Why on earth is this thread getting buried?
HOU@TEX Trash Talking Thread
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Last: 4 yr ago by Charlie Conway
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quote:
Why on earth is this thread getting buried?
As a reflection of the Houston Astros?
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Dead and buried
I have no idea how to post pictures so can someone make a gif of a fork into the astros logo ?
Local radio in Houston has stopped mentioning the standings after the Astros score. I guess they've reached acceptance.
quote:Hell, 5 years ago when I interned in Houston for the summer local sports radio wouldn't even acknowledge the existence of the Astros. People would call in to talk about the Astros and they'd say "I don't know what you're talking about" and then go back to reminiscing about Hakeem Olajuwon.
Local radio in Houston has stopped mentioning the standings after the Astros score. I guess they've reached acceptance.
They were also pretty jazzed up about the Houston Aeros, who played for (and of course lost) whatever the minor league hockey championship is and then promptly moved to BFE, Iowa. Houston is a sad sad sports town.
Astros closer to the Athletics in the standings than the Rangers.
This has to go down as one of the most useless "rivalries" thread in Texags history.
This has to go down as one of the most useless "rivalries" thread in Texags history.
Are they one more Cavs championship away from being the worst sports city in America?
Why are we talking about baseball. Hockey starts soon!
Astros collapse is impressive even by Houston standards.
Didn't the Houston newspaper post an article about how Houston was better when the lead was down to 2.5 a month ago or so?
quote:I had seen a post on the astros thread a week or so ago claiming that they were probably more talented than the Rangers. But, it's understandable when you look at a 72-50 record (2nd best in baseball) and chalk it up to luck.
Didn't the Houston newspaper post an article about how Houston was better when the lead was down to 2.5 a month ago or so?
One of their idiot pitchers said that they are more talented than the Rangers.
And he said it immediately following one of the many times the Rangers beat the Astros.
And he said it immediately following one of the many times the Rangers beat the Astros.
quote:How so? They are a .500 team. They've been a .500 team.
Astros collapse is impressive even by Houston standards.
quote:This. I noticed it last year as well. After their 18-7 start (going into series w/ Rangers), they were 68-69 the rest of the way. This year, they are 61-59. That's a 129-128 record over the past 257 games.quote:How so? They are a .500 team. They've been a .500 team.
Astros collapse is impressive even by Houston standards.
Now, take the Rangers over the same timeframe. After their 8-16 start (going into series w/ Astros), they were 80-58 the rest of the way. This year, they are 72-50. That's a 152-108 record over the past 260 games.
They are what they are, which is a .500 ballclub. They certainly have some very high-end talent, but no depth or balance. Their future is bright w/ the right moves, but right now they are an average ballclub that can get very hot and very cold at times.
The fact is that the Astros, regardless of the success last year, are a still a developing team. The vets (Springer, Altuve, and Correa) are still very young and the supporting cast is mostly rookies. Their future depends on keeping and developing the young talent.
They're still 1-2 years out
The Rangers on the other hand are a team built to win now. Their anchors are vets with playoff experience (Beltre, Andrus, Hamels, Beltran). Their window is now and they are taking full advantage of that. Their future depends on replacing the older guys and keeping the talent coming in. I still think Daniels did a such a incredible job at the deadline not giving up Profar, Mazara, and/or Gallo. That was ridiculous.
They're still 1-2 years out
The Rangers on the other hand are a team built to win now. Their anchors are vets with playoff experience (Beltre, Andrus, Hamels, Beltran). Their window is now and they are taking full advantage of that. Their future depends on replacing the older guys and keeping the talent coming in. I still think Daniels did a such a incredible job at the deadline not giving up Profar, Mazara, and/or Gallo. That was ridiculous.
The Rangers are a team to compete the last few years, this year, and the future. That's the beauty of a great front office -- they don't have to tank 4 years in hopes of maybe being competitive 6 years later.
quote:
Didn't the Houston newspaper post an article about how Houston was better when the lead was down to 2.5 a month ago or so?
C/LOL? You living under a rock. Hometown newspaper writes a positive story about hometown team. Who **cking knew.
quote:Can't disagree at all with this. I live and work in Houston so most of my coworkers are Astros fans. We have talked about this often, and my point has been the same. The Astros need 2-3 consistent veteran bats in that lineup to go w/ Correa/Altuve/Springer. Guys that hit .275 - .290. I thought someone like someone like Zobrist would have been perfect in that lineup, but with Maddon in Chicago it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he'd end up there.
The fact is that the Astros, regardless of the success last year, are a still a developing team. The vets (Springer, Altuve, and Correa) are still very young and the supporting cast is mostly rookies. Their future depends on keeping and developing the young talent.
They're still 1-2 years out
The Rangers on the other hand are a team built to win now. Their anchors are vets with playoff experience (Beltre, Andrus, Hamels, Beltran). Their window is now and they are taking full advantage of that. Their future depends on replacing the older guys and keeping the talent coming in. I still think Daniels did a such a incredible job at the deadline not giving up Profar, Mazara, and/or Gallo. That was ridiculous.
The Rangers have done a fantastic job of bringing in young guys, but having them surrounded by established veterans. And not just throwaway guys, but guys with resumes that include all-star games. Hopefully by the time the veterans start leaving, the young guys will become that wave of veterans that will surround the next batch of up-and-comers.
They've been able to do this while maintaining a top-10 to top-15 farm system. Really, the biggest weakness they have for the future is the lack of TOTR arms in the minors, but w/ JD at the helm, I really don't think the window is as short as some may think.
I kind of started pounding on the Astros, but I'll point out that Jon Daniels was given 4 or 5 years to get the Rangers into the playoffs and that over the past 3 or so years, the Rangers have achieved nothing more in the post-season than the Astros.
This has been a season of separation between the franchises, but if the young core of the Astros really does make this team a perennial contender, then they could catch up pretty quick. The Rangers haven't quite matched what, to make an AL West comparsion, the Angels of the 2000s? (5 division titles plus a World Series victory in 8 years).
If the Astros become a more consistent Washington Nationals franchise, then look out.
I do think it is disingenuous to say the Astros just trotted out a bunch of rookies. They have had some veterans have some pretty terrible seasons.
This has been a season of separation between the franchises, but if the young core of the Astros really does make this team a perennial contender, then they could catch up pretty quick. The Rangers haven't quite matched what, to make an AL West comparsion, the Angels of the 2000s? (5 division titles plus a World Series victory in 8 years).
If the Astros become a more consistent Washington Nationals franchise, then look out.
I do think it is disingenuous to say the Astros just trotted out a bunch of rookies. They have had some veterans have some pretty terrible seasons.
quote:Yes, but only looking at the last 3 years ignores the fact that JD built a team that won back-to-back AL pennants. Plus they did it while going through bankruptcy proceedings.
but I'll point out that Jon Daniels was given 4 or 5 years to get the Rangers into the playoffs and that over the past 3 or so years, the Rangers have achieved nothing more in the post-season than the Astros.
quote:Agreed, but it remains to be seen if they are willing to spend the money necessary to make that happen. The Nationals have a top 10 payroll. Guys like Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel, McCullers, etc will eventually start reaching their contract years, and some of those guys are going to cost a ton.
If the Astros become a more consistent Washington Nationals franchise, then look out.
quote:I don't think anyone has said they've just trotted out a bunch of rookies. Of course they've had veterans, but they are all basically journeymen and spare parts.
I do think it is disingenuous to say the Astros just trotted out a bunch of rookies. They have had some veterans have some pretty terrible seasons.
Cheap owner, the park not exactly filling up for a young layoff team expected to continue to improve, and Lunhow getting schooled in two straight trade deadlines raises a lot of questions as whether they'll be willing and able to make the right moves to get over the hump. It's right there with a couple of key signings (or the right trade).
The problem with the "young core" of any team is that it's a 3-4 year window until they start costing a lot of money, so unless the Astros are willing to pony up to have a Top 10 team payroll (and no indication has been given that they are willing to do that), then they are going to have to consistently hit on their prospects and very few (if any) teams are able to do that.
The difference between the Astros and the Nationals is that the Nats will spend a Top 15 payroll... And even with that, they haven't even PLAYED in a NLCS.
By all accounts the Astros were a year ahead of schedule last year and were primed this year to really make a run... Yet they trotted out another small market payroll. Either ownership thought all the young guys would all produce and all the "meh" veterans would still at least be "meh", or they didn't want to increase payroll.
So the front office is either stupid or stingy. Not a recipe for success.
All this talk of a Rangers "window" is just an attempt for the Astros fans to feel better about down seasons. Texas will have averaged 88 wins over an 8 year span.
The 2009 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Kevin Millwood, Scott Feldman, Derek Holland, Tommy Hunter and Vicente Padilla.
The 2011 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: CJ Wilson, Colby Lewis, Derek Holland, Matt Harrison, Alexi Ogando.
The 2013 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Yu Darvish, Derek Holland, Martin Perez, Alexi Ogando, Nick Tepesch
The 2015 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Colby Lewis, Yovani Gallardo, Nick Martinez, Martin Perez, Wandy Rodriguez
That's not a "window". That's sustained success, and it comes from an intelligent front office and ownership willing to spend money -- not a 4 year average of 100+ loss baseball (2011-2014) just so that *MAYBE* you'll finally win a division title in 2017.
The difference between the Astros and the Nationals is that the Nats will spend a Top 15 payroll... And even with that, they haven't even PLAYED in a NLCS.
By all accounts the Astros were a year ahead of schedule last year and were primed this year to really make a run... Yet they trotted out another small market payroll. Either ownership thought all the young guys would all produce and all the "meh" veterans would still at least be "meh", or they didn't want to increase payroll.
So the front office is either stupid or stingy. Not a recipe for success.
All this talk of a Rangers "window" is just an attempt for the Astros fans to feel better about down seasons. Texas will have averaged 88 wins over an 8 year span.
The 2009 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Kevin Millwood, Scott Feldman, Derek Holland, Tommy Hunter and Vicente Padilla.
The 2011 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: CJ Wilson, Colby Lewis, Derek Holland, Matt Harrison, Alexi Ogando.
The 2013 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Yu Darvish, Derek Holland, Martin Perez, Alexi Ogando, Nick Tepesch
The 2015 pitching staff Top 5 in starts consisted of: Colby Lewis, Yovani Gallardo, Nick Martinez, Martin Perez, Wandy Rodriguez
That's not a "window". That's sustained success, and it comes from an intelligent front office and ownership willing to spend money -- not a 4 year average of 100+ loss baseball (2011-2014) just so that *MAYBE* you'll finally win a division title in 2017.
Retired,
Not ignoring the pennants, just making the point the Rangers haven't necessarily yet been that kind of dynastic all example of consistency. They're certainly a good franchise over the past 7, 8 years but the Astros still have that chance too, they're not much further into the timeline.
It's getting stretched out further than the Rangers but they're obviously trying to get that core that will be there and be that consistent presence in the post season.
Obviously it totally remains to be seen if the Astros can fill in the gaps around the core and actually be that franchise.
I think they've put some decent resources and money into some of their veterans that have totally crashed and burned. They're not spending huge but you have to say it's disappointing what they've gotten from Gomez, Rasmus, et. al.
In sum, I do think JD has done a solid job with Texas and right now, they're clearly out ahead of the Astros. But you can see what the Astros are thinking and doing. Remains to be seen if they can actually do it.
Not ignoring the pennants, just making the point the Rangers haven't necessarily yet been that kind of dynastic all example of consistency. They're certainly a good franchise over the past 7, 8 years but the Astros still have that chance too, they're not much further into the timeline.
It's getting stretched out further than the Rangers but they're obviously trying to get that core that will be there and be that consistent presence in the post season.
Obviously it totally remains to be seen if the Astros can fill in the gaps around the core and actually be that franchise.
I think they've put some decent resources and money into some of their veterans that have totally crashed and burned. They're not spending huge but you have to say it's disappointing what they've gotten from Gomez, Rasmus, et. al.
In sum, I do think JD has done a solid job with Texas and right now, they're clearly out ahead of the Astros. But you can see what the Astros are thinking and doing. Remains to be seen if they can actually do it.
Mhayden, we can talk in circles all week about whether the Astros will spend the money necessary to turn their "window" into whatever it is that he Rangers have.
They either will, or they won't.
I think the assumption is they'll spend on their young stars when the time comes, but either they will or they won't.
Should they have splurged already on free agents? I don't know. You've said many times in the Astros defense, when it suited you to do so, that they were ahead of schedule so perhaps you personally don't think it's that time yet.
They will, or they won't. We don't know. Bottom line. We'll just have to wait and see.
They either will, or they won't.
I think the assumption is they'll spend on their young stars when the time comes, but either they will or they won't.
Should they have splurged already on free agents? I don't know. You've said many times in the Astros defense, when it suited you to do so, that they were ahead of schedule so perhaps you personally don't think it's that time yet.
They will, or they won't. We don't know. Bottom line. We'll just have to wait and see.
quote:I get your point, but just want to address the "example of consistency" comment. This is a franchise that has either finished 1st or 2nd in the West every year but one since 2008. That one year they didn't they were also the most injured team in the history of baseball in terms of games missed. So, over a 9 year stretch, they are looking to win their 4th division title to go along with 4 2nd place finishes. I'd say that's extremely consistent. The only thing they haven't done is win it all.
Retired,
Not ignoring the pennants, just making the point the Rangers haven't necessarily yet been that kind of dynastic all example of consistency. They're certainly a good franchise over the past 7, 8 years but the Astros still have that chance too, they're not much further into the timeline.
We also aren't talking about the Yankees here. Those results would be unacceptable to some fan bases, but for an organization that had only gone to the playoffs 3 times in their history prior to 2010, then that is an amazing level of success.
quote:As a fan of the game, I'm really high on the Astros future, so please don't get me wrong. I hate them, especially as a division rival, but it was obvious what they were doing and I've been a fan of how they've gone about it until this past offseason. They were really just a few parts away from having a special team this year, but they essentially stood still in the offseason and at the trade deadline. That's what would give me concern, if I were an Astros fan, about whether the organization is willing to spend.
It's getting stretched out further than the Rangers but they're obviously trying to get that core that will be there and be that consistent presence in the post season.
Obviously it totally remains to be seen if the Astros can fill in the gaps around the core and actually be that franchise.
quote:Meh, was never a fan of Rasmus at all. Gomez, on the other hand, was surprising. But none of the vets have ever been the kind that I'd want to surround my core young players with. Despite how poor his time in Texas went, by all accounts Prince was a tremendous teammate, especially with the young guys. Having guys like Choo, Fielder, Beltre, Andrus, and Hamels is invaluable. These guys aren't spare parts or journeymen.
I think they've put some decent resources and money into some of their veterans that have totally crashed and burned. They're not spending huge but you have to say it's disappointing what they've gotten from Gomez, Rasmus, et. al.
quote:And y'all better worry about Oakland.quote:Better worry about the Mariners.quote:
No runs and seven hits (4 for Beltre) over 2 games? That is some poor sequencing.
quote:
Mhayden, we can talk in circles all week about whether the Astros will spend the money necessary to turn their "window" into whatever it is that he Rangers have.
They either will, or they won't.
I think the assumption is they'll spend on their young stars when the time comes, but either they will or they won't.
Should they have splurged already on free agents? I don't know. You've said many times in the Astros defense, when it suited you to do so, that they were ahead of schedule so perhaps you personally don't think it's that time yet.
They will, or they won't. We don't know. Bottom line. We'll just have to wait and see.
My point was last year they were ahead of schedule, and for the most part (aside from the teasing about totally crashing and burning in regards to the division) you saw me give them credit. Add a couple of key pieces in free agency and I'd certainly think they were poised for a good 3-4 year run.
But then 2016 free agency came and they went out and got... Doug Fister on a 1-year deal?
Ok, so maybe they are keeping the powder dry and are going to make a big splash at the deadline... Nope.
So either the front office was overly confident before the 2016 season, or they were stingy.... And then the same front office at the deadline was overly doubtful at the trade deadline, or they were stingy.
And then to make matters worse you have Lunhow basically come out and scoff at those silly Rangers for trading away some top prospects for "no guarantee" that Beltran and Lucroy will be worth it.
And now you've got Lunhow coming out almost crying about how "if it weren't for those mean 'ole no-trade clauses than Cole Hamels might have been an Astro and Lucroy never would have been a Ranger!"
It's like he's taken a page from run-differential fanboys on this thread and trying to win the "well if things would have gone how they should have!" game.
Well Jeff maybe if you didn't tank your ballclub for FOUR YEARS then a player like Cole Hamels wouldn't veto a trade to you!
Are the Astros poised to win with young talent? Yes.
Should they be lauded for it? No. They got that young talent by sucking for 4 years. Any team could have done the same.
Call me when they actually do something with it in the time frame they have before a New York or a Boston poaches that talent in free agency. The clock is ticking.
Altuve will be a fascinating case for them. I know they have club options for '18 and '19, so they have 3 seasons to lock him up long-term. But the way he is trending, he's going to possibly be the most coveted FA if he hits the market. Do teams low-ball at him because of his size? Does he love Houston so much that he'll give them a hometown discount?
The guy is an insanely good hitter, so his FA value will be through the roof. The fact that he just switched back to Boras would make me very nervous if I were an Astros fan, as Boras likes for his clients to hit the FA market.
The guy is an insanely good hitter, so his FA value will be through the roof. The fact that he just switched back to Boras would make me very nervous if I were an Astros fan, as Boras likes for his clients to hit the FA market.
From an Astro fan...Pretty well said.
And on top of that, the obsession we (the front office and some of my brethren) have with prospects is absurd. They take pride in having a stacked farm while the ML club struggles.
They've got to find a way to turn those prospects into big league assets either through successful trades or successful development. Only time will tell, and in my opinion the clock is ticking and they are running out of it. Not saying the timer is going off now, but it's got one, maybe two more years left for me.
And on top of that, the obsession we (the front office and some of my brethren) have with prospects is absurd. They take pride in having a stacked farm while the ML club struggles.
They've got to find a way to turn those prospects into big league assets either through successful trades or successful development. Only time will tell, and in my opinion the clock is ticking and they are running out of it. Not saying the timer is going off now, but it's got one, maybe two more years left for me.
quote:
Do teams low-ball at him because of his size?
Most ruhtarded thing said on this entire thread. And that's saying something.
He low-balls himself every time he visits the clubhouse urinal.
quote:So you think some teams won't be apprehensive about his size before handing out a massive contract? No worries about his sustainability given his size? He's not the prototypical size and I could certainly see him not getting the same offer he would if he were 6 ft tall.quote:
Do teams low-ball at him because of his size?
Most ruhtarded thing said on this entire thread. And that's saying something.
Maybe I'm wrong, and it's certainly not a knock on him. I'm a huge fan of what he's done. Makes it easier to be a fan when he's doing it on a 3rd place team.
