***** Official Houston Astros 2019 Season Thread *****

3,732,590 Views | 74431 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by PSully97
tjholley16
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Charlie Conway said:

tjholley16 said:

I think the main issue I've seen from angels fans and people who are against Jake in this scenario is that it doesn't look like he's sliding ... they are saying it looks like he's diving at Lucroy.

It's like the targeting rule in college football. There wasn't a way to avoid hitting him like that, but he did.
off balance and spinning isn't the way you run into somebody though. Watch the video on the last page, it's pretty clear he steps one way, then the other. If you tried to do that to actually hit somebody in a sport where collisions are encouraged you would have a bad time.


I said "They think that..."

I'm just telling people who were curious as to why people are up in arms over this
n_touch
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This is only going to add fuel to this situation.

Francisco Cervelli Giving Up Cather Due to Concussions
AggiEE
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n_touch said:

AggiEE said:

Jake could have easily been injured as well due to Lucroy's mistake.
I don't see that Lucroy made a mistake. I think he went that direction on purpose hoping to get the call and they did, other than a collision and call Jake is safe. I just don't think he expected that big of a hit. We sat behind the Bullpen the other day and even from that distance, Jake is a big man. Not sure what Lucroy was thinking trying to take him on.

So he purposefully blocked the plate....hoping to get the call, when the new rule says that you can't block the plate??

Makes no sense. Only scenario is that they get a sympathy call if he gets hit hard enough, which is exactly what happened.

It's the catcher's responsibility to not block the plate. Lucroy was blocking it. Jake was going in a straight line until he had to make a decision (left or right) to avoid a collision, it just so happens he chose the same path that Lucroy did.
iBrad
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Ag_07 said:

At first I thought it was a bad call. After seeing it from multiple angles I think by the letter of the law it's was a good call but it's the rule that's whack.

I think it was the simple fact that Jake made no attempt to slide and went barreling in with the shoulder down. Think of it this way...If Jake would've just slid feet first into Lucroy would the call have been overturned the other way and interference been called? I think so.

I think all Jake has to do is slide and his run gets counted.

What do you consider a slide? Jake was about to go airborne and attempt to dive around Lucroy. Is that a slide? The contact takes place outside of the right hand batters box. With the catcher that far from the plate moving in the direction the runner chose, hard to fault the runner.

It is similar to targeting in CFB when the defender chooses his path and the receiver lowers his head into that path. You can't possibly make an adjustment in full speed. Jake did about as much as he could trying to roll back to his right. If he was trying to plow Lucroy, he would have barreled straight through him.
astros4545
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Sympathy call

Perfectly put

Luckily it didn't cost us the game
CSWendt
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Honestly, I think a huge part in the perception of this collision is that it happened on the inside part of the baseline rather the outside.

If this is outside then Jakes movement seems much less intentional and like a normal player sliding to the outside of the plate. The fact that he moved inside, which is very rare at home, makes it look worse.
Ag_07
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So you watch those replays and think that Jake was trying to slide?
superaggie73
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Yes, until Lucroy crosses into his path and Jake decided to protect himself
Deluxe
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If Jake has to take one in the back for this, so be it. Steal second, score and then celebrate in the dugout. The Angels are an incompetent organization and we will be their daddy for the next 5-10 years. They can have fun with their Japanese megastar who plays 60 games per year.

Regardless of Jake's intent, I'm glad he did it. Maybe the next catcher who plays us will think twice about blocking the plate. It's been happening more and more in baseball and the only way to stop it is to remind catchers that you risk getting knocked the F out when you do.
redline248
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When I watched the different angles my thought was Jake went inside, saw catcher move in, and planted his left foot to go back outside but was too close. Almost looked like the way a running back tries to spin to change direction.
iBrad
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100%. He was about to go Superman to the inside of Lucroy, who he thought was getting ready to block the outside of the plate. That's why he's falling forward. When Lucroy slides over, Jake plants and spins to the outside.

My question is why was Lucroy sliding to his right and dropping to his right knee? It definitely wasn't to make the catch easier. And he damn sure wouldn't have been able to make a swipe tag to the back of the plate. He was trying to block Jake, plain and simple, and paid the price.
JABQ04
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Man, the baseball experts are out in full force on Twitter. What a bunch of **** waffles out there. Hope Lucroy is ok.
Mr.Bond
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Wrong forum
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


H-Town 2017 WS Champions
irish pete ag06
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iBrad said:

100%. He was about to go Superman to the inside of Lucroy, who he thought was getting ready to block the outside of the plate. That's why he's falling forward. When Lucroy slides over, Jake plants and spins to the outside.

My question is why was Lucroy sliding to his right and dropping to his right knee? It definitely wasn't to make the catch easier. And he damn sure wouldn't have been able to make a swipe tag to the back of the plate. He was trying to block Jake, plain and simple, and paid the price.


Bingo.

Wish we had a compilation of Jake sliding. 6-5 220 running at 30 feet per second and athletic as hell. Dude is a master slider. He was totally going for the front hook since lucroy's body seemed to be moving back at first. Then lucroy decided to block the plate. Like astros4545 said above. Damn sympathy call that was made with Twitter reaction in mind instead of the actual applied rule.

Not to be Uncle Rico but I had this exact same scenario come up in high school when I scored one of my bigger runs. Catcher is set up in base path but has to slide back to try and block ball coming in from centerfielder so I planted and went airborne to the inside to score. I knew it would be impossible for the catcher to tag me on that side while scooping the ball out of the dirt at the same time.
astros4545
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Ag_07
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I don't disagree Lucroy was blocking the plate but I have a hard time seeing how Jake was attempting a slide. Once he saw Lucroy was in his way it was game on.

This is interesting

http://instagr.am/p/Bzo5IV6h6eC

***Link doesn't show the rest of the post that states that that amount of momentum is equivalent to being hit by a motorcycle at 11 mph.
n_touch
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Quote:

I don't disagree Lucroy was blocking the plate
Then it does not matter what Jake was doing. You can only block the plate with the ball. He did not have the ball and was only blocking the plate to do so. This is not on Jake. Lucroy did exactly what he was wanting to do, minus the whole getting your face crushed in thing.

**The catcher may not block the pathway of a runner attempting to score unless he has possession of the ball. If the catcher blocks the runner before he has the ball, the umpire may call the runner safe.
Farmer1906
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Ag_07 said:

So you watch those replays and think that Jake was trying to slide?
If an unbiased observer watched it quickly then it pretty much looks like Jake was trying to end Lucroy.

But after the slow-moo, an explanation from Jake, and a sense of who Jake is/his intentions I 100% think Jake was trying to slide head first, but then bailed when Lucroy moved the same way he did.
Frok
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Hopefully our pitchers get a good few days break. We are in a bad trend

ERA
April - 3.37
May - 3.43
June - 4.68
July - 4.50

Injuries caught up to us in June with hitting

Avg
April - .270
May - .278
June - .254
July - .298

Nuke LaLoosh
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Kemp has 6 bombs in 145 ABs. That seems like a lot, no?
iBrad
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It depends on what you call a slide. Jake and George often dive head first at home and don't actually contact the ground until they are at the plate, if not a little past. They are attempting to dive past the catcher and snag the plate with a finger tip.
Nuke LaLoosh
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I hope Lucroy is okay, but I don't see how anyone can watch the replay of Jake essentially studder stepping his last few steps and think he was trying to hurt the catcher.

He was absolutely trying to dive for a corner of the plate. Lucroy moving back and then forward made this situation un-winnable.
Nuke LaLoosh
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That said, I hate it when we slide head first to any base for any reason. Injury waiting to happen.
CFTXAG10
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I know Yadi wears his emotions on his sleeves, but attacking Verlander and Correa with profanity on social media is a bad look
Farmer1906
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I don't think Yadi cares.
Buck Compton
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Nuke LaLoosh said:

That said, I hate it when we slide head first to any base for any reason. Injury waiting to happen.
Are you kidding me? Sliding head first is literally the only way to be safe on some plays and is by far the most effective slide at home. Just a week or two ago a player on the other team tries the patented Bagwell curly leg slide into home and it's literally the only reason Chirinos got him out. Cost the other team a run in a close game. Can't remember who we were playing.

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
Mr.Bond
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CFTXAG10 said:

I know Yadi wears his emotions on his sleeves, but attacking Verlander and Correa with profanity on social media is a bad look



Link
I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


H-Town 2017 WS Champions
Ag_07
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I also don't think anyone cares about what Yadi thinks
CFTXAG10
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We play the Cardinals on the road July 26-28

Link to Yadi Comments
YellAg2004
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This whole thing is the same foolish exercise as trying to break down a targeting call in super slow motion.

Jake is running at 30 ft/s, has no idea where the throw is relative to home plate and the baseline, and has to make a decision when he is ~6-8 steps from home as to which side of the plate he is going to slide to. He picked the inside of the plate and Lucroy moves in the same direction. Whether Lucroy was moving to block the plate or not, there's not enough time for either to react and completely miss each other. The fact that Jake planted his left foot and tried to spin proves to me that he wasn't trying to truck him intentionally. If he was going down the line with that intention, it would have been head down, two forearms to Lucroy's chest/shoulder with a follow through.

As someone else said, this is like when you're passing someone in a hallway and you both pick the same side to pass and mirror each other for 2-3 counts, except in this instance the hallway is only ~6' wide and Jake was running at a dead sprint.

Lastly, regarding his slide, home is a hard place to judge how he was going to slide as he doesn't have to hit the ground and stop at the plate (like you would have to at 2nd or 3rd base). With his speed, he was likely going to superman it and would probably have slid all the way to the edge of the circle. It would be foolish to start his slide at the cut of the circle and 3rd baseline as he would instantly start slowing down and would give Lucroy a few more fractions of a second to make the tag.

The call got made because it looked bad, just like how several BS targeting calls get made. You can only legislate so much contact out of a game that is played by men going full speed. Reaction times are a real thing, even for professional athletes. It is unreasonable to expect players to be able to react to an unexpected action in fractions of a second. If the goal is to remove all contact, then the rule needs to specify which side of the plate belongs to the catcher and which side belongs to the runner and if either doesn't stay on their side and initiates contact, the call goes against them.
Farmer1906
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Moving on.

Here is my hot take of the day. If Bregman loses to Joc Pederson then I think we need to demote him to AAA.
Water Turkey07
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Farmer1906 said:

Moving on.

Here is my hot take of the day. If Bregman loses to Joc Pederson then I think we need to demote him to AAA.
My Jewish boss' head is going to explode when these two square off.*

(thanks n_touch)
n_touch
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How will they be in the finals together when they are in the first round against each other?
Nuke LaLoosh
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Buck Compton said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:

That said, I hate it when we slide head first to any base for any reason. Injury waiting to happen.
Are you kidding me? Sliding head first is literally the only way to be safe on some plays and is by far the most effective slide at home. Just a week or two ago a player on the other team tries the patented Bagwell curly leg slide into home and it's literally the only reason Chirinos got him out. Cost the other team a run in a close game. Can't remember who we were playing.

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.


My stance on this hasn't changed. A good feet first slide is at least nearly as effective and in many cases more effective than a Head first slide.

The risk/reward simply isn't there in a regular season game. How many injuries have we seen by guys sliding head first?
n_touch
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You can see where Jake decides to go to the inside, the blur of the ball bouncing seems that it will take the catcher to the outside. Lucroy may not be blocking the plate, but he sure does move to block him from taking the route he chose.

**not my images, I grabbed them from twitter