still, Kinsler said he doesn't see any major punishment being handed down to Boston.

"I'm interested to see what happens with this whole report because I truly believe they're not going to find anything that's substantial," said Kinsler. "They might throw a small punishment out there because they did a report. I don't know. I don't know where they stand on this whole thing. We saw where they stood on the Astros thing. I just really don't see any form of punishment coming to the Red Sox. It was a very good team."

In the playoffs, it was a different story in terms of sign-stealing, according to Kinsler. Opponents consistently changed signs and disrupted any potential scheme.

"We got a game into the playoffs with the Red Sox. We couldn't run our system," Kinsler noted. "It was just too difficult."

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"If there's a video and you're going to check out your at-bat and while you're checking out your at-bat, there's a runner on second base also, and you look through your at-bat to see your personal flaws and what you're trying to fix for the next time I'm going to go back again and check out the signs and see if I can crack them," Kinsler said. "If I can, I can. If I can't, I can't."

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I guess we'll find out soon enough what portion of our punishment was related to the "egregiousness" of our relaying schemes to the hitter (ie banging) and what portion was attributable to disobeying the commissioner's memo.

mathguy86 said:

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And by the way, Kinsler just threw the Rangers under the bus, saying the Red Sox system was not as complicated as the Rangers.

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I'm sure we will see the Arlingtonians begging to vacate their American League titles now that a former player is detailing how they are also cheaters.

This is where the Astros potentially get screwed. People will admit that they used electronic devices to steal signs but they only ever relayed them through a runner on second base <cough> bull**** <cough> not via a player in the bullpen (Yankees use of bullpen phone) or via a a base coach (Samsung watch by Dodgers coach.

They have the benefit of seeing how much the Astros talked and the results. Now they can take that and talk some but circle the wagons on how it was actually used.

And dont forget resigned immediately as well....you know because his base runners were good at relaying signs...

BTW, I dont think anyone relaying signs from bases....is going to call that a system

I honestly think that the Astro's were probably the only team that was regularly getting sign data to the hitter with no one on base. I think Bos and NY systems were all to get info to runners on base. They relayed info from the relay room to the dugout to the runners on base, or something similar.

I think that is where the Astros kind of jumped the shark and why so many players are pissed. I have no doubt that those same players (that are hitters) would use something like the trashcan system in an instant if they thought they could get away with it and that is where most of the anger comes from.

I think where they Astros screwed themselves is that they played the game of cheating TOO well. They had smart guys create a software to help decipher signs and they came up with a method to get info to the batter without anyone one base and apparently difficult to detect by the opponents or other fans.

It's all "gamesmanship" until someone finds a really big loophole advantage and you aren't that team.

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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Disagree. I think there are plenty of ways to get signs to a otter that were being used

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Agree. And all sings are seeming to point to this. People digging through other teams and hearing whistles during breaking balls, Joe Girardi slipping and saying the dugout relayed info to the the bat...to the runner, etc.

What I don't understand is this: if everyone is doing this and everyone knows about it, it's no longer an advantage. If I'm Fiers and the A's, and I know the Astros are stealing my signs in Houston, solution seams pretty damn simple to me. In most simplistic terms, when the bases are empty, 1 is fastball, 2 is curve, 3 is changeup. Ok, for this batter, this inning, whatever, lets do 2 is fastball. I mean one banged trashcan when you really get a high and tight fastball will weaken this scheme.....

I think we were one of the smarter teams in terms of figuring out how to effectively relay signs to the hitters. I agree that other teams were doing it and the teams that weren't doing it would have if they had thought of it. But we were also the dumbest team in terms of making it so traceable and eliminating any prayer of deniability. If anything, that's our greatest sin.

I fully expect the Red Sox report to come out tomorrow afternoon around 5:00. The classic Friday news dump.

MaxPower said:

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What is so significant about only doing it with a runner on second? Its ok to use electronics 20% of the time but not 100%? I can understand if you want to give a *slightly* less significant punishment based on prevalence, but it doesn't change the fact that it was cheating and, has been mentioned, was cheating by the same damn team who was caught and got the rule implemented in the first place.

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I don't see that big of a difference, I'm just trying to get into the heads of some of these hitters that are going off on the Astros. I really find it hard to believe that they would be so vocal and angry if they didn't have some reasoning in their heads that what the Astros did was worse. And the only way that makes sense is that they weren't tipping off batters with no one on base.

. . . said:

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"Whatever, I don't care," he said. "I've dealt with a lot of death threats before. It's just another thing on my plate."

Fiers also isn't worried about any backlash from the Astros, saying, "If I'm worried about any retaliation, I'm not going to be ready for the season."

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But is he worried about being arrested as a sex offender?

Thought the commissioner said next Friday?

n_touch said:

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Thought the commissioner said next Friday?

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You're right. It was "end of the month."
Well, same thing. Still expecting the Friday news dump when it does come out.

In fairness, MLB issued our investigation results on the day after four NFL playoff games and on the same day as the CFB national championship.

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The Houston pitching staff wasn't implicated in the scheme by the league's investigation, but reaped the riches of more run support and greater team success

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Except that fangraphs analysis said we didn't benefit from more runs scored, but I doubt everyone (the media) cares enough to read that

AustinCountyAg said:

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Deluxe said:

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I think we were one of the smarter teams in terms of figuring out how to effectively relay signs to the hitters. I agree that other teams were doing it and the teams that weren't doing it would have if they had thought of it. But we were also the dumbest team in terms of making it so traceable and eliminating any prayer of deniability. If anything, that's our greatest sin.

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this.


seriously banging on a freaking trashcan from the dugout? It's almost too stupid to be believable.

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I think a lot of the outrage comes from the fact that we did get so open about it. That also lends itself to believing that they did not care if they got caught since all the other teams are doing it as well. Being so open will cost people their jobs, there are fringe players that were benefiting from it all across the league and here comes the stupid Astros doing it in the open for everyone to know exactly what is going on. Now that everyone is under the microscope they can't do it and people will lose money in the long run.

Texaggie7nine said:

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MaxPower said:

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What is so significant about only doing it with a runner on second? Its ok to use electronics 20% of the time but not 100%? I can understand if you want to give a *slightly* less significant punishment based on prevalence, but it doesn't change the fact that it was cheating and, has been mentioned, was cheating by the same damn team who was caught and got the rule implemented in the first place.

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I don't see that big of a difference, I'm just trying to get into the heads of some of these hitters that are going off on the Astros. I really find it hard to believe that they would be so vocal and angry if they didn't have some reasoning in their heads that what the Astros did was worse. And the only way that makes sense is that they weren't tipping off batters with no one on base.

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That reason is on the hands of the Astros players. They didn't win a ring.

I teach as well, Teen psychology and Nutrition. I have to let kids retest at least three times before failing them, even when cheating so that's a stupid comparison.

The is about money, like everything else in our country. Someone had to take the fall to protect the overall brand but if it's too many revealed than it backfires. Don't get it twisted as to what this is all about as the media spins your head.

Speaking of media and being a psych major, if I'm Altuve I play the **** out of them. Based on the splits I come out and say, "Yes we cheated at MMP in 2017, and I'm regretful that we did because it lowered my numbers that year."

Play their ass, remember, some members of the media lose money when the MLB starts losing anything. We see facts everyday on our phones with scores and highlights. That's not the media's job anymore when "reporting."

03_Aggie said:

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This is where the Astros potentially get screwed. People will admit that they used electronic devices to steal signs but they only ever relayed them through a runner on second base <cough> bull**** <cough> not via a player in the bullpen (Yankees use of bullpen phone) or via a a base coach (Samsung watch by Dodgers coach.

They have the benefit of seeing how much the Astros talked and the results. Now they can take that and talk some but circle the wagons on how it was actually used.

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Yeah, it's unfortunate but I don't see any other teams' players breaking ranks in exchange for immunity. They know they won't be punished whether they talk or not, so why admit anything.

Just deny, and see what the league can prove.

Once you get through all the poor Dodgers crap in this article - and it's thick - I agree with Kershaw in this... it's the World Series, change your signs.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/20/astros-cheating-scandal-clayton-kershaw?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SI%20Extra%20022020&utm_term=SI%20Extra%20-%20USE%20THIS%20-%20List

That is where the media is so stupid, naive, or just plain on the take. Ask the follow up question. How did you know about their signs. Or just surmise that the Astros knew that the Red Sox, Yankees and dodgers had surveillance also.

safety guy said:

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That is where the media is so stupid, naive, or just plain on the take. Ask the follow up question. How did you know about their signs. Or just surmise that the Astros knew that the Red Sox, Yankees and dodgers had surveillance also.

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Kinda like when players ***** about Astros players not being punished. The logical next statement/question is: Well, you know YOUR player's union demanded immunity, right?

But they're too chicken **** to ask it because they don't want to lose access to that player....