Rangers: a true big market team?

9,678 Views | 102 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by powerbelly
AggieEP
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Notice I didn't say Astros management, it's meant as a blanket statement as several clubs have attempted astros style demolitions while preaching the process to their fans. I'm not a fan of billionaires exploiting and manipulating the trust of their teams fans. And although I'm a pro analytics guy, I kind of agree with Evan Longoria, analytics have turned guys like him into the enemy and the fans have adopted the same thinking. WAR captures a lot of the value of a player but it misses the sentimental side of the game by dehumanizing ball players into numbers. I don't want mlb to turn into the nfl where 3/4 of the roster turns over every year, baseball is a personal game especially to young fans and it pays dividends to have stars like biggio and Bagwell play their whole careers with one team. Just like now I hope trout and Betts and bregman never change teams. It's good for them game.

And as for the dodgers, world series champs or bust trash talk is lame, the goal is to build a sustainable club capable of competing for a championship year after year. Sometimes you run into a better/hotter team like the dodgers have two times in a row, doesn't mean the season was worthless.
mhayden
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I agree with many of your points that stars not leaving their team is good for the game.

But that goes both ways too. If Bregman wants to stay an Astro for life, he has that ability. But come free agent time I bet he's looking to get paid, and eventually that leads to teams having to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go.
94chem
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I still find it amazing that the Astros decided to not be on TV in Houston for several years. I know the WS brought a lot of love back for the team, but discussions like this seem to be between middle-aged men. Heck, the Astros still aren't on TV in Kingwood. I only see them on Suddenlink when they play the Rangers. Not only did they tank; they didn't even televise their games. Maybe it won't hurt them, but they missed a generation of kids who will be consumers very soon. I wonder if the economic effect will be seen at the gate when the championship window starts to close.
94chem
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free_mhayden said:

I agree with many of your points that stars not leaving their team is good for the game.

But that goes both ways too. If Bregman wants to stay an Astro for life, he has that ability. But come free agent time I bet he's looking to get paid, and eventually that leads to teams having to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go.
And if you want guys like Springer to stay, try treating them well from the first contract. Don't steal $15M of career value from them by keeping them in the minors an extra year. Sure, every team does it, but they shouldn't play the loyalty card.
WES2006AG
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AG
94chem said:

I still find it amazing that the Astros decided to not be on TV in Houston for several years. I know the WS brought a lot of love back for the team, but discussions like this seem to be between middle-aged men. Heck, the Astros still aren't on TV in Kingwood. I only see them on Suddenlink when they play the Rangers. Not only did they tank; they didn't even televise their games. Maybe it won't hurt them, but they missed a generation of kids who will be consumers very soon. I wonder if the economic effect will be seen at the gate when the championship window starts to close.
Meh, it was only a few years that they weren't on TV and it just happened to be the worst years ever. I believe we have one of the better TV contracts as a result of that hold out.

And as for Kingwood, you have other options. ATT Sportsnet is available on the 3 major providers, DirecTV, Uverse, and Comcast.
Harry Dunne
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Springer is going to stay if Springer wants to stay. It's not going to have anything to do with a grudge over his rookie year. If the Astros want to make up for it, they can do so with a generous contract. I'd rather have a ring & worry about that than bringing everyone up early and then not having enough money to field a championship team and then having players leave to go win a ring.

The bottom line is that everyone is going to defend what their own team does, and that's good. If the Rangers can get it done without truly tanking then more power to them. But you already lost 95 games and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.

What I see on here there was a lot of butthurt Rangers fans attacking the Astros way to make themselves feel better. Guaranteed those same people are going to fully embrace the tanking soon enough.
KT 90
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AG
Harry Dunne said:

Springer is going to stay if Springer wants to stay. It's not going to have anything to do with a grudge over his rookie year. If the Astros want to make up for it, they can do so with a generous contract. I'd rather have a ring & worry about that than bringing everyone up early and then not having enough money to field a championship team and then having players leave to go win a ring.

The bottom line is that everyone is going to defend what their own team does, and that's good. If the Rangers can get it done without truly tanking then more power to them. But you already lost 95 games and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.

What I see on here there was a lot of butthurt Rangers fans attacking the Astros way to make themselves feel better. Guaranteed those same people are going to fully embrace the tanking soon enough.

uh, it's pretty obvious the Rangers are tanking this season. So are several other teams this season, it's the new trend. The Astros tanked several years back and obviously it worked. The thread is discussing whether it is good for the game or not to have teams tanking. I predict tanking and the related low payrolls will be a big issue here in a few years when the CBA is up for negotiation.

Harry Dunne
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Sure but you've still got Rangerfan saying "I hope my team never does what the Astros did" and criticizing Springer being held back and so on.

As if tanking a little less is really any more honorable.
mhayden
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Harry Dunne said:

Sure but you've still got Rangerfan saying "I hope my team never does what the Astros did" and criticizing Springer being held back and so on.

As if tanking a little less is really any more honorable.

That's probably because before the Astros, nobody had really taken the tank to those depths.

Now -- you can say "maybe they should have" or "losing 105 games wasn't really any worse than losing 95" and I doubt anyone would try and argue that much.

But over a 4 year span it was the worst franchise in modern Major League Baseball history.

I hope my team never sets that record -- unless the WS title on the other side is a guarantee. I like baseball too much to just stop watching it for 4 years.

But as the previous poster said -- the discussion isn't about whether the method was "honorable" or any **** like that -- why as a fan would you care if someone thinks the way you built your team was "honorable"? The discussion is about how it has now become the en vogue thing to do which will lead to more teams attempting to do it but not having as high a chance of success because there are more teams jockeying for it.

A team could lose 100 games this year and still not even pick in the Top 5.
AggieEP
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I agree with your bringing up the cba, I think it's likely that a salary floor is coming to prevent shenanigans like having a 22 million dollar payroll.

This year we're watching machado and harper only be pursued by 2-3 teams despite the fact that 10-15 clubs could afford them with no danger of exceeding the luxury tax.

Again billionaires are driving the conversation among their fans to the point where fans feel guys like Shin Soo Choo are killing their teams because of their contracts using weird formulas to calculate value. The owners can pay the players, and unless they are going to put ticket prices back where they should be I'm not going to hate on the players for getting paid and wanting to get paid.

And I disagree that the rangers are tanking this year. They are unlikely to be good, but will run out legit mlb talent at most positions on the field with the pitching staff being the biggest question mark because so many of them are coming off surgery recently.
94chem
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It would be nice to get the Astros out of the division. I liked rooting for them my first 15 or so years living in Houston, but now I can't. Wish my kids didn't have to put up with it either, but you don't switch teams just because you move. Dad's loyalties have won.
AggieEP
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Also I can already forsee Trout's future he'll sign for 35-40 million a year and produce 7-8 war while idiot fans ***** about payroll flexibility and slowly turn on him.
AggieEP
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I actually love watching the Astros and like the roster they put together, just not a fan of turning fans against their own players. It's almost like some fans think they get a dividend payment if the team is 60 million under the luxury tax threshold. Yet you have Astros fans talking on this board about how they can't afford Keuchel or Marwin.
Old Tom Morris
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I'm with mhayden. I love baseball too much to want to put up with a massively historical tank. It's a routine part of my day for 6 months of the year. I don't want to spend 3-5 years flipping on the game to see my team already down 4-0 in the 2nd or 3rd inning far too many nights per week. If a WS on the other side of that is a written in stone guarantee, then maybe. But even then, I'd have to think about it and stand a decent chance of taking a pass.

I love the game and being entertained by it too much. Of course anyone wants to see their team win a title, but my pride/ego/whatever doesn't need It so bad for me to kill my enjoyment of watching it for years.
Harry Dunne
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Is winning 80 games really any better? I have been an Astros fan since 1983, so what I have seen for the most of by far is 75-85 win teams that were decent enough, but realistically had no chance to win a title. I work downtown and went to every weekday day game during the 100-loss years era and I swear that at times there were less than 5k butts in seats...but I enjoyed that more than the slow fades of both the Ryan/Scott era and the post-Bagwell late career Biggio/Berkman era where you knew that the teams were old and didn't have enough left and needed to get worse before they could get better. At least when you're tanking, you know you're on the way back up. There's also something to sticking with a team through the bad times that makes you appreciate the good times a lot more than Johnny Playoffs who tunes in if the team is still playing in October.

If I'm Rangerfan I'm begging them to trade Andrus & Choo and anyone else who is either going to be too old or too expensive by the time the team is competitive again.

BTW I went to years of Rangers games when I lived in Dallas and enjoyed rooting for them back when they weren't the enemy. I hope they suck forever now. Nothing personal, I'll go right back to rooting for them if Bud Selig decides the Brewers have had enough and trades us back to the NL.

Old Tom Morris
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As a fan of the game, watching competitive baseball games on a nightly basis is fun for me. So hell yeah, 80 wins is far better than some 50 win turd where your team is getting it's **** pushed in numerous times per week in games that are brutal to watch.
Harry Dunne
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How long have you been a Rangers fan?
Old Tom Morris
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Since I was a toddler. Born in 74.

But again I'm also a huge fan of the game in general. played it into college. Have coached my kids. Just love it.
Harry Dunne
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If you were satisfied with what the franchise was prior to this decade, then I understand where you're coming from. That's not a cheap shot. I'm a little bit older than you and I loved every good but not great Astros team there ever was...but now that we have been spoiled I'd rather bend over some and win a ring or two than go back to just being competitive.
Old Tom Morris
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Not sure you do. That's some backhanded "well, if you are happy with mediocre to bad, then fine". I want my team to win. I want more than they've done. Badly. But if that price is draining as much fun and life as possible out of the game for 4-5 years, then no thanks. Love the game too much.

Edit - Just saw your edit. That's fine. Maybe it wasn't backhanded, but just to clarify where I'm coming from.
mhayden
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Two wildcards has changed things a bit (and cheapened things, but that's another topic).

Astros had 80 wins with a little over a week to go in the season in 2015.

They were arguably one bad inning away from making the ALCS.

Staying competitive can lead to some fun things.
powerbelly
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AG
Small market team confirmed.

Quote:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Rangers Communications
Thursday, January 31, 2018 817-273-5203

TEXAS RANGERS TO UTILIZE SYNTHETIC GRASS PLAYING SURFACE
FOR THE NEW GLOBE LIFE FIELD
Decision comes after nearly two years of research to satisfy Rangers' total requirements for
player safely, team performance, and fan experience;
Team to partner with Shaw Sports Turf and Paragon Sports Constructors

Arlington, Texas--The Texas Rangers today announced that the club will install a specially designed synthetic grass playing surface for the new Globe Life Field which opens in March 2020.

The decision to utilize a synthetic grass playing surface was made after the Rangers organization completed almost two years of research to satisfy the club's total requirements for player safely, team performance, and fan experience.

The synthetic grass field will be provided by Shaw Sports Turf with installation completed by Texas-based Paragon Sports Constructors.

The choice to go with Shaw Sports Turf is rooted in data, and supported by extensive research as it relates to player safety. Shaw used Globe Life Park in Arlington's current natural grass field as one of the benchmarks for its ongoing playability study, conducting a series of tests on that playing surface in August 2017.

In addition to the benchmarking research, Shaw Sports Turf is funding and participating in a kinesiology study with Auburn University. This study's main goal is to research how players react on certain surfaces and then use that data to tune systems for player safety and optimal performance.

The goal is not to only have the highest performing synthetic grass, but also to have the highest performing surface for baseball. This research is based on seven playability metrics and a patented data analysis tool that compares system characteristics to top-level natural grass surfaces. Shaw Sports Turf's newest evolution in baseball, the B1K "Batting a Thousand" system, is a result of this research.

"From our first visit with the staff at Shaw Sports Turf, we were clear that a synthetic grass surface for Globe Life Field would only be a consideration if it could deliver the best surface in Major League Baseball and address the concerns we had related to impact on the players," said Rob Matwick, Rangers Executive Vice President of Business Operations. "Months of detailed research that included extensive input from our Baseball Operations group from both a health and performance aspect have resulted in this decision.

"Shaw's commitment to research and development have been second-to-none," said Matwick. "However, its engagement with the study at Auburn demonstrated to our staff that Shaw was just as concerned about player safety as we were."

Jamie Reed, the Rangers' Senior Director of Medical Operations and Sports Science, has been heavily involved in the turf studies at Auburn University and has been the Rangers' primary point person on the safely and performance aspects of researching playing surfaces. This has included site visits and testing with minor league players on turf surfaces.

"During 37 years in professional baseball, my emphasis has been on player safety and the prevention of injuries," Reed said. "As we did the research and studies on determining our new field surface, these goals have been the main priority from the start. I am very confident that this is going to be a great product that no player has ever experienced in his career."


By using the data analysis tool, the system can be tuned to meet the playability characteristics that matter most to the team. The system provided to the Rangers will be specific to their needs and unique to Globe Life Field. The Rangers will opt for the B1K natural system, which employs a natural, sustainable infill called Geofill. The system results in excellent ball surface and player surface interaction. The ball bounce will be in line with bounce trajectories on natural grass. Improved player surface interaction results in less lower-extremity fatigue and true reaction times. Player safety and performance played a major role in the Rangers decision.

B1K is a dual fiber turf system comprised of Shaw's high-performance Strenexe XD slit film and Bolt monofilament. This system provides excellent durability and functionality by minimizing the infill from "splashing," maintaining adequate infill levels across the field. The Bolt fiber provides realistic ball roll, friction and natural grass aesthetics. These characteristics ensure that the playing surface at Globe Life Field will appear nearly identical to the current surface in Globe Life Park, including keeping clay base paths. The fan experience in the park will be maintained at the highest level.

B1K natural was also an important element in the Rangers choice regarding their concerns with environmental impact and sustainability. The Geofill infill used in the system is made of coconut husks and fibers, which is a rapidly renewable resource. The infill requires much less water than natural grass, thus resulting in significant levels of conservation.

"The Texas Rangers are a franchise that definitely does its homework and they don't take any decision lightly, especially this one. We are very excited for the opportunity to partner with them on this project," said Vice President of Shaw Turf Chuck McClurg. "Throughout their research and our discussions with them, they have placed an emphasis on player safety and team performance. We are confident that the product we deliver will be an exceptionally consistent, top-of-the-line playing surface that will mimic the best natural playing surfaces in Major League Baseball today."

The installation of the artificial turf will be entrusted to Texas-based Paragon Sports Constructors, a long time Shaw Sports Turf partner. Paragon Sports Constructors brings over 30 years of athletic facility construction and sports field installation experience to the project. Their experience has earned Paragon Sports Constructors a reputation of unparalleled technical expertise and customer service. In addition to building the playing field and installing the B1K system at Globe Life Field, Paragon Sports Constructors will provide ongoing service of the field to ensure that the playability metrics for ball and athlete performance are maintained. Paragon has worked with Shaw on the installation of baseball fields at a number of facilities, including local fields at Highland Park and Rockwall High Schools.

"Shaw's commitment to R and D and product innovation are key reasons we choose to partner with them," said William Chaffe, President of Paragon Sports Constructors. "The Rangers had a difficult decision but I think ultimately they were convinced by Shaw's data that their synthetic system would be on par with the best natural surfaces in the Majors. It is clear that the Rangers organization really took their time and made the effort to thoroughly investigate their options for Globe Life Field."

ABOUT SHAW SPORTS TURF
A wholly-owned subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway Inc., Shaw Industries is a full flooring provider to the residential and commercial markets. Shaw supplies carpet, hardwood, laminate, resilient, and tile/stone flooring products, as well as synthetic turf. Shaw Sports Turf is one of the leading synthetic turf companies in North America and has represented quality and innovation for more than two decades with over 3,000 successful installations, including an impressive list of high-profile field installations. STRENEXE, BOLT, BATTING A THOUSAND and B1K are trademarks of Shaw Contract Flooring Services, Inc. For more information please visit www.shawsportsturf.com, call 866-703-4004 or find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Linkedin. Geofill is a registered trademark of Italgreen SPA.

ABOUT PARAGON SPORTS CONSTRUCTORS
Paragon Sports Constructors is a turn-key contractor of natural and synthetic turf sports fields, running tracks and tennis courts based in Fort Worth, Texas. With over 30 years of sports construction experience, they are one of the premier athletic facility contractors in the South-Central United States. Paragon Sports Constructors remains focused on quality construction practices, choosing to partner with top brand name manufacturers of synthetic turf, track, and tennis court surfacing. As a member of the American Sports Builders Association, Paragon's mission is to build the finest athletic facilities and to provide clients a consistently high-quality project and experience from planning to first use and beyond. For more information on Paragon Sports Constructors please visit www.paragon-sports.com or follow them on Twitter @ParagonSportsCo.

NOTE TO MEDIA: The Rangers will hold an availability with Rob Matwick, Jamie Reed, and officials from Shaw Turf at 3:30 p.m. TODAY, THURSDAY, JANUARY 31. This will take place at the Globe Life Field Sales Center, which is located on Randol Mill Road near the media gate. Parking is available in Lot B. Please contact the Rangers Communications Department with questions. Thank you.



- RANGERS -
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Ag_07
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Hey...No grass stains so huge cost saving in the laundry detergent expense.
Mathguy64
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Yes, but their sock budget will go through the roof when those little rubber pebbles get in their shoes and stuck to their socks. Not to mention having to vacuum the clubhouse every night to pick them up when they dump them out of their shoes. That crap drives me crazy
Quincey P. Morris
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mathguy86 said:

Yes, but their sock budget will go through the roof when those little rubber pebbles get in their shoes and stuck to their socks. Not to mention having to vacuum the clubhouse every night to pick them up when they dump them out of their shoes. That crap drives me crazy


I'm an anti turf guy regardless but this stuff doesn't have the pellets. It uses something else for that layer but I can't remember what it was. Either way it's a f***ing travesty.
double aught
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Not even small market teams do this BS. Aside from AZ, no one has been dumb enough to do this in 30 years.
Kellso
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I am honestly confused. Why is it a big deal that the Rangers will play on turf instead of grass?
Carlo4
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I'll have to find a link, but radio (1080 AM) in Dallas mentioned the Rangers were the third most popular team in league and above Houston based on TV viewers.
BMX Bandit
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Here's the link:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251536/average-tv-viewership-of-selected-major-league-baseball-games/

Rangers not quite 3rd
Carlo4
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Thanks. False ad on radio then.
gbaby23
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I was never a big fan of turf baseball fields. I understood the need for them in places where you can't manage the upkeep for a quality playing surface, like HS or smaller colleges, or if you have weather issues. However, a major league club with Texas weather and a retractable roof, this stadium should have a dirt and grass field 100 times out of 100.
Mr Gigem
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Globe Life Field was originally designed to accommodate for a natural grass playing surface. The decision to go with the synthetic turf was based on several factors...

-We want an even playing surface from foul pole to foul pole. We did research on stadiums with a retractable roof and natural grass playing surfaces, namely Houston and Arizona. What we found were uneven playing surfaces in the outfield, especially in the corners, and teams having trouble growing grass and having to spray their grass to keep it looking green.

-How is the ball going to play? The decision to go with a synthetic turf was a decision two years in the making. If it was something that has been done before, we didn't want it. The company that designed the turf came out to Globe Life Field, and shot a baseball through an air cannon at the grass. Then did same thing with their synthetic. They found both surfaces were nearly identical. Also, the synthetic turf is going to look and feel just like natural. Just take a look at the Diamondback's playing surface this season. It is the same synthetic turf that will be installed in Globe Life Field.

- Player safety. This point actually ties into the two points above. An even playing surface from foul pole to foul pole that is soft like natural grass, and plays just like natural grass, it was a no-brainer.

- Third party events. Globe Life Field will play host to many third party events throughout the year. A synthetic turf is much easier to maintain after or a concert or some other event than a natural grass surface.

All that said, we still have the ability to switch back to a natural grass surface if we need to.
powerbelly
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gbaby23 said:

I was never a big fan of turf baseball fields. I understood the need for them in places where you can't manage the upkeep for a quality playing surface, like HS or smaller colleges, or if you have weather issues. However, a major league club with Texas weather and a retractable roof, this stadium should have a dirt and grass field 100 times out of 100.
They wanted an event center, not a baseball field and turf was the only way to accomplish that.
 
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