And boost ratings?
Put a clock? Limit extra innings?
Put a clock? Limit extra innings?
How would you save baseball.
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Last: 6 yr ago by Bonfired
Does baseball need saving?
I don't think it would hurt attendance if MLB clubs took the gameday experience a little less serious and a little more fun to help fill the time. Some clubs are a little ahead of others here.
TV and the in-park experience could be helped by little things to speed the game up.
I don't think it would hurt attendance if MLB clubs took the gameday experience a little less serious and a little more fun to help fill the time. Some clubs are a little ahead of others here.
TV and the in-park experience could be helped by little things to speed the game up.
Okay, so here is my rant, I hope all read...
Baseball is Baseball, and always will be Baseball. People who love baseball, and admire the game for what it is, do not care if a game is a 2 hour 45 min 2-1 game, or a 4.5 hour 10-8 game, they are going to watch the whole thing. I myself, watch every pitch of the every Astros game, unless I just absolutely can't because I am busy. BUT, like myself, I know that there are millions of fans who care that much for their teams that they are going to watch almost every game, and watch ALL of almost every game. THIS FAN JUST WANTS TO WATCH BASEBALL, they do not care about the time length of a game.
Now... there is another type of fan. The fan who tunes in for marquee games and the Playoffs. This fan merely does not care that much about the time of the game either. Thus, this fan is only tuning into a few games a year, and the fact that they are taking time out of their normal schedule of to watch such games, means that they most likely care if a game is 3 hours vs. close to 4 hours.
So to get to my point. The MLB and the people who say that the fans are not tuning into the games because of their time length, are missing the perspective of the fans. The millions of fans who live and breath baseball do not want to see drastic changes in the play of the game. So if baseball wants to implement new rules, (less pitching changes and mound visits, shorter season, ect...), are they really going to gain many more fans? Are the fans like Fan #2 going to turn into Fan #1 just because the game is shorter by a half hour? No.
Baseball is merely perfect the way it is. Keep it the way it is. There will always be complainers and naysayers who disagree with something, but you will never be able to please everyone. I have never met someone who is 50+ say that they quit watching baseball every nigh because the games were too long. People are either going to love baseball, be a casual fan, or not care for it at all, and changing the rules is not going to shift those stratum much at all.
Baseball is Baseball, and always will be Baseball. People who love baseball, and admire the game for what it is, do not care if a game is a 2 hour 45 min 2-1 game, or a 4.5 hour 10-8 game, they are going to watch the whole thing. I myself, watch every pitch of the every Astros game, unless I just absolutely can't because I am busy. BUT, like myself, I know that there are millions of fans who care that much for their teams that they are going to watch almost every game, and watch ALL of almost every game. THIS FAN JUST WANTS TO WATCH BASEBALL, they do not care about the time length of a game.
Now... there is another type of fan. The fan who tunes in for marquee games and the Playoffs. This fan merely does not care that much about the time of the game either. Thus, this fan is only tuning into a few games a year, and the fact that they are taking time out of their normal schedule of to watch such games, means that they most likely care if a game is 3 hours vs. close to 4 hours.
So to get to my point. The MLB and the people who say that the fans are not tuning into the games because of their time length, are missing the perspective of the fans. The millions of fans who live and breath baseball do not want to see drastic changes in the play of the game. So if baseball wants to implement new rules, (less pitching changes and mound visits, shorter season, ect...), are they really going to gain many more fans? Are the fans like Fan #2 going to turn into Fan #1 just because the game is shorter by a half hour? No.
Baseball is merely perfect the way it is. Keep it the way it is. There will always be complainers and naysayers who disagree with something, but you will never be able to please everyone. I have never met someone who is 50+ say that they quit watching baseball every nigh because the games were too long. People are either going to love baseball, be a casual fan, or not care for it at all, and changing the rules is not going to shift those stratum much at all.
Limit mound visits. No more unlimited catcher/infielder mound visits. I've seen recently where catchers go multiple times per batter or visit during one AB then go right out there the next. It's really gotten out of hand.
Starters get 2 visits whether it be catcher, coach, or manager visits. They have to be yanked on the 3rd visit.
Relievers get 1 visit. Have to be yanked on the 2nd.
Maybe you do starters get 2 catcher visits and 1 coach/manager and RPs get 1 and 1.
FWIW...I don't think baseball needs "saving". There are some areas to improve but saving implies that it's dead and it's not. I actually think it's gaining popularity.
Starters get 2 visits whether it be catcher, coach, or manager visits. They have to be yanked on the 3rd visit.
Relievers get 1 visit. Have to be yanked on the 2nd.
Maybe you do starters get 2 catcher visits and 1 coach/manager and RPs get 1 and 1.
FWIW...I don't think baseball needs "saving". There are some areas to improve but saving implies that it's dead and it's not. I actually think it's gaining popularity.
If I had had sole power of baseball I would
1. Balls and Strikes are now called by a computer. The ump behind the plate still calls foul balls, if they go around (and he can see it), plays at the plate, etc.
2. Pitch clocks. Stop farting around and throw the damn ball. It was magic watching Roy O work. Dude would catch and be ready to fire it back home.
3. Get in the damn box and swing. Home ump would be tasked with keeping the game moving. If the batter was being excessive between pitches then he would be warned. If it continued then the ump gives the go ahead to the pitcher to throw.
1. Balls and Strikes are now called by a computer. The ump behind the plate still calls foul balls, if they go around (and he can see it), plays at the plate, etc.
2. Pitch clocks. Stop farting around and throw the damn ball. It was magic watching Roy O work. Dude would catch and be ready to fire it back home.
3. Get in the damn box and swing. Home ump would be tasked with keeping the game moving. If the batter was being excessive between pitches then he would be warned. If it continued then the ump gives the go ahead to the pitcher to throw.
I skimmed that. 
1) Hard for me to believe the length of the game is a part of "millions'" love of the game.
2) I don't think the goal is to turn very casual fans into religious fans. I think the goal is rather make some more modest gains in interest.
3) You need to talk to more casual fans about game length rather than 50+ year old hardcore fans. It's a factor for the casual folk.
4) I think the actual "problem" is the length of the season combined with the length of games. It's just hard for many folks to give consistent attention to that.
5) On the A&M board, there is a monthly revelation that shocks people---2 hour women's softball games get as much TV money, attention, and viewership as 3 hour men's baseball games. I wonder why...
1) Hard for me to believe the length of the game is a part of "millions'" love of the game.
2) I don't think the goal is to turn very casual fans into religious fans. I think the goal is rather make some more modest gains in interest.
3) You need to talk to more casual fans about game length rather than 50+ year old hardcore fans. It's a factor for the casual folk.
4) I think the actual "problem" is the length of the season combined with the length of games. It's just hard for many folks to give consistent attention to that.
5) On the A&M board, there is a monthly revelation that shocks people---2 hour women's softball games get as much TV money, attention, and viewership as 3 hour men's baseball games. I wonder why...
Baseball is a thinking man's game. If you speed everything up and take the thinking and strategy out of it, baseball will lose it's integrity. People don't have a problem with football games being 4 hours and there only being 12 minutes of actual game play.aggie1906 said:
2. Pitch clocks. Stop farting around and throw the damn ball. It was magic watching Roy O work. Dude would catch and be ready to fire it back home.
3. Get in the damn box and swing. Home ump would be tasked with keeping the game moving. If the batter was being excessive between pitches then he would be warned. If it continued then the ump gives the go ahead to the pitcher to throw.
Balls and strikes called by computer, but that will NEVER happen.
Limit relief pitchers to 3 warm up pitches when they get called on.
Limit relief pitchers to 3 warm up pitches when they get called on.
Before I am ready to resort to computers calling balls and strikes I think they should first come up with a system that holds umpires accountable.
I like the human aspect when it comes to things like a pitcher nailing his spot on the corner and i's just off but gets called anyways. It's the blatant missed calls and inconsistency that irks me.
There has to be a way or system to keep stats on these guys like we do players and when they reach a certain low score they get bumped for a new guy. The umpire's correct call percentage gets posted on TV like a player's stat line.
I like the human aspect when it comes to things like a pitcher nailing his spot on the corner and i's just off but gets called anyways. It's the blatant missed calls and inconsistency that irks me.
There has to be a way or system to keep stats on these guys like we do players and when they reach a certain low score they get bumped for a new guy. The umpire's correct call percentage gets posted on TV like a player's stat line.
There is a difference in looking at TV rating on ESPN and looking at local stations who broadcast 162 games. No one wants to watch the games on ESPN because it is the same 6 teams who play every Wednesday and Sunday night.
Also, I am only 19, so most people I talk to are my age or my parents age (18-45). Most people who care about baseball as much as I, don't want to see any of the big changes take place. I like the 1:30 between half innings, and the shortened warm-up time for pitchers, but playing the game for 14 years, there has to be the stepping in and out of the box, mound visits, taking signs... it's what makes the players comfortable.
Also, I am only 19, so most people I talk to are my age or my parents age (18-45). Most people who care about baseball as much as I, don't want to see any of the big changes take place. I like the 1:30 between half innings, and the shortened warm-up time for pitchers, but playing the game for 14 years, there has to be the stepping in and out of the box, mound visits, taking signs... it's what makes the players comfortable.
Just because it works for football doesn't mean it's best for baseball. There are all sorts of different dynamics and factors in play when comparing popularity of sports.
Football nevertheless has still made some efforts to speed the game up since its offensive explosion started making games so long.
A fan of a football team is asked to pay attention about 12 to 16 weekends a year, that doesn't hurt, either.
Football nevertheless has still made some efforts to speed the game up since its offensive explosion started making games so long.
A fan of a football team is asked to pay attention about 12 to 16 weekends a year, that doesn't hurt, either.
I also think the NFL owes a lot of it's success to fantasy football. If it wasn't for fantasy football (and gambling in general) football wouldn't be near as popular.
I'm am not talking about rushing people. Some people are just excessive with the time between pitches. I want to eliminate that.979ag said:Baseball is a thinking man's game. If you speed everything up and take the thinking and strategy out of it, baseball will lose it's integrity. People don't have a problem with football games being 4 hours and there only being 12 minutes of actual game play.aggie1906 said:
2. Pitch clocks. Stop farting around and throw the damn ball. It was magic watching Roy O work. Dude would catch and be ready to fire it back home.
3. Get in the damn box and swing. Home ump would be tasked with keeping the game moving. If the batter was being excessive between pitches then he would be warned. If it continued then the ump gives the go ahead to the pitcher to throw.
Tennis is a thinking game too, they've cracked down on times between serves and it's worked.
No one is saying no thinking. But training guys via rule change and enforcement to figure out what to do next pitch without taking an additional 10 seconds to undo and redo the Velcro on their batting gloves then spit, then walk back in the box...it's doable.
No one is saying no thinking. But training guys via rule change and enforcement to figure out what to do next pitch without taking an additional 10 seconds to undo and redo the Velcro on their batting gloves then spit, then walk back in the box...it's doable.
But like I said before, people are going to enjoy baseball or they are not. Summer is the best time for me because I know as soon as I come home from work the Stros are fixing to start. It's something entertaining every night. If someone isn't a fan of how it is now, shortening the games/season isn't going to draw that fan in. That fan wants to see the big games, and the big moments. It's easy for football only being 16 games, you have a whole week to get excited for it. Make baseball a 16 game season and I bet it would be a huge and exciting sport, but it wouldn't be played how the sport should be played.
Ag_07 said:
I also think the NFL owes a lot of it's success to fantasy football. If it wasn't for fantasy football (and gambling in general) football wouldn't be near as popular.
The NFL is a marketing monster and Sunday's are an "event." It helps there are only about 17 of them a regular season.
I'm not saying shorten the baseball season. I'm just saying the baseball season is long and can be a slog and it's not comparable to football.
And shave off 3 minutes at the end of the game? Player's have their own routine that they have been doing since High School. There's no reason to destroy a player's comfort just to save 5 minutes.aggie1906 said:I'm am not talking about rushing people. Some people are just excessive with the time between pitches. I want to eliminate that.979ag said:Baseball is a thinking man's game. If you speed everything up and take the thinking and strategy out of it, baseball will lose it's integrity. People don't have a problem with football games being 4 hours and there only being 12 minutes of actual game play.aggie1906 said:
2. Pitch clocks. Stop farting around and throw the damn ball. It was magic watching Roy O work. Dude would catch and be ready to fire it back home.
3. Get in the damn box and swing. Home ump would be tasked with keeping the game moving. If the batter was being excessive between pitches then he would be warned. If it continued then the ump gives the go ahead to the pitcher to throw.
It's because they are two different sports though. If you tried modeling everything after one model, there would be no personality between the sports. Before you know it people are going to star complaining about golf rounds being too long and they need to shorted the course to 15 holes for more competition and faster rounds.TXAggie2011 said:
I'm saying shorten the baseball season. I'm just saying the baseball season is long and can be a slog and it's not comparable to football.
Nothing personal here, because I think we all want the same thing, but I've seen this mentioned a few times over the years, and I just don't think it's a good idea. First, those five extra pitches take maybe an extra minute for each reliever. You might have three pitching changes per game that don't occur at the half-inning commercial break. That's three extra minutes. Drop in the bucket. Second, those pitches aren't just for warming up their arms (you didn't say it in your post, but I've seen others say 'they're already warm from the bullpen anyway'). Those pitches are also about getting synced up with the catcher and getting a feel for the mound._lefraud_ said:
Limit relief pitchers to 3 warm up pitches when they get called on.
By stepping out of the box, removing his helmet, and gazing into the sky after every single pitch, Marwin wastes way more time than any relief pitcher throwing five extra pitches ever could.
With all that said, I think the current rate of play is fine. That's just baseball. I also don't think the game needs "saving". But I will say that I'd love to see electronic balls and strikes, assuming the system could be perfected based on the definition of the strike zone as it relates to each individual batter's size.
979ag said:It's because they are two different sports though. If you tried modeling everything after one model, there would be no personality between the sports. Before you know it people are going to star complaining about golf rounds being too long and they need to shorted the course to 18 holes for more competition and faster rounds.TXAggie2011 said:
I'm saying shorten the baseball season. I'm just saying the baseball season is long and can be a slog and it's not comparable to football.
It appears the "not" got deleted when I typed that up. I'm not saying shorten the season. Sorry about that.
And like I said, you can't model baseball off of football. That's true.
I think there are some health risks tied to relievers getting to throw pitches. I think you look to other things to help shorten games.
Maybe we just need more catchers like Hank Conger to tell people to get in the ****ing box.
I would limit mound visits to 2 a game (and would include any visit, from a player or coach), with an injury situation being an exception. All pitching changes would just be signaled from the dugout and dugout phone unless the manager wanted to use 1 of his visits in connection with the pitching change. I think that would help speed up a lot of games because most games begin to stall in the later innings when there are so many visits and pitching changes.
You could honestly make an argument that the season should be longer to see who the actual best teams are to be in the playoffs. How many times have we seen teams 7 games back with a month to play make a run and sneak into the playoffs. Every year the wild card and 1 or 2 divisions are decided by one game. 162 games is enough, if not, not-enough games.
979ag said:
You could honestly make an argument that the season should be longer to see who the actual best teams are to be in the playoffs. How many times have we seen teams 7 games back with a month to play make a run and sneak into the playoffs. Every year the wild card and 1 or 2 divisions are decided by one game. 162 games is enough, if not, not-enough games.
No way I believe that this is true, but I am just saying from a logical standpoint. Shoot, it took Tampa Bay 163 games to get in the playoffs a few years ago.
Like other have said, I would limit the trips to the mounds. The pace of the game in general is fine. It's the 8th inning six trip segments that slow it down. Give a starter 2 total, pull them on a third. A reliever gets one max, pull on the second. I would count a visit as any meeting between coach, catcher, infielder, squirrel, you name it. I would also cut the reliever warm up pitches to 2. Maybe 3. They are warm and ready. That's what they just spent the last 5 minutes doing. For the majority of games this won't matter. But for the odd times where you have 6 changes in 3 innings it will make a huge difference.
The other thing is MLB needs to get their act together with umpires and their strike zones. They are going to miss pitches. That's reality. But there have to be ways to show them electronically just how bad they miss sometimes and have them work to correct it.
The other thing is MLB needs to get their act together with umpires and their strike zones. They are going to miss pitches. That's reality. But there have to be ways to show them electronically just how bad they miss sometimes and have them work to correct it.
Umpires can be fooled just as easily as the hitters. Missed pitches are gonna happen. Pitcher's aren't throwing for the umpire to call the batter out, pitcher's are throwing for the batter to get himself out.mathguy86 said:
The other thing is MLB needs to get their act together with umpires and their strike zones. They are going to miss pitches. That's reality. But there have to be ways to show them electronically just how bad they miss sometimes and have them work to correct it.
going to have to disagree here. There is a very significant difference between a 2 hour & 45 minute game vs. a 4 hour & 30 minute game. Especially when it's a night game. And even more so with all the downtown ballparks...when most fans live in the suburbs979ag said:
Okay, so here is my rant, I hope all read...
Baseball is Baseball, and always will be Baseball. People who love baseball, and admire the game for what it is, do not care if a game is a 2 hour 45 min 2-1 game, or a 4.5 hour 10-8 game, they are going to watch the whole thing. I myself, watch every pitch of the every Astros game, unless I just absolutely can't because I am busy. BUT, like myself, I know that there are millions of fans who care that much for their teams that they are going to watch almost every game, and watch ALL of almost every game. THIS FAN JUST WANTS TO WATCH BASEBALL, they do not care about the time length of a game.
Coors Fieldmike_ags_fan12 said:
And boost ratings?
Put a clock? Limit extra innings?
I think a fan would enjoy seeing Mike Trout go 3-3 with 2HR and 6RBI in a 10-8 win if the game went 4.5 hours. That was the point I was trying to get at lol
That's what I said. They are going to miss pitches. It's all about helping them minimize that afterwards.979ag said:Umpires can be fooled just as easily as the hitters. Missed pitches are gonna happen. Pitcher's aren't throwing for the umpire to call the batter out, pitcher's are throwing for the batter to get himself out.mathguy86 said:
The other thing is MLB needs to get their act together with umpires and their strike zones. They are going to miss pitches. That's reality. But there have to be ways to show them electronically just how bad they miss sometimes and have them work to correct it.
And some guys aren't being fooled. They are just bad at it. Witness everybody's favorite, Angel Hernandez.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-worst-called-strike-of-the-first-half-3/
Guys like Angel that are just not good need to be put on the clock. Improve or get out.
The mound visits are one of the things that I think have gotten out of hand. The catcher shouldn't need to go talk to the pitcher every time a runner makes it to 2nd for the first time in the inning. You've got the entire offensive half inning to figure out if you're throwing the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd sign.
As far as disrupting players' routines, I would venture to guess that any time restrictions would only impact a small percentage of players, and most people already know who they are. Marwin was mentioned above. I love him, but his routine in between pitches is tiresome. A pitcher with a long-ass routine between every pitch is even worse as you get to deal with it the whole time they're in the game. I don't care if you have been doing the same 20-30 second routine since high school, learn to adjust. Better yet, emphasize it on every level so kids stop picking up those habits.
Then there are the avoidable wastes of time like a pitcher and batter getting in a stare-down because the pitcher doesn't want to throw the pitch called, eventually leading to the batter calling time. If you don't like the pitch, get off the rubber and get a new sign.
Football and baseball will never be the same since football has a set time limit that you have to achieve results by whereas baseball can go forever if you can't get outs. I love baseball, but there are times where a few players and/or managers make watching a game an absolute beating. You'll never get every single game to be exactly 3 hours, +/- 5 min. like the NFL, and I know we'll never get to having every game be like a Roy-O night, but if you could just make the pace of play consistent, that would go a long way to addressing the time issues.
As far as disrupting players' routines, I would venture to guess that any time restrictions would only impact a small percentage of players, and most people already know who they are. Marwin was mentioned above. I love him, but his routine in between pitches is tiresome. A pitcher with a long-ass routine between every pitch is even worse as you get to deal with it the whole time they're in the game. I don't care if you have been doing the same 20-30 second routine since high school, learn to adjust. Better yet, emphasize it on every level so kids stop picking up those habits.
Then there are the avoidable wastes of time like a pitcher and batter getting in a stare-down because the pitcher doesn't want to throw the pitch called, eventually leading to the batter calling time. If you don't like the pitch, get off the rubber and get a new sign.
Football and baseball will never be the same since football has a set time limit that you have to achieve results by whereas baseball can go forever if you can't get outs. I love baseball, but there are times where a few players and/or managers make watching a game an absolute beating. You'll never get every single game to be exactly 3 hours, +/- 5 min. like the NFL, and I know we'll never get to having every game be like a Roy-O night, but if you could just make the pace of play consistent, that would go a long way to addressing the time issues.
I'd limit extra innings to 3. If still tied, 10 pitch HR derby. Keeps a clock out of a game and it's entertains
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