AJ Hinch blew the World Series by taking out Zack Greinke

6,350 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by rgag12
BleacherRat
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From Larry Brown Sports

The Houston Astros had an ace on the mound who was cruising and pitching one of the most defining games of his life, and their quest for a championship was spoiled by an overzealous and unnecessary pitching change by manager A.J. Hinch.

Zack Greinke showed up with his best form in Game 7 of the World Series on Wednesday night. He was mixing up his pitches, had the Washington Nationals completely off balance, and was dealing. He had a shutout going until the seventh inning, when he allowed a solo home run to the incredible Anthony Rendon. Then he walked Juan Soto one of the Nats' best hitters.

Giving up a home run and walk to those two excellent hitters isn't great, but is almost somewhat expected for any pitcher facing them. Greinke had only thrown 80 pitches and was mowing through Washington otherwise. But Hinch decided to yank his starter in favor of Will Harris rather than let Greinke continue. The move backfired.

The next batter was Howie Kendrick, who gave the Nats their first lead of the game with a 2-run home run. Washington did not look back they added another run in the eighth and two more in the ninth to win it 6-2.
The kind of game Greinke was delivering is what you dream of as a manager and pitcher in a Game 7. Greinke was in top form. Giving up a home run and walk to two of the best players in the postseason is not a sign your pitcher is losing it. It was too early to say that. Given how great he was going and how few pitches he had thrown, Hinch should have let Greinke face one more batter. If the ace gave up an extra base hit, then I would have pulled him, but after having difficulty with two tough batters, it was too early to say he had lost it.
And before you tell me it's easy to say all this in hindsight, I actually said it before the home run by Kendrick.



Hinch blew the World Series with the pitching change, it's that simple. The Nats earned the win, but got some major help.
Gig 'em!
BleacherRat
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By the way, I can't get over how a previous Houston resident put the nail in the Astro's coffin:

Anthony Michael Rendon (/rndon/, born June 6, 1990) is an American baseball third baseman for the Washington Nationals of Major League Baseball (MLB). Rendon played college baseball for the Rice University Owls, where he won the 2010 Dick Howser Trophy. Rendon was selected sixth overall in the 2011 Major League Baseball draft by the Nationals.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Rendon#cite_note-martin-1][1][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Rendon#cite_note-Duarte-2][2][/url] He made his MLB debut in 2013.

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Gig 'em!
BMX Bandit
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Hot take is hot!!!
Aggietaco
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AG
I don't know a darn thing about baseball, only watched 7 games this season (the series) and thought the same thing.
AgPediRPh
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AG
Bad decision. But the Astros stranding baserunners all series long didn't help much either.
Ag_07
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AG
I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.
BMX Bandit
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Exactly right.

Criticize the move all you want, but saying it's why the lost shows a lot of ignorance.

Harris have you the hope run & bats couldn't do jack with RISP.
jopatura
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AG
It wasn't the Greinke pull that lost the game.

It was letting Osuna start the 8th inning. The score was still 3-2 at that point. Honestly you just put Cole in and you have 6 more AB's with your top
of the lineup coming up. Maybe it wasn't the situation you hoped for Cole, but you take that chance and put the game in your players' hands.
Boiling Denim
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Will Harris has now had two of the biggest blown opportunities in Astros history

2015 ALDS Game 4 and last night

Shouldn't we be shipping him off to the farm with Old Yeller and Brad Lidge

How can anyone stomach seeing him in an Astros uniform is beyond me
Ag_07
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AG
I can

ERA
2015 - 1.90
2016 - 2.25
2017 - 2.98
2018 - 3.49
2019 - 1.50

BAA
2015 - .168
2016 - .220
2017 - .249
2018 - .226
2019 - .196

If that's a pitcher you want to ship off to pasture then I'm not sure what to tell you.
jopatura
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AG
Harris was overused by Hinch this time around. Everyone blamed the delay for the home run last night, but it was coming.
Harry Dunne
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Boiling Denim said:

Will Harris has now had two of the biggest blown opportunities in Astros history

2015 ALDS Game 4 and last night

Shouldn't we be shipping him off to the farm with Old Yeller and Brad Lidge

How can anyone stomach seeing him in an Astros uniform is beyond me
He definitely crapped the bed both of those times but in between he has been one of the best RP in baseball. He was also having a standing postseason until that moment.

If you're going to throw Harris under the bus, you should throw JV in there. Harris might've put the nail in the coffin but JV was the corpse. Reddick has also been absolute trash in the playoffs his entire career. Correa had some big hits and made some nice plays but he struck out 27 times. If any of those guys had shown up we would have won the series

As always, all the team loss was a team effort.
safety guy
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AG
We got 1 guy on base from the 7th inning on. We put no pressure on them late and they put it on us. We crumbled and they thrived. I'm not saying it was a bad move or good move. Bottom line, by the time that move was made, it likely was going to have to take more than 2 runs to win the game.
astros4545
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AG
Ag_07 said:

I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.


Harris made a perfect pitch

Literally the pitch could not have been more low and away and a strike

Sometimes professional players make great plays

I hate everyone
aggie813
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astros4545 said:

Ag_07 said:

I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.


Harris made a perfect pitch

Literally the pitch could not have been more low and away and a strike

Sometimes professional players make great plays

I hate everyone

No, he was tipping pitches.... Isn't that the narrative for these playoffs?
kb2001
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AG
I don't think AJ had any intention of letting Greinke go through the lineup a 3rd time. The fact that he was still out there in the 7th at all is a testament to how well he was pitching. Every inning from the 5th on I was saying to myself "please don't pull Greinke, please don't pull Greinke". He was pitching the game of his life, his pitch count was low, and he'd really only made one bad pitch all game.

Harris was one of the best relievers in baseball all season, and in the postseason. However, he'd been used a lot lately, and had given up a HR in game 6. He was still the best choice. The pitch to Kendrick was a perfect one, it was just good hitting, both in his plan to wait and drive it opposite field, and his execution in doing so.

The biggest mistake to me was leaving Osuna in too long in the 8th. His pitch count was getting high, he was at 29 after the Rendon flyout with a runner on 2nd. I told my wife Osuna's count was getting high and he needed to get out of there. I'd have brought Joe Smith or Pressly in at that point to finish the inning.

Pitching decisions aside, the real problem this game was hitting with RISP. This series was so backwards, both teams were hitting well on the road and neither could hit well at home. I think for the Astros that mainly has to do with facing Scherzer and Strasburg in all 4 home games. Those two delivered the performances that everyone was expecting out of Verlander and Cole.

Premium
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AG
astros4545 said:

Ag_07 said:

I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.


Harris made a perfect pitch

Literally the pitch could not have been more low and away and a strike

Sometimes professional players make great plays

I hate everyone


It's not about the location of an any one pitch. It's about the sequence of pitches, it's about the arm angle, it's about the movement... it's about the confidence boost of removing a guy who dominated your lineup all night and replacing them with the guy you hit a bomb on the night before... it's about many more things than the location!
BMX Bandit
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tunefx said:

Wow! As a Nats fan, this is like having a personal tears thread!

Hindsight is always 20/20. However, I was surprised by the number of RISP the Astros had throughout the seven games. That said, I would have never bet against Verlander. Especially twice.

Mr. Lamar/Rice (Rendon) did what he's done all season. Nothing short of remarkable. Him being from the greatest state is why I wear his jersey.

Since most here will click ignore or tell me to GTFO, Go Cowboys!!


When the showed they graphic of his number late in elimination games, my jaw dropped. his numbers under that pressure are unreal.

no GTFO, and Go Cowboys!
astros4545
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AG
Rendons homer off Harris was literally the softest homer hit all year in baseball

I'm not gonna **** on Harris because Kendrick made a great swing at a perfect pitch
tunefx
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AG
I told my wife after the first inning that ZG was on his game and that our chance would come when he was pulled. I was shocked how quickly he was pulled. He's the outlier on the staff which makes batters very uncomfortable due to his low velocity pitches. IMHO replacing him with Cole or anyone would have been to the Nats advantage as pitching would have returned to the mean thus making Nats batters comfortable again.
W
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AG
last night showed the problem with relying heavily on analytics for managerial decisions..

once the game goes off-script or situations arise for which the numbers don't have a solution...the manager struggles

BMX Bandit
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W said:

last night showed the problem with relying heavily on analytics for managerial decisions..

once the game goes off-script or situations arise for which the numbers don't have a solution...the manager struggles


completely disagree. Hinch has said Harris is his panic button. That move was a very "feel" move.
spaceman
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AG
Sometimes you do the right thing and still lose. The fact you lost doesn't mean what you did was wrong. Blind luck is a big part of it - always has been, always will be. If it weren't, every series of every sport would be a sweep because the better team would always win.
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.
Rascal
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AG
astros4545 said:

Ag_07 said:

I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.


Harris made a perfect pitch

Literally the pitch could not have been more low and away and a strike

Sometimes professional players make great plays

I hate everyone
Not an Astros fan, but I agree with this take.

Simply an unbelievable hit by Howie Kendrick. Anytime a batter hits an opposite field HR on a breaking pitch on the outer half of the plate, you really cannot blame the pitcher much. At least you cannot say "he blew it".

I did think it was odd to take out Greinke if you're not replacing him with Cole though.

Whatever, the Astros offense still let them down in the final innings.
diehard03
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Quote:

Whatever, the Astros offense still let them down in the final innings.

Incorrect. They let them down in the first 6 innings.

It's good to see smart Astros fans over here, instead of the chaos in their thread.

AJ made the right calls. They didn't work.
diehard03
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Conversely, at one time of the game, Scherzer gave up 4? 100+mph hits in a row and Martinez kept him in.

Sometimes, the wrong decision works. Doesn't make it the right one.
Kellso
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diehard03 said:

Conversely, at one time of the game, Scherzer gave up 4? 100+mph hits in a row and Martinez kept him in.

Sometimes, the wrong decision works. Doesn't make it the right one.

No kidding. Scherzer looked nervous as hell throughout the game. I was positive the Astros were going to win after the 6th inning.
8T2
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kb2001 said:

I don't think AJ had any intention of letting Greinke go through the lineup a 3rd time. The fact that he was still out there in the 7th at all is a testament to how well he was pitching. Every inning from the 5th on I was saying to myself "please don't pull Greinke, please don't pull Greinke". He was pitching the game of his life, his pitch count was low, and he'd really only made one bad pitch all game.

Harris was one of the best relievers in baseball all season, and in the postseason. However, he'd been used a lot lately, and had given up a HR in game 6. He was still the best choice. The pitch to Kendrick was a perfect one, it was just good hitting, both in his plan to wait and drive it opposite field, and his execution in doing so.

The biggest mistake to me was leaving Osuna in too long in the 8th. His pitch count was getting high, he was at 29 after the Rendon flyout with a runner on 2nd. I told my wife Osuna's count was getting high and he needed to get out of there. I'd have brought Joe Smith or Pressly in at that point to finish the inning.

Pitching decisions aside, the real problem this game was hitting with RISP. This series was so backwards, both teams were hitting well on the road and neither could hit well at home. I think for the Astros that mainly has to do with facing Scherzer and Strasburg in all 4 home games. Those two delivered the performances that everyone was expecting out of Verlander and Cole.


Read this again. Almost everything here is spot on. You dance with who brung ya. Harris was nails all postseason. Even throwing Cole out there was dicey. He has never pitched in relief, and he was on two days rest. No telling what you get.

Houston was 0-4 against their big guns, and Washington was 3-1 against ours. That's really the difference in this series. Sometimes you get beat by great pitchers.
docb
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AG
Too many runners left on base. I don't fault pulling Greinke. Will Harris has been good. It's just the way the game goes sometimes.
diehard03
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To continue bringing up the pain:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/will-harris-played-well-didnt-get-rewarded/
cablinaggie
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AG
diehard03 said:

To continue bringing up the pain:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/will-harris-played-well-didnt-get-rewarded/


Man I thought I had turned the page but now I'm kind of depressed all over again. Thanks for that.
diehard03
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Quote:

Man I thought I had turned the page but now I'm kind of depressed all over again. Thanks for that.

You shouldn't be. You made the right choices and they just didn't work.

You got beat by a half court jumper, essentially.
SquirrellyDan
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AG
Rascal said:

astros4545 said:

Ag_07 said:

I'll be the one to disagree

You want to pull a guy before the wheels come because if it gets to that point pulling him is too late.

With that said he pulled ZG after a HR and a walk and he pulled him for the one of the best BP arms in the league and the guy who's been an absolute stud over the course of the playoffs.

Harris shlt the bed when his number was called.


Harris made a perfect pitch

Literally the pitch could not have been more low and away and a strike

Sometimes professional players make great plays

I hate everyone
Not an Astros fan, but I agree with this take.

Simply an unbelievable hit by Howie Kendrick. Anytime a batter hits an opposite field HR on a breaking pitch on the outer half of the plate, you really cannot blame the pitcher much. At least you cannot say "he blew it".

I did think it was odd to take out Greinke if you're not replacing him with Cole though.

Whatever, the Astros offense still let them down in the final innings.
Yup. Was a great pitch. If Greinke is left in and gives up the lead, the story is "Hinche lost the game because he didn't put in a smoking hot Harris."

We left 60, SIXTY! people on base in the series. If we leave only 50, we win easily. Hinche didn't lose the series.
Agnzona
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Ultimately it was collective bats succumbing to the pressure of the moment instead of thriving. When was the last big bat explosion game? When was the last late inning comeback win this season?

I'm worried about next year because we lose Cole and someone else gets him. Correa has to has to reach his potential and Alvarez needs to put the playoffs behind him and not have a sophomore slump.
"Fort Worth where the West begins...and Dallas is where the East peters out!"
diehard03
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Quote:

Ultimately it was collective bats succumbing to the pressure of the moment instead of thriving

Blaming the bats is fine - its' what did the Astros in. But, let's not go to the silly narrative about the pressure of the moment.

Many of these guys were part of shelling LA in 2017. And let's not forget walking off the Yankees and taking Game 5 against Tampa this year.
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