So, wait a second. You're telling me that Houston's Leading Information Source was wrong?

Mind blown.

Harry Dunne said:

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I don't think it's insincere. It's been done before. Although we have our share of bunghole fans, we are for the most part gracious & it's probably shocking to their fans to come here and not be treated the way they are in the NE. I don't feel bad about not being idiots and throwing batteries. We showed up & were loud as balls. We did our job.

But I do agree that it makes me feel about as good as "winning halftime" or having "classy fans" when we are getting curbstomped in football.

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I agree, the baseball fans in the NE are terrible. Phillies, BoSox, Yankees. On top of that, the Nats had to play the Cardinals and Dodgers this postseason who are largely considered the two worst fan bases in all of MLB, which is saying something after what we went through with NYY this year.

We are from Texas and, in general, manners are expected of us. Furthermore, most true Astro fans still very much remember our tank job and it is kind of hard to be a dick if you lived through that. However, as on-field success continues, there are more and more fans who either forget how bad it was to be an Astro fan during the majority of the first 50 years or were never fans during those crap times.

I love to give Rangers fans hell, and I expect them to give it back; but I am appreciative that we play most of our games each year against Rangers, Mariners, A's, and Angels because I believe all of our fan bases are welcoming to opposition versus dumping beers on them and hurling profanities and insults at them a la the NE teams, Cubs, LAD, et al.

Now, the internet warriors that expect our bats to hit 1.000 with RISP and our pitches to have a 0.0 WHIP are a different story...

I wish the athletic wasn't a pay site so I could link the articles they put out about the Astros...

BMX Bandit said:

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the PEOPLE in the NE are terrible

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It just depends what kind of terrible you can best tolerate. I have lived in both places and I don't think people in the NE are any less decent than here once you get to know them, they just (in general) aren't nearly as interested in the appearance of gentility. All in all I'd rather people at least be civil and have decent manners to my face, but IMO the main difference is that folks here care a lot more about appearances while in the NE you can see (and hear) an a-hole coming from a mile away. Some of the worst and most dishonest people I know in Houston are extremely active in their churches. Many churches here seem to me to be a lot about networking. No different than all of the NE crime gangs being devout Catholics, I guess...but I don't think the mobsters were putting "He has Risen!" signs up in their yard and talking about "how blessed" they are that they were able to knock off that shipment of furs.

There is a spot entering my area where a 65 becomes a 45 and lanes merge - I have more than once had a luxury SUV with my kids' school's sticker on it gun it and try to reenact a Mad Max scene rather than let me merge in the natural flow of traffic and sometimes I get a bonus middle finger through their back window. Several times I have caught up to them or later seen them in the same car and it has turned out to be a "friend" that is an otherwise good person (as far as I know!)...and you obviously wouldn't have had a clue of that through road rage interaction.

Anyway I think the NE-ers opinion of us is that we are (in general) two-faced. I tend to think most people are decent but I don't think either side is much different when no one is looking.

Marvin said:

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Not really an offseason topic, but Mrs. Marvin and I have scheduled our big baseball trip for next year. Wrapping an American history experience into this one:

9/20 Braves at Phillies
We will spend a couple of days exploring Philadelphia (Continental Congress, Liberty Bell, etc)
9/21 Rangers at Mets
I get to boo Odor in a new stadium. Will knock about a few Revolutionary War haunts like Fraunces Tavern.
9/22 Astros at Yankees
The real point of this trip is to watch our Astros play in the Bronx- whoop!
9/23 Blue Jays at Red Sox
Explore Boston and the area (Salem, Plymouth, etc) for a couple of days before heading home

We really wanted to do southern California in 2020, but I didn't see a weekend with the Astros there that also had the Padres, Angels and Dodgers all in town. Anyway, this trip will put us at 10 ballparks in 2 years. In 2019 we went to Arlington (saw the Astros), Atlanta, KC, St. Louis (saw the Astros), DC and of course MMP. At some point we want to see the Astros in each stadium, but the first goal is to just see a game in each.

Will also try to get up to Mimmick Maid, but I only saw one weekend series with the Astros playing and that happens the weekend before the trip above. It's low hanging fruit, so we may put that off.

If anyone has suggestions on must sees let me know. I really wanted to work in Cooperstown since we will be up there, but not sure yet.

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That sounds great. I was looking at the West Coast swing on our first road trip - Oakland for a Wednesday Astros@A's day game followed by a weekend series Astros@LAA with a drive down the coast in between. I was thinking about catching Giants, LAD, and/or Padres depending on who is playing when/where.

agsquirrel97 said:

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That sounds great. I was looking at the West Coast swing on our first road trip - Oakland for a Wednesday Astros@A's day game followed by a weekend series Astros@LAA with a drive down the coast in between. I was thinking about catching Giants, LAD, and/or Padres depending on who is playing when/where.

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Absolutely, that's a great trip. Hopefully everything is not burned to the ground by then. Prayers for those folks.

My issue is finding a window that maximizes the teams playing at home out there, coinciding with when the Astros are there, and hopefully doing so around a weekend. We are looking at a south trip (SD, LAD, LAA) and then a north trip to catch SF, Oakland and a hop up to Seattle. It will happen at some point!

redline248 said:

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Do y'all think he's worth 2 at 9?

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I kinda think about this in two ways:

1) Do I think Chirinos is worth 2 years, $9 million to some team? Yes. He was the 9th best fWAR catcher in MLB last year and can bring some good postseason experience to a squad that's looking to take the next step.

2) Do I think the Astros will be willing to pay him that? Not 100% sure but lean no. I think Luhnow will see it as kinda risky to give a second year to a catcher who will be 36 next year. And I think the front office will generally be looking at the catcher position as a spot to save money. Between Maldy, Castro, Gomes, Avila, Vogt, etc... someone will be willing to take a 1 year deal for cheap.

Didn't we just draft a catcher? Assuming he has major league potential, how long should we expect it takes him to develop? What other guys are in the minors, besides Stubbs? Is Stubbs a legitimate candidate to start?

a 2-year deal for Chirinos is very risky.

I'd rather go 1 year for $5 MM

redline248 said:

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Didn't we just draft a catcher? Assuming he has major league potential, how long should we expect it takes him to develop? What other guys are in the minors, besides Stubbs? Is Stubbs a legitimate candidate to start?

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I don't think Stubbs is an everyday catcher in the majors, though I think he could develop into a serviceable backup. Part of the reason we drafted Korey Lee higher than most analysts projected is because we're very very thin on catchers in the minor leagues. Lee probably won't be ready for another 2 years minimum so IMO we'll be filling the catcher position with veterans on a year-to-year basis until he is.

redline248 said:

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Didn't we just draft a catcher? Assuming he has major league potential, how long should we expect it takes him to develop? What other guys are in the minors, besides Stubbs? Is Stubbs a legitimate candidate to start?

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Yes, Korey Lee. 21 years old from Cal. Drafted in 1st Rd.

Finished the year at short A ball - .268/.359/.371 slash line.

He will probably not be ready until after this year. Maybe a September call up in 2021

bearkatag15 said:

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redline248 said:

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Didn't we just draft a catcher? Assuming he has major league potential, how long should we expect it takes him to develop? What other guys are in the minors, besides Stubbs? Is Stubbs a legitimate candidate to start?

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Yes, Korey Lee. 21 years old from Cal. Drafted in 1st Rd.

Finished the year at short A ball - .268/.359/.371 slash line.

He will probably not be ready until after this year. Maybe a September call up in 2021

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Isn't the September roster increases going away next year?

Ah yes that is correct. Nevermind then. Probably won't see him until 2022 unless he sky rockets up the ranks next year.

Thanks for posting that stuff Bearkat. Regardless of whether or not we retain Cole, it will be very interesting to watch his free agency play out.

I agree with those who say there's a 0.001% chance of re-signing Cole.

There's a number of complexities that would have to be ironed out even before entering the bidding. Then we'd have to actually bid the highest number. Crane alluded to a very good point in that video which is that Boras might look for a 8 year, $290 million deal and hold the market hostage until February if no one steps up. Are we willing to put all of our offseason plans on hold until then? Are we willing to make the contingency moves needed to retain Cole without a guarantee that he's staying? I think not but who knows.

Complexity #1: Clearing space in 2020. I think this is the easiest issue to solve. Greinke and Reddick would have to be dealt and we likely can't resign Will Harris/address bullpen, but we could make it work.

Complexity #2: Clearing space long term. We already have Altuve/Bregman locked up through 2024 at close to $30 million/year and Springer likely will be too (probably closer to $25 million). Add in Cole at $35-40 million and there's basically no chance we could re-sign Correa long term. We'd have very little long term flexibility for anyone else either.

Complexity #3: What do we do with Correa if he's not going to be here long term? Do we trade him now while he still has two years of control and we could get the highest return? Do we ride out the next two years with him while our window is open and lose him for nothing?

Complexity #4: Do we want to commit $35-40 million to ANY pitcher through 2027? I think Jeff Luhnow would say a giant "F no" and kind of hinted at that during his end of year press conference. I tend to agree.

Will be very interesting to follow though.

An offer from houston at 32/yr would be about the same from the clubs mentioned in the article.

^correct

I'm perfectly fine with us trading Correa. He's going to be expensive to keep, and we would be just fine at SS with Bregman, and Diaz and Toro could platoon at 3rd. But that assumes that we keep Springer. If we trade Correa and Springer ends up walking.. then I'm pissed.

My strategy to ensure a highly competitive present and future is as follows. I'm in the boat of wanting long term playoff caliber teams, a steady clubhouse, even if it costs us not being the overall best team next year.

1. Trade Reddick. The best offer you get is worth it, no matter what it is. Even eating $5M of his salary would be worth it.

2. Trade Correa for high potential prospects. If you don't get the offer you are looking for now, wait until the deadline. But there's a chance he gets injured again and his stock drops. You might even be able to get an "Astros type" SP who has under performed thus far but can be fixed as part of the package.

After those two moves.. we'd be in the $190M - $195M total payroll range. $13M - $18M under the cap.

With Brantley's $16M gone after 2020, we would have plenty of room to sign Springer.

I don't think there's any way we can keep Springer AND Correa without patching together a bargain starting pitching staff every year starting in 2021.

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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I'm one of the most outspoken critics on Correa on this board. That said, trading him right now while he's "cheap" and we are in our window would be incredibly silly.

The only way you trade him is if it gets major pieces that help you win now. Trading him and not signing springer would be absolutely insane.

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I hear you. But having him for two years, with all his injury risks, and then getting nothing for him.. versus trading him now for a huge return and being able to put his current and future salaries to work on more pressing needs..

It's not crazy scenario to think about. You can make an argument either way.

I'm of the opinion that we are not in a "window".. we still have the ability to put together a long term, year in and year out contender. But continuing to trade prospects and hoard guys late in their arbitration years to try and win NOW will make damn sure that we build a window around ourselves.

One interesting scenario.. thought VERY unlikely.

What if we convince Cole to sign with us for $40M over 2-3 years, while highlighting his potential to still get a max type deal at the end and potentially make even more money than signing an 8 year deal right now?

And then we trade Greinke to free up the space.

mazag08 said:

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One interesting scenario.. thought VERY unlikely.

What if we convince Cole to sign with us for $40M over 2-3 years, while highlighting his potential to still get a max type deal at the end and potentially make even more money than signing an 8 year deal right now?

And then we trade Greinke to free up the space.

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I like the idea, but no way Cole gives up the other $168 million just to net an extra $12 million over the next 3 years. The only math I see working on this, if I'm in Crane's seat, is to back load an 8-year deal with the full intent of selling the franchise in the next 3. Get the immediate benefit and leave the bill for the next guy.