Lets hear your case for Larry Biitner and Toby Harrah.
What's that got to do with all-time players?AgFan1999 said:
I'll just leave this here - All-Disappointment Team
Those three are very good but better, yet alone far and away better, than Jeter and Nomar? I don't agree with that. Better argument with Tejada, I'll say that.CorpsAg11 said:Farmer1906 said:I thought we were just in the golden age about a decade ago with ARod, Jeter, Nomar, & Tejada.CorpsAg11 said:
No offense to Cal and Ozzie, but its amazing how weak the list of all time great shortstops is and how strong the current crop of young, potential future HOF SS is right now. It is like a golden age of shortstops.
Only one of those guys was anywhere near as good as Correa, Seager, Lindor, etc and he switched to 3B half way thru his career...
There's a trash-talking thread. This isn't it. This has nothing to do w/ the topic at hand.AgFan1999 said:
I'll just leave this here - All-Disappointment Team
True, but the thread is about all-time greats. You posted something that has nothing to do with all-time greats.AgFan1999 said:
Just illustrating the point that everyone on the thread has their opinion about something.
If we're looking at a 3 year window? Sure._lefraud_ said:
The astro Homers crack me up, they don't even try and hide their favoritism, and Biggio is always the classic example.
Hell, if they wanted to argue Altuve as a top 5 guy already, I honestly wouldn't have much a problem with it. Give Altuve 3 more years, and he will surpass Biggio (if he hasn't already).
You are correct, I had forgotten how good Nomar was early on. That's fair.RetiredAg said:
I think the issue I have w/ your initial comment is it seems to dismiss how good Nomar was.
No one was saying that Jeter didn't have some high batting averages. But to be "feared" it helps to have a little "pop". Jeter had only one season where he exceeded a .900 OPS. I would say Lindor, Boegarts, and Turner are just about on pace with Jeter through 3/4 seasons, but Correa and Seager are far ahead of where he was...TXAggie2011 said:
Ha. Yes. When Jeter was hitting .320+ with 60 XBH and 20+ SB a year, yes, you bet he was feared.
jja79 said:
Lets hear your case for Larry Biitner and Toby Harrah.
CorpsAg11 said:No one was saying that Jeter didn't have some high batting averages. But to be "feared" it helps to have a little "pop". Jeter had only one season where he exceeded a .900 OPS. I would say Lindor, Boegarts, and Turner are just about on pace with Jeter through 3/4 seasons, but Correa and Seager are far ahead of where he was...TXAggie2011 said:
Ha. Yes. When Jeter was hitting .320+ with 60 XBH and 20+ SB a year, yes, you bet he was feared.
And they all play better defense
good time to revisit this thread as Altuve wins his first MVP award (and earlier won his 3rd batting title).W said:
2B
Morgan -- among his many amazing stats is drawing over 100 walks in 8 seasons...despite the pitchers knowing that Bench and Perez were up next. His career OBP is 121 points higher than his career BA.
Sandberg
Biggio
however in 2 or 3 years...Cano and/or Altuve will likely replace Biggio in the top 3 and maybe Sandberg too. He really benefited from Wrigley Field.
just for fun...Sandberg's career OPS at Wrigley was .854. His career OPS in the Astrodome was .700
I think this is a dumb caveat. If someone like A-Rod put up all-time great numbers at SS, why wouldn't you consider him as an all-time great at SS?RetiredAg said:As I said in the OP, I didn't really consider a guy that played a large percentage of their games at another position. A-Rod played 1272 games at SS and 1194 at 3B. Yount and Banks missed out for the same reason. I was surprised at the number of legends at SS that played a significant time elsewhere.Farmer1906 said:
Ozzie has no business on here. It's A Rod and it isn't close.
bigjag19 said:
Pudge over Piazza?
Ozzie certainly was great, but overall any better than Jeter or Nomar?
I would put Clemens over Ryan for sure and in top 3.
Pudge was also #1 in at least 4 hitting categories... #1 As in best ever... and for the record I am an Astros fan.oldschool87 said:bigjag19 said:
Pudge over Piazza?
Ozzie certainly was great, but overall any better than Jeter or Nomar?
I would put Clemens over Ryan for sure and in top 3.
Piazza was a horrible catcher, end of discussion!
If your actually serious, go look at his catching stats...
Oh, I fully expect Altuve to end his career at #1 on the list. And I expect, assuming he continues doing what he is doing, that it won't even be close between him and #2.W said:good time to revisit this thread as Altuve wins his first MVP award (and earlier won his 3rd batting title).W said:
2B
Morgan -- among his many amazing stats is drawing over 100 walks in 8 seasons...despite the pitchers knowing that Bench and Perez were up next. His career OBP is 121 points higher than his career BA.
Sandberg
Biggio
however in 2 or 3 years...Cano and/or Altuve will likely replace Biggio in the top 3 and maybe Sandberg too. He really benefited from Wrigley Field.
just for fun...Sandberg's career OPS at Wrigley was .854. His career OPS in the Astrodome was .700
He ties Sandberg now with 1 MVP award apiece. Still trails Morgan who won 2 MVP's. And of course Biggio, Alomar, and Cano have not / never won an MVP.
Altuve is going to be #2 on this list in 1 or 2 years at his current pace
That's fine that you think it's a dumb caveat. Feel free to add a "utility" position as mentioned by TXAggie2011.BowSowy said:I think this is a dumb caveat. If someone like A-Rod put up all-time great numbers at SS, why wouldn't you consider him as an all-time great at SS?RetiredAg said:As I said in the OP, I didn't really consider a guy that played a large percentage of their games at another position. A-Rod played 1272 games at SS and 1194 at 3B. Yount and Banks missed out for the same reason. I was surprised at the number of legends at SS that played a significant time elsewhere.Farmer1906 said:
Ozzie has no business on here. It's A Rod and it isn't close.
Edit: I just realized I responded to a 3 month old thread. Even better, one in which I had responded to previously. Still though, Biggio > Odor, Keuchel > Nolan, Altuve > Beltre.