Why do official scorer's score plays like the Astros walk off pop up a hit? That is a play that should be made 100/100 times in MLB.

Astros walk off pop single

I have seen similar plays also be called hits..... miscommunication, other pop ups, etc. I don't understand why this isn't ruled an error vs a hit.

It makes no real difference, I was just curious this morning as I was looking at box scores.

All i can figure is that its determined a "mental mistake or misjudgment"

Cause home team is scorer?

That of course shouldn't be a hit.
A scoring issue I have is with a RBI. Hitting a ball that forces an error should be an RBI IMHO as should hitting into a double play. The end result is your at bat got the runner home just like a sacrife does.

bigjag19 said:

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Cause home team is scorer?

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It's not this, it's common for a play like this to be judged a hit.

I'd be interested to know the answer as well.

Speculation on the other thread was that maybe it was because no one got a hand on it to muff it or anything?

Rules specifically say the ball doesn't have to be touched. The exception is what I pointed out above

But why isn't a mental mistake or mis judgement of this magnitude ruled an error?

I think you should be able to assign a team error. Maybe no one person is at fault here, but it clearly shouldn't be a hit.

I drove bus said:

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But why isn't a mental mistake or mis judgement of this magnitude ruled an error?

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No. By rule that means it's not an error.

It's goofy because rule talks about a fly ball dropping that would ordinarily be caught, but then says mental misjudgment not an error.

BMX Bandit said:

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I drove bus said:

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But why isn't a mental mistake or mis judgement of this magnitude ruled an error?

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No. By rule that means it's not an error.

It's goofy because rule talks about a fly ball dropping that would ordinarily be caught, but then says mental misjudgment not an error.

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Fair enough. Just an odd rule. Seems like
Common sense could Play a part in something like this.

So a play like this is a hit. But a good throw to 3rd, that happens to hit the runners helmet and bounce away (Jave Baez on Friday night), is an error. Just bizarre.

Agnzona said:

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That of course shouldn't be a hit.
A scoring issue I have is with a RBI. Hitting a ball that forces an error should be an RBI IMHO as should hitting into a double play. The end result is your at bat got the runner home just like a sacrife does.

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I disagree with both of these. If you hit a ball that forces an error, it's still an error and in most cases, there would have been no rbi. Second, in a double play situation it's the fielding teams choice to go for the double play, the batter has nothing to do with it. Fielding team could make the decision to go home for 1 instead of double play.

Gramercy Riffs said:

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Agnzona said:

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Hitting a ball that forces an error should be an RBI

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If it was an error, it wasn't forced. And if it was forced, it was a hit.

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Not arguing that but your contact still got the run in. If you struck out it doesn't score.

At first glance it seems like E3, no RBI is the no-brainer call. It was a popup that should have been caught by Hosmer and the pitcher's ERA should not be penalized - I mean he's already getting tagged with a loss. Bregman did something that on 9999 of 10000 times results in an out and he gets a hit and a game winning RBI. Doesn't seem right to reward him either.

At the same time, it's complicated. Hosmer wasn't the closest player to the ball. The catcher is supposed to be the traffic controller calling out who should make the play - maybe he blew it there. Hosmer won't throw him under the bus so we will never know. Standard procedure says the C and P should not make the play when the 1b can, but they were closest to the ball. What if Hosmer was fat & slow and just didn't get there in time? Who do you give the error to then? Should he be penalized for hustling? At the same time if he gets under it and gets his glove on it, like he should have then it's most likely ruled an error...so now we're rewarding him for being extra clueless and not even touching it? What if everyone lost the ball in the roof and no one moves at all and the ball drops just like it did? It is a hit then?

I think we all agree this one was a pretty straight E3 but scoring a game ain't as easy as it looks.

I drove bus said:

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So a play like this is a hit. But a good throw to 3rd, that happens to hit the runners helmet and bounce away (Jave Baez on Friday night), is an error. Just bizarre.

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Yeah that's tough but they have to rule something there. No matter how you rule it, someone is going to get penalized. If you don't rule that as an error then the pitcher gets penalized with an earned run and the batter gets unjustly rewarded with an RBI.

Fair point

It was!!! The catchers play to make.

The catcher had to walk 10 feet turn around inning over.

Unrelated, but an E1 shouldn't take away an earned run.

A fly ball that falls to the ground untouched is not scored as an error.

coconutED said:

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A fly ball that falls to the ground untouched is not scored as an error.

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Most of the time, but not always. as an example, 3-4 years ago when Darvish had a no hitter going late in the game, there was a lazy fly ball that Odor and one of the OFs were both under but neither really went for and neither touched it. The scorer gave the OF the error (no hitter was broken up anyway later in the game).

The way the rule is written, the scorer should give a fielder the error if with a normal effort they should have caught the ball, regardless of whether they actually touch it. You're right that most of the time if no one touches it regardless of how catchable it is, they rule it a hit and the letter of the law is not enforced.

while I agree it should be that easy, the rule doesn't make it so.

Quote:

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Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter. It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a fly ball falls untouched and, in the scorer's judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, the official scorer shall charge such fielder with an error. For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either Rule 10.12 108 side of such infielder if, in the official scorer's judgment, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner. The official scorer shall charge an outfielder with an error if such outfielder allows a fly ball to drop to the ground if, in the official scorer's judgment, an outfielder at that position making ordinary effort would have caught such fly ball. If a throw is low, wide or high, or strikes the ground, and a runner reaches base who otherwise would have been put out by such throw, the official scorer shall charge the player making the throw with an error. The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise. A fielder's mental mistake that leads to a physical misplaysuch as throwing the ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher's mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs, and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advanceshall not be considered a mental mistake for purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an error. The official scorer shall not charge an error if the pitcher fails to cover first base on a play, thereby allowing a batter-runner to reach first base safely. The official scorer shall not charge an error to a fielder who incorrectly throws to the wrong base on a play. The official scorer shall charge an error to a fielder who causes another fielder to misplay a ball for example, by knocking the ball out of the other fielder's glove. On such a play, when the official scorer charges an error to the interfering fielder, the official scorer shall not charge an error to the fielder with whom the other fielder interfered

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BMX nailed it - scored errors are physical, not mental.

Let's just agree that it's all really gray.

Making a perfect throw, but to the wrong base is definitely a mental error. Throwing the ball to the right base but way over the fielder's head is definitely a physical error. But overrunning a pop-up, is that physical or mental?

I mean if he had run a little bit less and it came down and smacked him on the coconut Jose Canseco style, they would have probably ruled it an error then, but would that have been any more physical and any less mental than what actually happened?

Harry Dunne said:

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coconutED said:

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A fly ball that falls to the ground untouched is not scored as an error.

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Most of the time, but not always. as an example, 3-4 years ago when Darvish had a no hitter going late in the game, there was a lazy fly ball that Odor and one of the OFs were both under but neither really went for and neither touched it. The scorer gave the OF the error (no hitter was broken up anyway later in the game).

The way the rule is written, the scorer should give a fielder the error if with a normal effort they should have caught the ball, regardless of whether they actually touch it. You're right that most of the time if no one touches it regardless of how catchable it is, they rule it a hit and the letter of the law is not enforced.

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I remember the play you're taking about and it was actually switched to a hit after the fact.

wbt5845 said:

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BMX nailed it - scored errors are physical, not mental.

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Bill Buckner wishes that was true.

On a similar line of thought:

http//www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/04/post_153.html

MLB told the game's official scorers during the off-season to call an error on such plays where a fielder sees the ball, but loses it in the sun.

Oh wow, I did not know that. I wonder if they would have still changed the ruling if Darvish had thrown a perfect game. I doubt it.