Defensive Shifts

3,113 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Satellite of Love
MelvinUdall
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I was listening to a podcast the other day and I can't recall who made the comment, but his point is that there should be a rule outlawing shifts, thoughts? I am good with them as hitters have tendencies and pitchers can pitch those tendencies eliciting outs. His argument was that it would make baseball more exciting and more runs would be scored.
MosesHallRAB04
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AG
When a team shifts they are basically giving up half the field. If the player can't adjust or refuses to bunt then too damn bad. Learn to hit the other way so they can't shift against you. Problem solved.

I can't believe players aren't embarrassed by some of these massive shifts they see and don't learn how to go the other way.
MelvinUdall
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MosesHallRAB04 said:

When a team shifts they are basically giving up half the field. If the player can't adjust or refuses to bunt then too damn bad. Learn to hit the other way so they can't shift against you. Problem solved.

I can't believe players aren't embarrassed by some of these massive shifts they see and don't learn how to go the other way.


Good point, but I will add that a pitcher will throw inside to get that ball hit into the shift. I guess the player could inside/out the swing to the other way.
Philip J Fry
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The fact that baseball employees a short stop shows that the game was designed to put position players to make it hard to get a hit. If you can't hit or bunt the other way, it's on you.


Hell, the Rangers did a decent job against the shift we put on.
gambochaman
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while they are at it they should also ban gloves so all fielders have to catch bare handed and also they have to face away from the batter until they hear contact. this will also add more runs and make it more exciting
03_Aggie
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gambochaman said:

while they are at it they should also ban gloves so all fielders have to catch bare handed and also they have to face away from the batter until they hear contact. this will also add more runs and make it more exciting


PacifistAg
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While more drastic, I'm not sure why a shift is any different than any other defensive alignment. It's like saying we should ban teams from bringing the infield in with bases loaded and nobody out. Or bringing the 3B in when a guy is a serious bunt-for-hit threat. They are defensive adjustments based on situation and offensive personnel at the plate.
Furlock Bones
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yep, if you can't at least slap hit or bunt into that giant open space, well sucks for you.
Know Your Enemy
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Outlawing shifts would be almost as dumb as a pitch clock.
Bigballin
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Junkhead said:

Outlawing shifts would be almost as dumb as a pitch clock.
This. Delete thread. Ban OP
titanmaster_race
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Furlock Bones said:

yep, if you can't at least slap hit or bunt into that giant open space, well sucks for you.
Bregxit
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Furlock Bones said:

yep, if you can't at least slap hit or bunt into that giant open space, well sucks for you.
If this guy can do it, anyone should be able to...

Corporal Punishment
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Seems like additional regulating where position players are located would open up a can of worms.

In my opinion, baseball is suffering from too many strikeouts. Not sure how to solve that other than backing the rubber up but that seems radical.

Baseball has serious problems. Read an SI article today saying attendance is down (10%?) and the drop goes beyond the cold spring weather excuse.
htxag09
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MelvinUdall said:

MosesHallRAB04 said:

When a team shifts they are basically giving up half the field. If the player can't adjust or refuses to bunt then too damn bad. Learn to hit the other way so they can't shift against you. Problem solved.

I can't believe players aren't embarrassed by some of these massive shifts they see and don't learn how to go the other way.


Good point, but I will add that a pitcher will throw inside to get that ball hit into the shift. I guess the player could inside/out the swing to the other way.

No they don't. They pitch the same regardless. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a shift and the pitcher threw every pitch on the outside corner.
AustinAg2K
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dlance said:

Furlock Bones said:

yep, if you can't at least slap hit or bunt into that giant open space, well sucks for you.
If this guy can do it, anyone should be able to...


The thing is, the Astros would consider that a win. You essentially took the bat out of a power hitters hands. That's why the shift works, and that's why hitters virtually never bunt. Gallo isn't up there to get a single. He's up there to hit a HR.

Anyways, people complaining about the shift remind me of people complaining about "Hack-a-Shaq" in basketball. It's part of the game.
lead
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Corporal Punishment said:


In my opinion, baseball is suffering from too many strikeouts. Not sure how to solve that other than backing the rubber up but that seems radical.

Baseball has serious problems. Read an SI article today saying attendance is down (10%?) and the drop goes beyond the cold spring weather excuse.


Had no idea baseball attendance was down. Does that include viewership? Not surprising (for all sports) if so.

Off topic, but I always have believed fields should be bigger: more triples, fewer HRs, more defense.

On topic: making a rule against the shift is asinine. Strategy is what makes baseball great.
mhayden
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Outlawing the shift doesn't really get to the root of the problem -- that the game has changed.

Players aren't not slapping a single or bunting against the shift because they are completely incapable of it -- they aren't doing it because in the current game environment there is very little value in the attempt.

The game has shifted to the 3 true outcomes, which isn't very exciting for a lot of baseball fans.

Obviously would never happen (and with infrastructure is far too difficult to initiate), but the best solution for the game would be to increase field dimensions and make a homerun harder to hit. That would in turn increase the value of a single.

But the solution that is more realistic is just to expand the strikezone. Expanded strikezone = less homeruns, which increases the value of base hits. It also moves the game along quicker.
ABATTBQ87
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Quote:

Expanded strikezone
which way? up and down or outside?

The top of the zone now should be 2 fists above the belt and the bottom is the hollow of the knee.

mhayden
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No opinion really... but the expansion would get the game back to the "can you hit it where I throw it" rather than "I'm going to swing as hard as I can at a pitch in my zone and hope for the best".
KT 90
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Corporal Punishment said:


In my opinion, baseball is suffering from too many strikeouts. Not sure how to solve that other than backing the rubber up but that seems radical.



Could lower the mound again like they did in the late 60's (rather than move it back). That would lower the velocities a bit and theoretically should lower the strikeout trend some as well.

mhayden
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Would just increase homeruns.
AustinAg2K
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Expanding the strike zone is a risky proposition. Right now the league is full of guys who have been conditioned to wait for their pitch. When you expand the zone those guys will take a while to adjust. You'll likely see a huge jump in Ks for a season or two before hitters fully adjust.
91AggieLawyer
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Quote:

The thing is, the Astros would consider that a win.

If they consider that a win, then that's stupid. Gallo is a career sub-.200 hitter at the MLB level who strikes out about 3x more than he walks. Maybe some of that is attributed to the shift, but not much. Sure he hits for power but his strikeout numbers say he'll chase most anything that comes within half a dugout length from the zone. Given all that, in no way is him getting ON BASE, much less a base hit of any kind, a win.

Now, if he hit most every ball hard to the right side of the infield 80% of the time with home runs the other 20%, then yeah, a bunt hit on the shift might be grounds for a win. But that isn't the case.

I don't think the Astros or any opponent will continue to shift against Gallo if he shows he can bunt.
diehard03
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Quote:

Obviously would never happen (and with infrastructure is far too difficult to initiate), but the best solution for the game would be to increase field dimensions and make a homerun harder to hit. That would in turn increase the value of a single.

or they could deaden the ball more. Bring both pitch velocities and exit velocities down.

edit: (maybe pitch velocities might be unaffected, but whatever)
Deluxe
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A few quick thoughts on this:

Righty hitters do have a little bit of an edge in the new shift world but lefties have had an advantage since baseball was invented (it's a step closer to first base).

The only aspect where I sympathize with lefties a little is that the second baseman can play in shallow right field, scoop up hard hit ground balls and still make the plays to first... which obviously cannot be done on the other side of the infield.

What about a one-rule solution where only three players (the outfielders) are allowed to play beyond the infield dirt? So you can still align/shift your infielders however you want, but they all have to be on the dirt (or closer).
DannyDuberstein
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The game is that you have 7 guys available to station in the field of play as optimally as you see fit. That's how it is and how it should stay. Anywhere you place them sacrifices coverage elsewhere. The hitter can try to take advantage of that or not.
Joe Cole
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pro shift

makes me sick to hear them talk about banning shifts

"hit it where they ain't" , baseball is hard, deal with it
DannyDuberstein
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What's nutty to me is that people make it sound like that guys were just playing standard positions and not moving around much before the shift, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

There have always been some pretty extreme differences as to where you choose to play your fielders going back forever. From playing the infield in, to playing DP depth, to guarding the lines, to bringing the OF in at the end of a game when a game-winning runner is on 3rd with less than 2 outs, etc. That's the game.
Satellite of Love
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MosesHallRAB04 said:

When a team shifts they are basically giving up half the field. If the player can't adjust or refuses to bunt then too damn bad. Learn to hit the other way so they can't shift against you. Problem solved.

I can't believe players aren't embarrassed by some of these massive shifts they see and don't learn how to go the other way.
It's like basketball players who can't consistently make a free throw.
bad_teammate said on 2/10/21:
Just imagine how 1/6 would've played out if DC hadn't had such strict gun laws.

Two people starred his post as of the time of this signature. Those 3 people are allowed to vote in the US.
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